Opinion 2024 and Beyond

[Nuggetz]

Florent. Lloyd , Reid and Hayward out - half a dozen jam donuts in.

lloyd? why him?

 

[SuperMal]

lloyd? why him?

Tbh, he was on the edge…I think he’s lost his ‘tank’ - competes well when the ball comes to him…but the dash is gone, as is the decision making.

 

[SuperMal]

Oppo coaches will defend it next year. Will he still be effective at centre bounces?

Probably not…too small - sound familiar?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

No. Papley playing in the mids at all is a sign that our current midfield just is not good enough. Papley is an AA forward and you don't stick AA small forwards in the midfield unless something has gone wrong. You never saw Betts and Milne in the midfield like Papley has been.

You never see Toby Greene in the middle either.

 

[Nuggetz]

Tbh, he was on the edge…I think he’s lost his ‘tank’ - competes well when the ball comes to him…but the dash is gone, as is the decision making.

Don't agree with it. Thought lloyd was one of our better players this year.

 

[Nuggetz]

I want our players to be like rabid dogs hunting after the ball. I don't really care about tackle pressure, just want us to win the ball first. All out attack on the footy. Like this bloke...

 

[SuperMal]

Don't agree with it. Thought lloyd was one of our better players this year.

You’re welcome - I’ll go so far to say his game this year was probably restricted by Florent’s incompetence.

However - his ‘tank’ is a clear issue, as it is with Parker.

 

[Dubsforsam1]

Get in McKay if for no other reason than Blakey never has to play KPD again.
Get Grundy in so we have a physical Ruckman who will win more HO's and reduce the opposition opportunities.
Pick Heeney as either a midfielder or a forward and leave him there. Myself I'd love to see Heeney playing out of the square.

 

[SuperMal]

Get in McKay if for no other reason than Blakey never has to play KPD again.
Get Grundy in so we have a physical Ruckman who will win more HO's and reduce the opposition opportunities.
Pick Heeney as either a midfielder or a forward and leave him there. Myself I'd love to see Heeney playing out of the square.

Do we think Heeney has the stamina to be a key on-baller?

I wonder if he’s more a ‘Vo Rogue’ than a ‘Wicks’ .

 

[DobmusEdge]

It's odd though that every inside mid that has been suggested we look at trading in this year has been shot down with the notion that he would take the place of A, B or C. Issue is that A, B & C haven't got the job done this year.

It’s not personnel that’s the issue. Need a shakeup with the midfield/stoppage coaching

 

[Nuggetz]

Do we think Heeney has the stamina to be a key on-baller?

I wonder if he’s more a ‘Vo Rogue’ than a ‘Wicks’ .

Apparently his 2 way running is elite. I don't think stamina is the issue with heeney.

 

[Callipygian]

We have the nucleus of a side reaching their primes around 2025/26 - so I’m confident we are still on an upward trajectory.

Sheldrick will add to our midfield grunt, as might Roberts.

We do, however, need a serviceable ruck (which may or not be Ladhams).

And whilst a KPD is required, the need for a high calibre small defender has also become apparent. The next Nick Smith. It’s not actually the opposition talls hurting us - it’s the crafty smalls.

I don’t expect huge things in the trade period, but a ruck would fill me renewed hope.

I like and broadly agree with your post, DQ. The part of your post that most caught my attention is your statement about our need for a small defender. It wasn't a need showing up big time on my radar but it piques thought. What are the stats (or memories) that illuminate this need for you? I don't remember Charlie Cameron or Izak Rankine or Kozzie Pickett taking us apart. Toby Greene caused us some pain but he is a high quality player and did that to a few teams. Is my memory just sparing my blushes? I haven't bothered trying to research stats.

I think Harry C has been great in that small defender role this year (after his brief spell forward). Not sure how long we can continue to depend on Harry, but fortunately we brought in Vickery specifically to play this type of role and I'm bullish on him (prematurely, I know). Rankin was another possibility but I am not bullish on him - does not apply enough pressure or lockdown effectively enough is my impression. I'm ready to delist Rankin. Is this a role that Florent could learn? Ollie's got the speed and agility, he would just need to focus more on the defensive and less on the offensive. The fact that he could offer some rebound as well is a bonus. If Harry's form falls away and Vickery isn't ready (or doesn't work out) then I would consider Florent to play that role. I think it would be a waste of Konstanty's talent to get him to play the small defender role but I suspect he could do it. I hope Konstanty stays up forward and has a solid year in the VFL with a smattering of opportunities at AFL level in 2024.

