Training 2024 training updates.

[jc37]

Our best 22 doesnt have many openings at start of year doesnt have many openings.
I think there is an opportunity for Frampton, Dean or Eyre to take full back and something we need to see given maybe Howes last year.
Johnson and McInness have a potential spot.

It would be great if a midfielder stepped up ahead of Lipinski. Macrae, Allan, DeMattia.

McInness and Harrison I would like to see spend more time developing in midfield in VFL.

Would be good to see Steene kick 25-30 goals in VFL

 

[Bianconeri]

I remember Bucks saying Tyler had Fyfe like attributes. Went off half-cocked.
Going off training form also led Bucks to selecting Peter Yagmoor in Round 1 when he wasn’t ready and also preferring Henry Schade to Lynden Dunn.

Or Jack Frost to Lachlan Keeffe

 

[vindaloo]

If Reef or Ash don't take their opportunities and the full-forward position become a serious dilemma, should we pursue with Moore as a forward?

 

[Jen2310]

If Reef or Ash don't take their opportunities and the full-forward position become a serious dilemma, should we pursue with Moore as a forward?

Can always swing howe forward and bring in a defender, if that were to occur. He has trained forward at times this pre-season.
Moore did swing forward late last week, so reckon there are options.

 

[ClaytonM]

If Reef or Ash don't take their opportunities and the full-forward position become a serious dilemma, should we pursue with Moore as a forward?

It wouldn't be a preseason without a Moore to play forward comment.

 

[WakeUpPies]

For me avowed is okay but they have just left out the adjective to tell us what they want to assert or be avowed by re his progress. "Trackwatchers have been avowed by his rapid progress" as an example. Still its clumsy. As many English teachers have said, simplify it. Sorry to say but Annabel could learn that lesson.

"trackworkers have been impressed by his progress" is simple and succinct.

Don't fluff for the sake of fluffing

Agree, keep it simple.

He look good. People like. Progress yes. Season big. Premiers 2024.

 

[LuckyLee]

IMHO it would be good for our list development to see Mcrae, Reef, Allan in the round 1 team.
Johnson also

Against a full-strength GWS side on their home ground, who have spent the entire summer driven to avenge their 1-point Prelim Final loss??? I cant see it happening.

IMO, we will want to show no vulnerability and demonstrate no Premiership hangover. I predict we’ll go in as full strength and experienced as possible.

Barring injuries, I’d say Schultz & Johnson to replace Ginni and Frampton would be the only changes from our GF side.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Just a feeling but I reckon giving two of our VFL players a chance to break into the AFL squad will change the dynamics of our VFL team this season. Those in the senior squad playing VFL now have some extra pressure to just stay in the squad.
I expect the VFL team to go deep into finals this year, something we’ve struggled to do regularly. If it comes to pass this will benefit our back to back chances greatly.

 

[BillyElliott]

Just a feeling but I reckon giving two of our VFL players a chance to break into the AFL squad will change the dynamics of our VFL team this season. Those in the senior squad playing VFL now have some extra pressure to just stay in the squad.
I expect the VFL team to go deep into finals this year, something we’ve struggled to do regularly. If it comes to pass this will benefit our back to back chances greatly.

There's been a lot of changes in the VFL side for this year.

 

[LuckyLee]

Surely Fin is most likely to take Adams’ spot.

Take the spot Adams didn’t have in our GF side? If you’re wanting Macrae in for Rd1, he’ll have to take someone else’s spot. Maybe Lipinski’s?

Perhaps a bit stiff but I reckon Macrae will have to bide his time in the VFL until we cop an injury or two.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

There's been a lot of changes in the VFL side for this year.

Didn’t realise this. Thanks for the heads up. Back to back and VFL premiership would be nice. Hopefully the gals can kick some butt this year too.

 

[Jen2310]

Didn’t realise this. Thanks for the heads up. Back to back and VFL premiership would be nice. Hopefully the gals can kick some butt this year too.

