Training 2024 training updates.

[manicpie]

We "chose" Dan because he was the only KPP on the market and within our price range.

Frampton is a shocking forward. Krueger is not giving you any aerial contests. Steene is a VFL kid. Cameron massively struggled in the forward line... Cox sometimes gives contests, sometimes he's non existent.

It's going to be a massive issue in 2024, Fly will have his work cut out.

bro, you've been saying this all year and previous years. We won the flag without this amazing KF you keep talking about. Just chill and enjoy the ride. You're wrong and have been proven wrong by a Premiership cup

 

[neilk]

I seem to recall his PRE surgery weights program, ( thought unconventional at the time) was suggested as making a major contribution to his fast recovery.

The pre-surgery weight program is also very beneficial for knee replacement recovery.

 

[neilk]

We just need talls to provide a contest when the defence is set. It's flipped in terms of skillset. You want classy kpds who mark it consistently and grunt kpfs who bring it to ground and take an occasional clunk.

Maybe Dean can do a "Mihocek" and play forward?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Definitely AJ's time to shine & make the most of this opportunity. Big positive is that he's come back super fit & strong.

Could see a flying start to the season!

 

[No SPIN]

Its really hard to tell, given the match sim is barely that given the small amount of players. But I've seen more of Hustwaite in the match sim than Bytel (who seems to be playing forward- not one of the starting mids that I could see)
Once the seniors are back on Monday, we may get a better idea

Jen, have you noticed if Bytel is a good kick on both sides?

 

[sr36]

Maybe Dean can do a Mihocek and play forward?

He was a forward as a junior.

 

[manicpie]

Structure won us the flag ie adding a like for like with Frampton replacing McStay.
Going small wouldn’t have negated Andrews.

did I say we should go small? I said we don't need a dominant big key forward. You actually just agreed with what I said.

 

[Bianconeri]

I was thinking more along the lines of kicking the ball into open space rather than to pack contests and letting the mosquito fleet get to work

That only works when there is space. We still need a plan when the opposition floods back.

 

[Gaspard]

Keen as I am on the Mihocek size players as effective forwards, I can see that there is a need for one player in the area who is big enough to prevent the opposition's tallest defender from marking everything that comes his way. Someone doing what Frampton did in the final is not a long term strategy that will work. Opposition tactics will work around such a defensive big forward if they know he is going to be there. McStay was a good choice, ideally suited to the dual attacking and defensive role. There is, however, no point talking about him for next year.

I will be scanning the reports here for the next few months to try and see how we are going to deal with this situation. The preliminary reports of Johnson's progress are heartening. The sniff of the growth of Steene as a forward seems good too. I still have hopes for Kreuger, and will keenly watch for news on him. It will take only one of those three to make his move for our forward line to look OK, injuries notwithstanding.

Preseason won't clarify my biggest concern for the coming year. Can Pendlebury and to a lesser extent Sidebottom, hold the standard for another year. Pendlebury was the single lost important player over 2023, at an age when few are even still on the field. I don't expect any headlines about his training, since it is so good it is rarely mentioned, so I will have to wait for actual games to see if father time has finally caught up.

 

[Daicosian silk]

That only works when there is space. We still need a plan when the opposition floods back.

That’s why we move it quickly and don’t crab it around the boundary like we used to do under Bucks

 

[JuniorB]

Keen as I am on the Mihocek size players as effective forwards, I can see that there is a need for one player in the area who is big enough to prevent the opposition's tallest defender from marking everything that comes his way. Someone doing what Frampton did in the final is not a long term strategy that will work. Opposition tactics will work around such a defensive big forward if they know he is going to be there. McStay was a good choice, ideally suited to the dual attacking and defensive role. There is, however, no point talking about him for next year.

I will be scanning the reports here for the next few months to try and see how we are going to deal with this situation. The preliminary reports of Johnson's progress are heartening. The sniff of the growth of Steene as a forward seems good too. I still have hopes for Kreuger, and will keenly watch for news on him. It will take only one of those three to make his move for our forward line to look OK, injuries notwithstanding.

Preseason won't clarify my biggest concern for the coming year. Can Pendlebury and to a lesser extent Sidebottom, hold the standard for another year. Pendlebury was the single lost important player over 2023, at an age when few are even still on the field. I don't expect any headlines about his training, since it is so good it is rarely mentioned, so I will have to wait for actual games to see if father time has finally caught up.

The positive is that neither player relies on speed.
Both have footy smarts+++.
Pendles is the master of space and time and Sidey has elite endurance.

 

[Mick F]

I've been thinking more about this, and I think Frampton's short notice, low-possession, thankless performance in the Grand Final as a forward has convinced us all that he's not even remotely a candidate to try out for the role as a second, big, pack-crashing forward.

He was given less than a week's notice to have to come into a grand final side and told to play a defensive forward role on Harris Andrews - I don't think that's comprehensive proof that he can't be a candidate for this role.

I would give him the whole preseason to work on playing that role before I completely write off the idea that he could be a stopgap in that position.

As a ruck and forward he was dropped/delisted. He rejuvenated his career in the back half.

 

[No SPIN]

did I say we should go small? I said we don't need a dominant big key forward. You actually just agreed with what I said.

