Opinion 2024 and Beyond

[Kiama Chris]

Not sure what was wrong with my response KC. It was a genuine comment. You asked what next and I said we need to do more of what we did in our grand final run of 2022. I felt like in that period we made so many astute tactical decisions that it was no surprise we were the clear second-best, if not best, side in the competition. I think we need to again make astute tactical decisions with the personnel we have. If we don't then we'll be just another great list underperforming, like you see with a handful of teams every year.

Offline

 

[Kiama Chris]

Agree we lack a regular match turning forward and an inside mid to match what Gulden does on the outside.

Gus may live up to our hopes and Adams is a solid B+ player., but agree we need to look forward. Unfortunately none of the three mids you mentioned do much for me. McCluggage is more outside but a terrific player nonetheless, Libbas cliff is approaching and Smith imo is more show than go.

I am really hoping Buller turns into a 50-60 goal pa fwd and we get 40-50 from Logan.

Would not touch either King. Unhappily their bodies may not be sufficiently robust.

I really like UgleHagan and would be delighted if we snaffled him. The one reservation is his kicking. Otherwise he is a very strong and smart kpf.

I agree. Our 22 run had Buddy and Reid providing most of the KPF grunt plus good form from Heeney, Papley and Hayward.
Ugle-Hagan would be a definite upgrade and worth chasing.

 

[Jewelsbon]

I agree. Our 22 run had Buddy and Reid providing most of the KPF grunt plus good form from Heeney, Papley and Hayward.
Ugle-Hagan would be a definite upgrade and worth chasing.

I think Ugle-Hagan is going to be a brilliant footballer, but really don't think we need (or could afford) both him and Logan.

 

[Bandicoot]

I keep asking myself apart from organic improvement of existing players where does our next step change in team capability come from?
We've done a great job in bringing in a potentially top notch ruck and a very good inside mid to address significant shortcomings. We've improved depth in a couple of areas and we've added to our pipeline with 3 decent draftees. All good but what next?
Even if this team goes on to win a GF and our current fringe players improve enough to win best 22 spots is that enough?
IMO we will still be short three genuine matchwinners:
Key forward
Key defender
Star midfielder (big body?)
Supposedly we have enough cash in the bank to go looking for at least one of these at the end of this season. Scanning those OOC:
KPF Ben King, Jesse Hogan, Todd Marshall, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan
KPD none IMO
Mids Hugh McCluggage, Bailey Smith, Tom Liberatore.
It seems to me that most clubs have their matchwinners in those categories pretty well tied up. I think that the improvement offered by those mids would be at the margin and no KPDs jump out at all, so if we're looking for another step forward it will need to be from the likes of Ben King, Todd Marshall or Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, making the assumption that they are better than at least two of the four we have now.

I wouldn't think that any of those 3 mids you mention classify as big bodied mids.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I wouldn't think that any of those 3 mids you mention classify as big bodied mids.

I agree, the question was about whether we need a big bodied mid specifically. There isn't one on the market who would be any real improvement over who we have. In fact, that's what I go on to say, that of the OOC players only a couple of the KPF's would be a significant improvement to the list and therefore worth pursuing. Uncle swears by Jamarra, as would plenty of others, and I believe we might be interested.
Otherwise I can't see a big trade period unless a contracted good player wants out from somewhere.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I agree, the question was about whether we need a big bodied mid specifically. There isn't one on the market who would be any real improvement over who we have. In fact, that's what I go on to say, that of the OOC players only a couple of the KPF's would be a significant improvement to the list and therefore worth pursuing. Uncle swears by Jamarra, as would plenty of others, and I believe we might be interested.
Otherwise I can't see a big trade period unless a contracted good player wants out from somewhere.

Dunkley would have been a great fit with us. Wonder if we tried.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Dunkley would have been a great fit with us. Wonder if we tried.

There are people in the know who have told the story. Apologies if I get it wrong but my understanding is that the family requested that we not bid on him and we acceded to that wish.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

There are people in the know who have told the story. Apologies if I get it wrong but my understanding is that the family requested that we not bid on him and we acceded to that wish.

That was when he was drafted. I meant last year when he got out of Footscray and went to the Brions.

 

[Kiama Chris]

That was when he was drafted. I meant last year when he got out of Footscray and went to the Brions.