Yeah, bit of a turnover, and lost one of our most experienced players. But we acquired some players too. But some with no vfl experience. Or very little. But from what ive seen at vfl training, they have a good connection

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Yeah, bit of a turnover, and lost one of our most experienced players. But we acquired some players too. But some with no vfl experience. Or very little. But from what ive seen at vfl training, they have a good connection

Nice.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

In action

Hilarious the way 7 leads with Daicos "treading a fine line" because it's training rather than Murphy being the lucky one as the lead.

I care ten times more about Murphy's wellbeing than I do about Nick's January tackle form.

 

[Gone Critical]

I think you’re probably overestimating Allan here. I think he’s got high upside, and will make it, but he came in to the system very raw so might need a bit extra time to become best 22. I’m hoping he can make the step up by the end of 2025, any earlier will be a bonus.

You’re also way too down on Fin. All reports have him as one of the standouts this preseason. He’s far more likely to be playing a lot of games than Allan, and he’s light years ahead of Harry and Ryan at this point.

I see it a bit differently to most I agree but I think stats back my thoughts in this area pretty well. I did say interchange players to suit your own views but the real message is we don't need a lot playing a few games, we need a lot playing a few

With Allen I don't buy the raw idea much. I would be disappointed if he didnt get to 12 games and 20 would be fantastic. When you say he is probably too raw I look at players like Bianco who played 12 2nd season, Call Brown 8, Fas 24, Beau 22, Elliott 20, Phillips 18 , Blair 12 Dale Thomas 25, Sidey 25etc etc etc I don't think you have to be that good or that developed to play 12 games season 2. If you are going to be a very good player or better its very likely you will be playing a lot of footy season 2. Allens got great physical traits and a pretty mature body. I cant see why we wouldn't be hoping he plays a good bit of AFL in 24

Of course same applies to Reef and Finn. I have more hope for Reef but the figures say if you aint playing regular senior footy in your 4th season when you only have 11 or 12 games to your name your prospects are bleak. Nobody who is not best 22 after 3 complete seasons can't be light years ahead types like Harry D or Ryan. They are potentially 1 bad practice match away from being behind them. As tough as it is I think shining in preseason counts for very little for Reef or Finn. They have to perform in real matches this season. If they don't their preseason doesnt help.

Consider this senario Harry and Finn both get a spot in the 26 for the Richmond community games by dint of their pre season. Finn starts but has a quiet 1st half, 5 HBs and a kick and looks a bit off pace, Harry comes on, lays a big tackle gets int a few chains where his speed and disposal look great and he even snags a goal. Finn after 1/2 a practice game is definitely not light years ahead.

Alternate senario Finn get 12 possies in 1st half, great contested work and looks to have taken major steps, he stays on , finished with 22 possies and locks up a spot in the 1st game. Harry gets his 2nd half but struggles and looks like will need a good VFL stint at a minimum before he may get some AFL time later in the season. Now Finn is well ahead, at least for a while.


Thing is Harry has some time on his side as long as he shows a bit. Finn has to be playing soon. No one outside the 22 is miles ahead. IMHO

 

[Gone Critical]

I remember Bucks saying Tyler had Fyfe like attributes. Went off half-cocked.
Going off training form also led Bucks to selecting Peter Yagmoor in Round 1 when he wasn’t ready and also preferring Henry Schade to Lynden Dunn.

The highlighted is harsh. 2012 round 1. Bucks 1st game and he has 8 of the 22 who played in the 2011 GF missing

Leon and Brown retired
Maxwell, Johnson, Krak, Wellingham, Tarrant and Dids injured

Bring in 3 debutants Yagmoor Paine and Seedsman, 3 less than 10 gamers Sinclair, Keefe and Rounds, Clarke who had only just got back from Ireland and Goldy.

It was almost a case of give a game to anyone fit. Amazing bad luck to start the season with 8 missing from a GF side.

