List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread - Part 3

[giantroo]

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Picks

 

[pupstar]

If the club weren't desperate to keep JHF then it's little wonder we have performed so terribly for so long.

So would you still like him on our list knowing that he had no interested in being with us and wanted to get bak to SA as quick as possible.???

 

[PokerRoo]

I think both sides have valid points. Adding Houston may or may not make us more competitive or "move the needle".
I don't think we're going to magically become a 10 win team just by bringing in Darling, Parker and potentially Houston because it takes time to build chemistry when new pieces are added. The experience and leadership should help theoretically, but I think most of our improvement will come from the group we have taking a step further.
There's also something a little bit psychological with the group in terms of the "woe is me" vibe. Do those senior players help that or does the group just need to win a few games in a row to get that confidence?
I don't know what the answer is but I think Parker will bring

I think its fair to query trading a F1 (likely top 4 pick) for Houston on it's own with nothing back and spending that for the role he plays and whether it's the right time to add that level of player when the rest of the group likely isn't ready.
The Lions traded for Neale, Dunkley, Cameron and Daniher types when they were on the cusp or in finals.
I don't think we're at that point myself and that was also 1st round capital spent in other areas of the ground.
They got Ah Chee via trade cheaper and Wilmot, Coleman and Zorko through the draft for that role.

Houston is an All-Australian, an elite ball user off the half back and better defender than what we have, but whether it's the right call to add him at that price and whether that time is now is fair to debate I think.
We just don't know either way and it's probably unlikely we'll get the chance to find out in the end.

Neale went to Brisbane in 2019. They had just finished 15th. He was part of the reason they jumped up the next season.

 

[pupstar]

So Jason, master strategist and cunning manipulator that he is, managed to convince our list management team that he was coming for the long haul when really he had a secret plan to scarper after a year?

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the easiest. He was/is an immature kid who was unable to resist the pressure he was put under by both Adelaide teams and his family. And we didn't provide sufficient support for him to do so, though whether or not this would have been possible is debatable. But clearly we didn't do sufficient due diligence prior to drafting him or we would have traded the pick.

Then all on here would be up in arms that we traded pick one and missed out on him a no win situation for the club. What support would have helped How do you know we didn't offer all the support possible or are you just guessing we didnt.

 

[Zondor]

Then all on here would be up in arms that we traded pick one and missed out on him a no win situation for the club. What support would have helped How do you know we didn't offer all the support possible or are you just guessing we didnt.

I’ll ask you again. Has the mighty NMFC got anything wrong? :stern look

 

[pupstar]

I’ll ask you again. Has the mighty NMFC got anything wrong? :stern look

Only some supporters.

 

[JGreezy]

I’ll ask you again. Has the mighty NMFC got anything wrong? :stern look

We got the polos wrong this year but other than that we've been killing it

 

[TurnoverMerchant]

My entire point is that anyone who posts something slightly critical of the club as 'inside' knowledge gets shouted down for making shit up, when such thing shouldn't really be a surprise given how poorly we've been performing.

Like why are we so unable to believe that some players might be getting jaded? I'd be more concerned if they were all loving this situation, Lol.

The reason I made the initial post is not because I’m some superfan who wants to protect the club at all costs. I’m all for accountability and have scolded the club on various occasions before.

However, my point was that I can’t truly believe that anyone will have the required inside sources to confirm this information. The information is almost always “a friend of a friend of a friend”. This is NOT verifiable information and only serves to hurt those it concerns.

What if someone from George’s family sees that post and goes straight to him to talk about how “unsettled” he is? It’s just all pointless BS imo.

 

[perplexed]

Then all on here would be up in arms that we traded pick one and missed out on him a no win situation for the club. What support would have helped How do you know we didn't offer all the support possible or are you just guessing we didnt.

As I said, it is debatable whether any amount of support would have helped, but what we provided didn't work.

The issue was the due diligence we did before making a decision. It obviously wasn't sufficient. In hindsight, trading out would have been the best decision, and would have been a win.

We don't need to frame Jason as a conniving villain. We can learn from our mistakes, and maybe we have - by splitting pick 1 the following year and by not going all-in on Harley last year.

 

[spurs]

Neale went to Brisbane in 2019. They had just finished 15th. He was part of the reason they jumped up the next season.

And was 25 years old

 

[shinboner magic]

Does Neale go to the lions if Cameron doesn’t go there the previous year
Or Dunkley/daniher join there if they aren’t a club on the rise.