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

I like and broadly agree with your post, DQ. The part of your post that most caught my attention is your statement about our need for a small defender. It wasn't a need showing up big time on my radar but it piques thought. What are the stats (or memories) that illuminate this need for you? I don't remember Charlie Cameron or Izak Rankine or Kozzie Pickett taking us apart. Toby Greene caused us some pain but he is a high quality player and did that to a few teams. Is my memory just sparing my blushes? I haven't bothered trying to research stats.

I think Harry C has been great in that small defender role this year (after his brief spell forward). Not sure how long we can continue to depend on Harry, but fortunately we brought in Vickery specifically to play this type of role and I'm bullish on him (prematurely, I know). Rankin was another possibility but I am not bullish on him - does not apply enough pressure or lockdown effectively enough is my impression. I'm ready to delist Rankin. Is this a role that Florent could learn? Ollie's got the speed and agility, he would just need to focus more on the defensive and less on the offensive. The fact that he could offer some rebound as well is a bonus. If Harry's form falls away and Vickery isn't ready (or doesn't work out) then I would consider Florent to play that role. I think it would be a waste of Konstanty's talent to get him to play the small defender role but I suspect he could do it. I hope Konstanty stays up forward and has a solid year in the VFL with a smattering of opportunities at AFL level in 2024.

Agree Cunningham had an exceptional year, so as far as small defenders go, he would be the upper end of the scale in terms of ability to nullify. I mentioned in another thread, I actually don’t recall him being beaten.

Vickery was recruited to fill the need of a small lock down defender and it’s very early in his career to be making a call, hopefully with another preseason there is improvement from his first year.

I actually think JMac needs to be moved to defence to take Florents role, as Jmac can rebound and defend.

We got a snippet of what Jmac could do versus Essendon, he was exceptional back there and will add to the mix already there. He is a lot cleaner and reads the play better than Florent.

 

[dosser]

desperate times call for desperate measures.

Coaches rightly deemed Tommy was more likely to win a clean possession than Parker and Rowey.

I really think everyone gets that.

Papley has been attending centre bounces for years now. I remember 3 or 4 years ago on one of the footy shows they had a graphic showing the % CB clearances when Papley was involved and it was superior to all other combinations that we had (and that was in a midfield including JPK). At that time everyone was screaming that he should be left in the forwards and not rotated through the middle, but the stats said otherwise. I don't think it matters who our mids are, it is just that Papley is that good at CBAs.

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

Papley has been attending centre bounces for years now. I remember 3 or 4 years ago on one of the footy shows they had a graphic showing the % CB clearances when Papley was involved and it was superior to all other combinations that we had (and that was in a midfield including JPK). At that time everyone was screaming that he should be left in the forwards and not rotated through the middle, but the stats said otherwise. I don't think it matters who our mids are, it is just that Papley is that good at CBAs.

Paps was actually brilliant with clearances v Blues.

He is brilliant 1v1 which makes sense why he is good at winning contests.

We need to change up the mix in the midfield to ensure we have competitive beasts contesting for first possession each and every time.

 

[MF]

If you don't get why Papley is in centre bounces you haven't been paying attention to the increased importance of centre bounces or watching closely enough

He won more than any player on the ground on Friday night and Carlton have some of the best contested ball winners in the game.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

He won more than any player on the ground on Friday night and Carlton have some of the best contested ball winners in the game.

Just like grandad Max

 

[Kiama Chris]

I like and broadly agree with your post, DQ. The part of your post that most caught my attention is your statement about our need for a small defender. It wasn't a need showing up big time on my radar but it piques thought. What are the stats (or memories) that illuminate this need for you? I don't remember Charlie Cameron or Izak Rankine or Kozzie Pickett taking us apart. Toby Greene caused us some pain but he is a high quality player and did that to a few teams. Is my memory just sparing my blushes? I haven't bothered trying to research stats.

I think Harry C has been great in that small defender role this year (after his brief spell forward). Not sure how long we can continue to depend on Harry, but fortunately we brought in Vickery specifically to play this type of role and I'm bullish on him (prematurely, I know). Rankin was another possibility but I am not bullish on him - does not apply enough pressure or lockdown effectively enough is my impression. I'm ready to delist Rankin. Is this a role that Florent could learn? Ollie's got the speed and agility, he would just need to focus more on the defensive and less on the offensive. The fact that he could offer some rebound as well is a bonus. If Harry's form falls away and Vickery isn't ready (or doesn't work out) then I would consider Florent to play that role. I think it would be a waste of Konstanty's talent to get him to play the small defender role but I suspect he could do it. I hope Konstanty stays up forward and has a solid year in the VFL with a smattering of opportunities at AFL level in 2024.