Sorry, I misunderstood. No idea.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Sorry, I misunderstood. No idea.

no wuzzes.

 

[rustycrate]

I think Ugle-Hagan is going to be a brilliant footballer, but really don't think we need (or could afford) both him and Logan.

I think we could be after someone like him. He has not done anything yet so his price is not unattainable.
To me me it depends on Buller in 2024, the reliability of Amartey in 2024, we need key forwards to win a flag. If Amartey is unreliable again, if Buller does not come on, we need someone NOW. Ugle-Hagan fits the bill.

 

[rustycrate]

Just musing about our rucks. Its off season so my mind wanders and wonders.
With Grundy and his side kick McLean we have a Rolls Royce Ruck duo. Both are signed for the next 4 years. That will enable Grundy to ruck most of the game, which he likes. McLean likes to play forward most of the game. A marriage made in heaven.
Ladhams has a screw loose in the top paddock. He has apparently seen his mechanic and got it fixed and is ripping form. McLean vs Ladhams for ruck backup. Competition is healthy.
Speaking about competition, I hope Stretch has put on some muscle and has been doing extra sessions so that he can be challenging Ladhams for the ruck backup spot.
Long term if Stretch and Green both come on then we have 2 more years with Ladhams around. We should know by then whether Stretch and Green are going great guns.
This is the most excited I have been about our ruck setup ever since Mumford. I loved Mumford.

Looking forward to watching our rucks in 2024.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Just musing about our rucks. Its off season so my mind wanders and wonders.
With Grundy and his side kick McLean we have a Rolls Royce Ruck duo. Both are signed for the next 4 years. That will enable Grundy to ruck most of the game, which he likes. McLean likes to play forward most of the game. A marriage made in heaven.
Ladhams has a screw loose in the top paddock. He has apparently seen his mechanic and got it fixed and is ripping form. McLean vs Ladhams for ruck backup. Competition is healthy.
Speaking about competition, I hope Stretch has put on some muscle and has been doing extra sessions so that he can be challenging Ladhams for the ruck backup spot.
Long term if Stretch and Green both come on then we have 2 more years with Ladhams around. We should know by then whether Stretch and Green are going great guns.
This is the most excited I have been about our ruck setup ever since Mumford. I loved Mumford.

Looking forward to watching our rucks in 2024.

100%. My only concern is whether Ladhams can hold it together and produce good footy on a consistent basis. I doubt he is likely to find enough form as a forward to push out McLean or Amartey. Injury is another matter.

 

[rustycrate]

100%. My only concern is whether Ladhams can hold it together and produce good footy on a consistent basis. I doubt he is likely to find enough form as a forward to push out McLean or Amartey. Injury is another matter.

The "injury is another matter" is the reason why it is good to have him around. If Grundy goes down we are very skinny. Otherwise I reckon we are fine ruck wise. Good times in the ruck hopefully for the next dozen years or so.

 

[Bonz]

The "injury is another matter" is the reason why it is good to have him around. If Grundy goes down we are very skinny. Otherwise I reckon we are fine ruck wise. Good times in the ruck hopefully for the next dozen years or so.

Outside of Fremantle (Who have Jackson as backup), most clubs are in a weak position if their first ruck goes down.

 

[tombomb]

I think Ugle-Hagan is going to be a brilliant footballer, but really don't think we need (or could afford) both him and Logan.

I like Logan but I'd still be all over Ugle-Hagan if there was any opportunity at all for us to get him.

He could be the best player in the entire league in 18 months time.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I like Logan but I'd still be all over Ugle-Hagan if there was any opportunity at all for us to get him.

He could be the best player in the entire league in 18 months time.

I think the big thing about Jamarra and Logan is that they are potentially very complementary types. Jamarra more starting deep, leading and leaping, Logan more the Riewoldt type playing higher out around CHF. As things stand at the moment, if we had Jamarra he would play with Logan as the two keys and McLean as a really solid third tall and second ruck. I'm salivating thinking about it.
The problem for the Dogs is that Naughton and Jamarra are pretty similar. That might be our opportunity. Definitely worth a crack if we have the $. Knowing it might happen should keep Logan, McLean, Amartey and Buller hard at it!

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

I would put in a long term offer for Jamarra. Why is he so exciting ? It’s because he is skilful and fast, very fast. Can see him hitting number 1 player status in the AFL v soon.