This is why we NEED to chase Houston as hard as we can - it could be a domino effect of players coming in.
ok I’d love the player we’re chasing to be a bit younger and probably a gun forward but beggars can’t be choosers

 

[Zondor]

Only some supporters.

Wow. What an answer. Think a little harder. Are you capable of doing that? :stern look

 

[Zondor]

We got the polos wrong this year but other than that we've been killing it

Yes killing it all the way into the bottom 2 for a 5th straight year. Kudos for at least giving me one thing the NMFC has got wrong. :stern look

 

[Themanbun]

Does Neale go to the lions if Cameron doesn’t go there the previous year
Or Dunkley/daniher join there if they aren’t a club on the rise.

This is why we NEED to chase Houston as hard as we can - it could be a domino effect of players coming in.
ok I’d love the player we’re chasing to be a bit younger and probably a gun forward but beggars can’t be choosers

I see both sides of this debate. Still not sure how far we should go in our pursuit of Houston.

 

[krakouers]

No issue with this thread being turned into a Dermi analysis peace? Or posting satire tweets though?

Let’s be honest, without food discussions, thought pieces on players/media, satire posts and Nostra posting the same thoughts 6x times, we really would struggle to get this thread moving

 

[kool kangas]

I would be very surprised if wardlaw is not getting offers from better teams not having signed his contract extension.
We do need to improve now. It's pretty obvious really.
I think we do improve next year a bit but whether it's enough or not idk. Time will tell.

He's signed until the end of 2026 but will get another offer half way through next season similar to Sheezels. More money and more long term..

 

[pupstar]

As I said, it is debatable whether any amount of support would have helped, but what we provided didn't work.

The issue was the due diligence we did before making a decision. It obviously wasn't sufficient. In hindsight, trading out would have been the best decision, and would have been a win.

We don't need to frame Jason as a conniving villain. We can learn from our mistakes, and maybe we have - by splitting pick 1 the following year and by not going all-in on Harley last year.

Like you kinda say i don't think any support would have made a difference. Hind sight is always a wonderful thing though as we both know. Missing out on Harley but getting Colby I'm not to disappointed at the moment and i for one don't think he is a villain for one moment I would have loved to have kept him he is going to be a very very good player.

 

[BlueandWhiteinmyBlood]

Don’t know exactly how the bidding on NGA players works . So if someone bids on the Kako in top 5 does that mean Essendon will need to use multiple picks to obtain him to gets the points ?

If someone bids on Kako before wherever Tullamarine Bombers first pick is, they have the option to match, swoop in and take him by packaging up their picks that add up to the equivalent of the pick Kako was bid on. The issue for Essendon is, ideally they are hoping no one does, so they can select a player with their first pick then also get Kako later on when he was bid on, essentially two first round picks for the price of one. At the moment and it’s extremely funny, it looks like their first rounder will be eaten up in a bid to select Kako and Kako only, which would be on brand for their crappy season and off season. They are trying to off load their pick 9 so this doesn’t happen. A few years back, but the bidding system wasn’t a refined as it is now this happened to us with McDonald and Thomas, and instead of getting two first rounders for the price of one in each of the respective drafts, we had to use our first round pick on both.

 

[buttox]

I want Houston but no blank checks.
He is a very good player who would improve us dramatically.
I'd prefer splitting out f1 and sending one pick for him but idk if Port agree to that.
We have a good bunch of under 26s. But we can't hit the draft indefinitely. We need win to open up fa and trades to the club to fix needs.
I love the look of Armstrong and the Viking but realistically if it takes them 3 years to contribute in the firsts ldu is late 20s and we may have missed the boat.
If we can somehow jump out of the bottom 4 next year and become more attractive we get competitive far earlier through trade and fa.
The possibility of having a A grade player drop into our lap has to be taken if at all possible.
His biggest strength ( his kicking) is probably our biggest weakness.

 

[GS WARRIORS]

Neale went to Brisbane in 2019. They had just finished 15th. He was part of the reason they jumped up the next season.

Who is this years version of Neale?

25 year olds coming off the previous 4 years he had with Freo becoming available don't come around often.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

So Jason, master strategist and cunning manipulator that he is, managed to convince our list management team that he was coming for the long haul when really he had a secret plan to scarper after a year?