 

[Dundalis]

I see it a bit differently to most I agree but I think stats back my thoughts in this area pretty well. I did say interchange players to suit your own views but the real message is we don't need a lot playing a few games, we need a lot playing a few

With Allen I don't buy the raw idea much. I would be disappointed if he didnt get to 12 games and 20 would be fantastic. When you say he is probably too raw I look at players like Bianco who played 12 2nd season, Call Brown 8, Fas 24, Beau 22, Elliott 20, Phillips 18 , Blair 12 Dale Thomas 25, Sidey 25etc etc etc I don't think you have to be that good or that developed to play 12 games season 2. If you are going to be a very good player or better its very likely you will be playing a lot of footy season 2. Allens got great physical traits and a pretty mature body. I cant see why we wouldn't be hoping he plays a good bit of AFL in 24

Of course same applies to Reef and Finn. I have more hope for Reef but the figures say if you aint playing regular senior footy in your 4th season when you only have 11 or 12 games to your name your prospects are bleak. Nobody who is not best 22 after 3 complete seasons can't be light years ahead types like Harry D or Ryan. They are potentially 1 bad practice match away from being behind them. As tough as it is I think shining in preseason counts for very little for Reef or Finn. They have to perform in real matches this season. If they don't their preseason doesnt help.

Consider this senario Harry and Finn both get a spot in the 26 for the Richmond community games by dint of their pre season. Finn starts but has a quiet 1st half, 5 HBs and a kick and looks a bit off pace, Harry comes on, lays a big tackle gets int a few chains where his speed and disposal look great and he even snags a goal. Finn after 1/2 a practice game is definitely not light years ahead.

Alternate senario Finn get 12 possies in 1st half, great contested work and looks to have taken major steps, he stays on , finished with 22 possies and locks up a spot in the 1st game. Harry gets his 2nd half but struggles and looks like will need a good VFL stint at a minimum before he may get some AFL time later in the season. Now Finn is well ahead, at least for a while.


Thing is Harry has some time on his side as long as he shows a bit. Finn has to be playing soon. No one outside the 22 is miles ahead. IMHO

To me, generically using years in the system as the primary gauge for making even remotely definitive statements about the progress of individual players seems somewhat misleading. There is a boat load of fairly critical context that is directly relevant to the progress of each of the players that is completely missed by doing that. i.e. Reef's tank, the quality of a premiership winning midfield for Finn's lack of games, luck with injuries, etc. Saying stuff like there's a better chance for players to become good players if they are playing a decent number of games by season 2 is obviously true, but its not particularly useful without context specific to an individual player.

Also have no idea why you would think having an incredible pre season isn't very relevant to the progress or chances of any young player. Obviously they have to perform in real matches, but that goes for everyone. Pre season is a pretty big indicator of your chances of doing just that for all players to an extent, but especially younger players who haven't hit their physical peaks yet, full pre seasons with high performance levels are gold, especially if you are a young player who has struggled to have full pre seasons prior due to injury issues.

 

[Harry O]

If he is 1-5 games in 24 yeah. As I said I used names I think most likely end up in those spots. They are interchangable though. Biggest point is we dont need a lot of players outside the best 22 playing a few games we need a few of them playing a lot of games.

With all the likely retirements at end of 2024 I don’t think we will need to delist many

 

[sr36]

To me, generically using years in the system as the primary gauge for making even remotely definitive statements about the progress of individual players seems somewhat misleading. There is a boat load of fairly critical context that is directly relevant to the progress of each of the players that is completely missed by doing that. i.e. Reef's tank, the quality of a premiership winning midfield for Finn's lack of games, luck with injuries, etc. Saying stuff like there's a better chance for players to become good players if they are playing a decent number of games by season 2 is obviously true, but its not particularly useful without context specific to an individual player.

GC's theory on this does stack up when you look at the trends and go through the older players in the league - they played senior footy early. It even holds for the very speculative converts to the game.

Having said that if you look back at the Hawks champions of the 80s, some of them played a lot of reserves footy, so it's not a trend that will necessarily hold.