I posted previously that Sheather had been getting a run down back and was looking good before getting injured AGAIN. If he survives the cull he might still be a possibility. Very strong and reads the ball well. Coachable.
Can't see Ollie in the role. Doesn't have that singular focus. Agree on Rankin. Hard enough but not tight enough.

 

[Magbrix]

Tbh, he was on the edge…I think he’s lost his ‘tank’ - competes well when the ball comes to him…but the dash is gone, as is the decision making.

I actually agree with this. LLoyd is reliable but its noticible how much he holds up the play coming out of defence compared to Blakey, Florent and Gulden (who TBF is on another planet).

 

[SuperMal]

Agree Cunningham had an exceptional year, so as far as small defenders go, he would be the upper end of the scale in terms of ability to nullify. I mentioned in another thread, I actually don’t recall him being beaten.

Vickery was recruited to fill the need of a small lock down defender and it’s very early in his career to be making a call, hopefully with another preseason there is improvement from his first year.

I actually think JMac needs to be moved to defence to take Florents role, as Jmac can rebound and defend.

We got a snippet of what Jmac could do versus Essendon, he was exceptional back there and will add to the mix already there. He is a lot cleaner and reads the play better than Florent.

This. Florent has lost me - saw him shirk a couple of times this year - reminds me of Dylan Shiel.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

This. Florent has lost me - saw him shirk a couple of times this year - reminds me of Dylan Shiel.

Was close to our best until the bye. May we’ll have been playing sore after that and not helped by having to play every position on the field

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

This. Florent has lost me - saw him shirk a couple of times this year - reminds me of Dylan Shiel.

I think we need to find another role for him, potentially forward as he is a decent kick for goal.

Otherwise potential trade.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I think we need to find another role for him, potentially forward as he is a decent kick for goal.

Otherwise potential trade.

If we are successful in strengthening the playing group some current players will drop down the pecking order. This has happened to Ollie once already when he moved from the midfield/wing back into defence. If we are successful in bringing in McKay then there will be pressure on current members of the back 7 and Ollie will be close to the top of that list.
McCartin McKay Rampe Blakey Lloyd are certain starters. Sure, Rampe is getting on but for now he's still first choice.
That means that 2 spots are being competed for by Cunningham Fox Florent Melican? Francis of players with AFL games and Arnold Edwards Vickery Rankin unblooded. Assumes Gould is delisted.
The preseason will be important to see who gets the inside running for the early games.
I can't see Ollie moving forward in Seniors. It's not that he couldn't do it, but who would he be better than?

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

If we are successful in strengthening the playing group some current players will drop down the pecking order. This has happened to Ollie once already when he moved from the midfield/wing back into defence. If we are successful in bringing in McKay then there will be pressure on current members of the back 7 and Ollie will be close to the top of that list.
McCartin McKay Rampe Blakey Lloyd are certain starters. Sure, Rampe is getting on but for now he's still first choice.
That means that 2 spots are being competed for by Cunningham Fox Florent Melican? Francis of players with AFL games and Arnold Edwards Vickery Rankin unblooded. Assumes Gould is delisted.
The preseason will be important to see who gets the inside running for the early games.
I can't see Ollie moving forward in Seniors. It's not that he couldn't do it, but who would he be better than?

I actually think Jmac should Ollie’s role, potentially Florent goes to the wing again also.

Jmac is a brilliant defender and a decent size too.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

If we are successful in strengthening the playing group some current players will drop down the pecking order. This has happened to Ollie once already when he moved from the midfield/wing back into defence. If we are successful in bringing in McKay then there will be pressure on current members of the back 7 and Ollie will be close to the top of that list.
McCartin McKay Rampe Blakey Lloyd are certain starters. Sure, Rampe is getting on but for now he's still first choice.
That means that 2 spots are being competed for by Cunningham Fox Florent Melican? Francis of players with AFL games and Arnold Edwards Vickery Rankin unblooded. Assumes Gould is delisted.
The preseason will be important to see who gets the inside running for the early games.
I can't see Ollie moving forward in Seniors. It's not that he couldn't do it, but who would he be better than?

Ollie was one of our better players before the bye. I reckon he will be in the Top 10 of the B&F. His run declined in the second half of the season and maybe this was because he was carrying out lock down roles.

McKay basically replaces Paddy and does not put pressure on Ollie. I prefer Ollie with ball in hand providing run than Lloyd who I wish had a more lock down role on smalls.

Think he is safe.