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the easiest. He was/is an immature kid who was unable to resist the pressure he was put under by both Adelaide teams and his family. And we didn't provide sufficient support for him to do so, though whether or not this would have been possible is debatable. But clearly we didn't do sufficient due diligence prior to drafting him or we would have traded the pick.

It may be naive, but I think Jason came to North in good faith that he was here for the long haul. Port Adelaide undoubtedly intended to come hard for him at the end of his first contract but events outside our control (Russell Jackson/Hawthorn) conspired to provide them the opportunity to force a trade a year early. Whether Jason's family gave Port Adelaide any reason to believe that he was interested in playing for them before he had played a game is really just speculation. Maybe it happened, but we will most likely never know if this was true.

Did NMFC do any wrong by Jason? No doubt mistakes were made in the way he was handled, both on field and off. We were not a well-run club at that time. We had a coach and CEO who were dead men walking as it turned out. However, I think the mistakes that were made were not so much failing to give Jason what he wanted. For instance, his living arrangements. We allowed him to live alone, which was according to his and his family's wishes, despite the fact that he had absolutely no life skills to look after himself. He needed to be billeted with a family, but how do you enforce this against someone's will? A part of the Hawthorn racism saga accusations involves a situation not dissimilar to this.

On field, he was clearly unhappy at having to play a defensive midfield position and not being given priority at stoppages especially. As we have seen with his games at Port Adelaide, he thrives when he gets to shark the tap outs and blaze forward and does not have to be in the least bit accountable going the other way. I don't think the answer was to give in to him on that score, not in his first season anyway. Hindsight tells us that we should have done what Collingwood did with Nick Daicos that very season, what we did with Harry Sheezel a year later, and what we then did with Colby McKercher this past season, and that's to let him rebound off half back.

So yeah, mistakes were made and I've only mentioned a couple. At the end of the day, he just wasn't a good fit and we move on.

 

[Sillygit]

Woah woah woah. George Wardlaw is unhappy?

Well good. I hope he is. I hope they all are.

The greatest motivator for change is being unhappy with what is current. It's not the whole story, but it's an incredibly important factor. If you're content, what's the need for change?

Now, whether that then translates to "I gotta do something, i gotta do this specific something," then doing that something depends on heaps of things. And yes, results from the doing is an important feedback loop to perpetuate motivation to continue. Interesting though, you could look at Melbourne as an example of when you do finally reach that goal that motivation drops off a cliff to do it again, for some.

And also yes, sometimes the change option people persue is removing oneself from the place of unhappiness. But there's absolutely nothing that can eliminate that entirely. It is always an option. Best you can do is create an environment that encourages doing of things that are at this club rather than leaving. And will that environment, with all the multitude of variables within it, work for every single player on the list? Maybe. Maybe not. Becuase who they are as a person is also a factor.

But to be worried becuase he's unhappy? Nah, I don't think that's worthwhile.

 

[GS WARRIORS]

Does Neale go to the lions if Cameron doesn’t go there the previous year
Or Dunkley/daniher join there if they aren’t a club on the rise.

This is why we NEED to chase Houston as hard as we can - it could be a domino effect of players coming in.
ok I’d love the player we’re chasing to be a bit younger and probably a gun forward but beggars can’t be choosers

Cameron was 24.

I think Houston is to old to be giving up so much currency.

 

[Val Keating]

I thought the mail is that Houston wants to go to Collingwood?

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

If someone bids on Kako before wherever Tullamarine Bombers first pick is, they have the option to match, swoop in and take him by packaging up their picks that add up to the equivalent of the pick Kako was bid on. The issue for Essendon is, ideally they are hoping no one does, so they can select a player with their first pick then also get Kako later on when he was bid on, essentially two first round picks for the price of one. At the moment and it’s extremely funny, it looks like their first rounder will be eaten up in a bid to select Kako and Kako only, which would be on brand for their crappy season and off season. They are trying to off load their pick 9 so this doesn’t happen. A few years back, but the bidding system wasn’t a refined as it is now this happened to us with McDonald and Thomas, and instead of getting two first rounders for the price of one in each of the respective drafts, we had to use our first round pick on both.

Didn't we use our first round pick in the Thomas draft to bring in Polec?

 

[Themanbun]

Didn't we use our first round pick in the Thomas draft to bring in Polec?

Yes but their point still stands I guess. We traded out so we wouldn't have to use that pick on Thomas and got Polec in addition, when the go these days is to trade ahead of the bid so you get 2 for 1. We got 2 for 1, it's just one of those 2 was Polec, lol.