 

[Ehswan]

I would put in a long term offer for Jamarra. Why is he so exciting ? It’s because he is skilful and fast, very fast. Can see him hitting number 1 player status in the AFL v soon.

We aren't getting Jamarra. He's pretty much said he is staying. I think at least 2 of our crop of forwards will have good careers.

 

[Kiama Chris]

We aren't getting Jamarra. He's pretty much said he is staying. I think at least 2 of our crop of forwards will have good careers.

Yup. McLean and McDonald are both fit, skilful and durable. The risk with Amartey is his fitness and durability. We don't know yet with Buller.
Jamarra worth a crack though, people's circumstances can change. Ask Grundy if two years ago he could imagine playing for Sydney!

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

Thought with Astro on a long term deal and the Bont maybe they can’t match ? Hopium.

 

[rustycrate]

I agree, the question was about whether we need a big bodied mid specifically. There isn't one on the market who would be any real improvement over who we have. In fact, that's what I go on to say, that of the OOC players only a couple of the KPF's would be a significant improvement to the list and therefore worth pursuing. Uncle swears by Jamarra, as would plenty of others, and I believe we might be interested.
Otherwise I can't see a big trade period unless a contracted good player wants out from somewhere.

My interest lies in Buller and Amartey. Should both not come on (Buller pushing for selection and Amartey staying on the park) then we have 2 first rounders looking at a key forward. Otherwise I reckon we go to the draft again.

 

[Kiama Chris]

My interest lies in Buller and Amartey. Should both not come on (Buller pushing for selection and Amartey staying on the park) then we have 2 first rounders looking at a key forward. Otherwise I reckon we go to the draft again.

Agree. I reckon we'll have a good idea by the Gather Round.

 

[RubbaDuck]

In fact none of the players RubbaDuck cited are none from three.

Seriously Horace, if you're going to play the pedant first check your facts. Otherwise you just confirm what others already suspect.

Cunningham debuted in 2012 but he missed out on the 2012, 2016 and 2022 Grand Finals. The only Grand Final he has been selected for was 2014. Technically he's 0-1 but he could also be considered 0-4 if you include the three GF years where he didn't even get selected. And before you get all pedantic again, he had little chance of being selected for 2012 having played only round 1, but not being selected for a winning Grand Final would be even worse than not being selected for a losing Grand Final. So, pedantry aside, my point stands. Cunningham deserves to win a GF before he retires.

Your claim that none of the players I mentioned are 0-3 is complete BS.

Jake LLoyd is 0-3. He debuted in 2013 and played in the losing Grand Finals of 14,16, and 22

Dane Rampe is also 0-3. He debuted in 2013 and also played the Grand Finals of 14,16, and 22

Back to my original point then. Cunningham, LLoyd and Rampe are all loyal veteran servants of our club who have never been lucky enough to win a premiership. They deserve to retire as premiership defenders and I hope we can get them a premiership in 2024.

 

[RubbaDuck]

I think we could be after someone like him. He has not done anything yet so his price is not unattainable.
To me me it depends on Buller in 2024, the reliability of Amartey in 2024, we need key forwards to win a flag. If Amartey is unreliable again, if Buller does not come on, we need someone NOW. Ugle-Hagan fits the bill.

I agree it'd be good to have more options up forward but Ugle-Hagan is no upgrade on McDonald and IMO not enough of an upgrade on McLean or Amartey. Either of the latter could make the step up this year. Reid is another option for 2024 if he's fit and then there's Buller, who has shown flashes. This is the first true non Buddy pre-season for these guys, where they will really have an opportunity to gel as a forward line.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that Ugle-Hagan has huge upside, but he isn't much more ready than what we have. I just don't think we'd get our best bang for buck investing a lot in a "future" star for a modicum of gain in our foward line. I think we've got a very healthy forward line, now but particularly for the future.

Our defence needs topping up, now and even more so over the next few years as a few stalwarts retire. Our midfield was struggling in 2023 but gets maybe a few years reprieve from the inclusion of Grundy and Adams. Unless we have guys like Gus coming through and breaking out and Ladhams or a young ruck like McAndrews and later Green doing the same, we could drop off if either of new midfield/ruck recruits are injured or they drop in form.

As a team on the cusp we should keep on eye on the future but we shouldn't be scared to use our premiership potential to attract genuine established stars who want a flag before they retire.