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[Earls Smother]

We need to move past Hewett if we're going to be a premiership team. I'm hopeful Jagga will have replaced Hewett by the end of the year.

There's still a role for Hewett in the future chopping out Cripps or playing Docherty's role if he retires, but in our current mix, he should be the 5th midfielder and hopefully Jagga / Lord go past him quickly.

You've created a bit of discussion with this comment.

I'm sure people don't realise our total reluctance to have played Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy, Walsh and Cerra in the same 22.

The below shows we played them all in the 22 TWICE last year, both times with Cerra playing at half back (rounds 19 and 20, when other injuries had started to mount up).

Rounds 0-4, Walsh missed

Rounds 5-7, Cerra missed

Round 8, Kennedy sub

Round 9, Hewett sub

Round 10-15, Cerra missed

Round 16, Hewett sub

Round 17-18, Hewett dropped

Round 21, Kennedy sub

Round 22-24, Cerra missed


Every single time they were all available, we left one of Hewett or Kennedy out of the 22 (except Cerra playing back for 2 weeks when Boyd went out). On what basis are we changing that balance, given we will almost certainly add Jagga? People will say we lost the plot when Hewett got dropped, but that is ignoring the mounting injury toll. It certainly wasn't an issue for the first 16 weeks.

Unless we make Jagga sub every week and we want to continue to be too slow around the ball, you are likely to have made a valid point.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Not a lot of love for George there....

George is a consistent workhorse and valuable to our team.

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I love Hewett but he is a very slow midfielder who immediately circles backwards out of the pack whenever he gets a clearance. Nothing wrong with that but our midfield overall lacked pace / cutting edge last year. If we are lucky enough to have Jagga, Cerra, Walsh and Cripps fit for the whole year it might limit George's playing time a bit.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

You've created a bit of discussion with this comment.

I'm sure people don't realise our total reluctance to have played Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy, Walsh and Cerra in the same 22.

The below shows we played them all in the 22 TWICE last year, both times with Cerra playing at half back (rounds 19 and 20, when other injuries had started to mount up).

Rounds 0-4, Walsh missed

Rounds 5-7, Cerra missed

Round 8, Kennedy sub

Round 9, Hewett sub

Round 10-15, Cerra missed

Round 16, Hewett sub

Round 17-18, Hewett dropped

Round 21, Kennedy sub

Round 22-24, Cerra missed


Every single time they were all available, we left one of Hewett or Kennedy out of the 22 (except Cerra playing back for 2 weeks when Boyd went out). On what basis are we changing that balance, given we will almost certainly add Jagga? People will say we lost the plot when Hewett got dropped, but that is ignoring the mounting injury toll. It certainly wasn't an issue for the first 16 weeks.

Unless we make Jagga sub every week and we want to continue to be too slow around the ball, you are likely to have made a valid point.

I think people forget how common the complaint was about our midfield being slow last year. Walsh wasn't 100% and Cerra was obviously struggling in the few games he did play. Kennedy and Hewett are both good players but the overall balance of the midfield was out.

Kennedy got moved on. Jagga comes in. If you think he's not going to spend plenty of time in the midfield I think you'll be surprised.

Where does that leave George who is a 1 pos player?

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Which players should Voss use as subs?

I think Lord and Binns would go alright.

Early in the season should be used as a tactical manoeuvre, as the season progresses should be used as an opportunity to rest your key players who just need a quieter week which is really just as tactical.

In the case of giving TDK a quieter week and coming on when the heat is out of the game I see no problems with that at all.

We need to be smarter as a club about getting our best core players at their best physical condition when it matters most, using the sub is a way to do that but also resting completely players who really need it. Whole club approach in practise not the theory I hear from Voss and the MC that rarely is put into practise.

I believe he was trying to do that starting from the GWS game when he rested Hewitt, problem was the MC brought in a bloke that was horrifically under done


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[marcmurphy3]

Early in the season should be used as a tactical manoeuvre, as the season progresses should be used as an opportunity to rest your key players who just need a quieter week which is really just as tactical.

In the case of giving TDK a quieter week and coming on when the heat is out of the game I see no problems with that at all.

We need to be smarter as a club about getting our best core players at their best physical condition when it matters most, using the sub is a way to do that but also resting completely players who really need it. Whole club approach in practise not the theory I hear from Voss and the MC that rarely is put into practise.

I believe he was trying to do that starting from the GWS game when he rested Hewitt, problem was the MC brought in a bloke that was horrifically under done


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I think Hewett's sub time was more about trying to fit him and Kennedy into the team. Playing both was bad for balance, but both were to good to be left out of the team entirely. So one often ended up sub, even though Hewett is not really suited to that role.

I wouldn't personally be using the sub to rest good players. Maybe to sub out when the games over, but not sub in.

 

[Earls Smother]

I think people forget how common the complaint was about our midfield being slow last year. Walsh wasn't 100% and Cerra was obviously struggling in the few games he did play. Kennedy and Hewett are both good players but the overall balance of the midfield was out.

Kennedy got moved on. Jagga comes in. If you think he's not going to spend plenty of time in the midfield I think you'll be surprised.

Where does that leave George who is a 1 pos player?

We also have Doc back, who can play mid and is more versatile.

I see Hewett a bit like Jarryd Lyons at Brisbane. Bloody good footballer in terms of getting his hands on the ball, but a real worry when the opposition have the ball on the outside.

Lyons hung on as a regular sub in 2023, then Brisbane effectively replaced him with Ashcroft. Ashcroft wins a Norm Smith and Brisbane win the flag.