Selection is subjective and biased by theories of the time. There's been a broad consensus that the best way of developing talented youngsters is to get senior footy into them. It might be that theory that is producing the trend with talented youngsters getting picked before they're better than some more senior guys. McRae's mantra of setting them up for success may see a change in the trend with them playing more VFL footy. The other factor that may see a shift is the increased specialisation of roles. In the past, a kid like Finn getting 30 in the VFL would have been selected to play forward pocket ahead of Harrison.

 

[Fruit]

Years in the system might be a tricky metric to use. Right now I can’t remember having so many young players in the VFL who look like they could transition into good AFL players. The issue is that we are a much stronger senior side to break into now as we are the reigning premiers.
Tom Mitchell went through the same scenario at Sydney. Everyone knew he could play but just couldn’t get a regular spot early days and even got dropped for a GF. Josh Kennedy was the same at Hawthorn. Couldn’t break into the midfield regularly.
I hope we don’t lose potential stars just at the same time we have quite a few regular senior players who are in their last season or two.
Kudos to the recruiting team.

 

[JuniorB]

GC's theory on this does stack up when you look at the trends and go through the older players in the league - they played senior footy early. It even holds for the very speculative converts to the game.

Having said that if you look back at the Hawks champions of the 80s, some of them played a lot of reserves footy, so it's not a trend that will necessarily hold.

Selection is subjective and biased by theories of the time. There's been a broad consensus that the best way of developing talented youngsters is to get senior footy into them. It might be that theory that is producing the trend with talented youngsters getting picked before they're better than some more senior guys. McRae's mantra of setting them up for success may see a change in the trend with them playing more VFL footy. The other factor that may see a shift is the increased specialisation of roles. In the past, a kid like Finn getting 30 in the VFL would have been selected to play forward pocket ahead of Harrison.

Guys like Tuck & Dipper played plenty of reserves games.
It also depends a bit on whether the team is contending - last year we mostly played our best available team.
As it turned out, we needed to, because a few goals here and there could have made a big difference to the final outcome.
If we were mid ladder instead, more of the young guys might have gotten games.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Opportunities will open up, they usually do.

Currently based on “ last start” there’s really only framptons spot up for grabs and a maybe the sub spot currently occupied by lipinski. Shultz will presumably step into Ginnis spot while mcstay of course us injured.

So possibly two fresh ins for our first game

Maybe Reef sounds like the front runner to replace frampton and then it’s a question of whether macrae has done enough to squeeze out lippa ( or somebody else)

 

[sr36]

Opportunities will open up, they usually do.

Currently based on “ last start” there’s really only framptons spot up for grabs and a maybe the sub spot currently occupied by lipinski. Shultz will presumably step into Ginnis spot while mcstay of course us injured.

So possibly two fresh ins for our first game

Maybe Reef sounds like the front runner to replace frampton and then it’s a question of whether macrae has done enough to squeeze out lippa ( or somebody else)

Yep. For those hoping that a few kids play round 1, be careful what you wish for - as that will probably mean injuries, which don't only target the blokes you want to see make way for the kids.

 

[Horaceg]

It wouldn't be a preseason without a Moore to play forward comment.

I for one think he’d become an awesome forward, showed some real signs up there early, but he’s an AA Backman doing what he does, one of the best in the comp. We can’t replace him down back and I think that’s his place, unless someone is better in that role then it’s not worth the discussion.

 

[sr36]

I for one think he’d become an awesome forward, showed some real signs up there early, but he’s an AA Backman doing what he does, one of the best in the comp. We can’t replace him down back and I think that’s his place, unless someone is better in that role then it’s not worth the discussion.

Plus, I'm of the view that gun KPDs are currently more valuable than gun KPFs. I don't think any team is getting to the pointy end without at least one high quality KPD to build their defensive structure around. Other than short stints in games where we're behind late and need a goal, I don't think there's any chance we shift him.