You were indirectly agreeing with post #679 which said we should go smaller ie not replace McStay in a response to Bianconeri who challenged the premise in #679.
Hence my response to you.

 

[Apex36]

I've been thinking more about this, and I think Frampton's short notice, low-possession, thankless performance in the Grand Final as a forward has convinced us all that he's not even remotely a candidate to try out for the role as a second, big, pack-crashing forward.

He was given less than a week's notice to have to come into a grand final side and told to play a defensive forward role on Harris Andrews - I don't think that's comprehensive proof that he can't be a candidate for this role.

I would give him the whole preseason to work on playing that role before I completely write off the idea that he could be a stopgap in that position.

Yep, that whole preseason is definitely going to be the difference maker. Just ignore his the fact that he failed in the role at two seperate clubs over the course of 8 years.

 

[Apex36]

I mean that the club specifically chose Dan because we didn't want a completely dominant forward. We wanted a player to provide a contest. We can do that through Frampton, Cox, Cameron, freddy and Steene if it really concerns you about our lack of height. We went with Frampton to curb Andrews, very different to what you're suggesting. I would love McStay in the side next year but I seriously doubt we can't win the flag without him

I seriously doubt this is the case. They recruited Dan because they felt his attributes would work well in our system and he was the only competent key forward available that we had the means to acquire. It’s not like they’d have declined to chase a dominant key forward had they been available and wanting to come to us.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Yep, that whole preseason is definitely going to be the difference maker. Just ignore his the fact that he failed in the role at two seperate clubs over the course of 8 years.

Well he didn't fail with us. Stepped up when needed in a few games. In the ruck, defending and up forward.
GF played his role.
Oleg also failed at two other clubs.

 

[Kappa]

Dan only played 14 games in 2023, and whilst he was good, we still found a way to win the flag without him.

Obviously it would be better to have Dan. But with him going down so early, the coaches have plenty of time to work on strategy. Personally, I think this represents a tremendous opportunity for Johnson. He could be the big improver.

He could be, Johnson doesn't play the role McStay plays though.

 

[mwhop]

No need to overcomplicate things
It will just be the same as our first half.of last year
Mihocek AJ and Cox/Cameron
They will just shuffle them around to manage different game states and opposition
Kreuger and Reef will get a look in at times

 

[Jen2310]

I don't think we can assume who gets mcstay's.. spot, I dont like to say role, as nobody can play, and do the things he does. It's only december after all.
We assume Johnson, but who knows if Kreuger has a great pre-season. We know he can perform (early 2022 showed the things he can do) when he doesnt wreck himself getting injured.

Kreuger is probably the most like for like, big body, can bring the ball to ground, crashes packs. We just need him to be fit and prove himself. But we know thats a battle in itself.

 

[Bianconeri]

That’s why we move it quickly and don’t crab it around the boundary like we used to do under Bucks

We’ve moved it quickly the last two years, still needed a key forward to bring the ball to ground. There are many elements to the game, we need to be prepared for all of them.

 

[manicpie]

I seriously doubt this is the case. They recruited Dan because they felt his attributes would work well in our system and he was the only competent key forward available that we had the means to acquire. It’s not like they’d have declined to chase a dominant key forward had they been available and wanting to come to us.

I beg to differ. We wanted Dan because he had the best record of bringing the ball to ground and creating a solid contest. Look at our small forward brigade. It's not hard to work out. We were never in the hunt for a dominant KF except Lynch but that had eddies finger prints all over it.

 

[Apex36]

Well he didn't fail with us. Stepped up when needed in a few games. In the ruck, defending and up forward.
GF played his role.
Oleg also failed at two other clubs.

I have no issue with Frampton the defender, or as the fill in ruck. He’s a crap forward though, and it’s bizarre that anyone would think otherwise based off a 0 goal, 2 disposal game where he acted as a decoy for the real forwards to do their work.

 

[Fat Jesus]

I have no issue with Frampton the defender, or as the fill in ruck. He’s a crap forward though, and it’s bizarre that anyone would think otherwise based off a 0 goal, 2 disposal game where he acted as a decoy for the real forwards to do their work.

Perhaps, although he played his role to almost perfection on the day.
Fly would have been proud.
Could have snagged a couple as well if not for GF nerves.
He will walk taller next year with a medal around his neck.

 

[Apex36]

I beg to differ. We wanted Dan because he had the best record of bringing the ball to ground and creating a solid contest. Look at our small forward brigade. It's not hard to work out. We were never in the hunt for a dominant KF except Lynch but that had eddies finger prints all over it.

You’re spot on in regards to the reasoning behind getting him. As I said, they identified that he’d work well in our system and he was the best available in 2022.

If you think they’d overlook a dominant key forward though, one who not only brings the ball to ground but takes those contested marks and kicks goals, you’re crazy. Basic logic says that taking a mark and kicking a set shot is a higher percentage play than bringing it to ground and relying on crumbers to kick goals.

The fact that there were so many whispers around us enquiring about Naughton this year would indicate that we’re still very much interested in getting a more dominant key tall.

 

[Apex36]

Perhaps, although he played his role to almost perfection on the day.
Fly would have been proud.
Could have snagged a couple as well if not for GF nerves.
He will walk taller next year with a medal around his neck.

Cool. None of that makes him a remotely good permanent forward prospect though.