 

[JustaBattler]

In close games playing your role and executing is the difference. Walsh cost the game against Collingwood because he failed to follow team orders and that was stick to Daicos. Cerra was part of that as well in failing to take control of the ball in the ball up - extending that was the whole scrimmage set up which allowed for a team to score from a ball up with a minute to go on the clock. An exposed the weakness that plagued Carlton all year and was never addressed.

Set up and the technicalities of how to control set plays in different parts of the ground is all about coaching - line coaches have to take responsibility for that weakness as much (if not more) than players.

Fitness , availability and continuity help develop team IP and IQ and is the only 'excuse' I can offer for a team which was constantly exposed for being scored against from stoppages in 2024 - but coaching has to cop a fair serve for that because it is basic football.

TLDR?

Footy smarts beats leg speed every time. Carlton needs to smarten up from being below average footy IQ team to at least average.

In the context of the discussion re Hewett- I would say he is the smartest mid we have - and am looking forward to seeing whether this Smith kid can be as smart and also come with outside run. IF Walsh is to go to the next level - he needs to grow a footy brain to match his run and endurance. No use demanding the ball if you don't know what to do with it.

 

[The Bighouse]

I love Hewett but he is a very slow midfielder who immediately circles backwards out of the pack whenever he gets a clearance. Nothing wrong with that but our midfield overall lacked pace / cutting edge last year. If we are lucky enough to have Jagga, Cerra, Walsh and Cripps fit for the whole year it might limit George's playing time a bit.

Nothing wrong with circling back, just need another player moving through to distribute (and cleanly).

Need the runners to tune-in and some skill upgrades.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I think Hewett starts. If Jagga is ready for more CBAs than expected, Walsh and Cerra just come up off a flank a bit more to accommodate him. Easier to accommodate all in a 5 mid set-up with Jagga as the 5th mid instead of Kennedy (who like Hewett and Cripps needs to be predominantly inside).

Although I don't subscribe to the theory, that Hewett is undroppable because he is the " defensive midfielder" and we have all these specific roles in the midfield that we need to fill. I'm not sure it's so black and white, so long as we have a reasonably balanced set-up.

 

[TerryWallet]

On the Hewett discussion - imo, Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett will/should be our 4 core mids. Jagga will play as much mid as his experience/body allows with the rest of time off a flank. Elijah will be the 6th rotating mid. We will then get bursts from other bursty smalls.

For better or worse, that is OUR midfield. It can be a fantastic midfield when up and running, as it has been when it has been up and running.

Lord and maybe Doc the primary depth mids.

For mine, Hewett is chronicly underrated. But everyone has their own leanings.

I personally can't see Doc as the Doc of old anymore. He has missed so much footy and his body has been through so much, that i see him as a shadow of the old Doc. To me, he is the one who will struggle to get in our "mythical" Best 23.

Whereas Hewett is integral.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think Hewett's sub time was more about trying to fit him and Kennedy into the team. Playing both was bad for balance, but both were to good to be left out of the team entirely. So one often ended up sub, even though Hewett is not really suited to that role.

I wouldn't personally be using the sub to rest good players. Maybe to sub out when the games over, but not sub in.

I also wonder if the club were tinkering to try and work out what the best tactical sub role would be.

Some clubs use it for an x-factor type who can come on and kick a few goals. Others use to get some senior time into young players. Some want a versatile player who can cover multiple starters so they can plug them into whatever line is needed.

Maybe we had a school of thought that bringing in a fresh contested mid late in the game would help us secure more ball out of the middle, thereby gaining territory and applying scoreboard pressure through our tall targets?

I don't think it worked, necessarily, but I can see the rationale behind giving it a bit of a go for a while.

 

[katmanblue]

In close games playing your role and executing is the difference. Walsh cost the game against Collingwood because he failed to follow team orders and that was stick to Daicos. Cerra was part of that as well in failing to take control of the ball in the ball up - extending that was the whole scrimmage set up which allowed for a team to score from a ball up with a minute to go on the clock. An exposed the weakness that plagued Carlton all year and was never addressed.

Set up and the technicalities of how to control set plays in different parts of the ground is all about coaching - line coaches have to take responsibility for that weakness as much (if not more) than players.

Fitness , availability and continuity help develop team IP and IQ and is the only 'excuse' I can offer for a team which was constantly exposed for being scored against from stoppages in 2024 - but coaching has to cop a fair serve for that because it is basic football.

TLDR?

Footy smarts beats leg speed every time. Carlton needs to smarten up from being below average footy IQ team to at least average.

In the context of the discussion re Hewett- I would say he is the smartest mid we have - and am looking forward to seeing whether this Smith kid can be as smart and also come with outside run. IF Walsh is to go to the next level - he needs to grow a footy brain to match his run and endurance. No use demanding the ball if you don't know what to do with it.

One problem is that I don't think Walsh is a very cunning footballer.

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[Coona Blues]

On the Hewett discussion - imo, Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett will/should be our 4 core mids. Jagga will play as much mid as his experience/body allows with the rest of time off a flank. Elijah will be the 6th rotating mid. We will then get bursts from other bursty smalls.

For better or worse, that is OUR midfield. It can be a fantastic midfield when up and running, as it has been when it has been up and running.

Lord and maybe Doc the primary depth mids.

For mine, Hewett is chronicly underrated. But everyone has their own leanings.

I personally can't see Doc as the Doc of old anymore. He has missed so much footy and his body has been through so much, that i see him as a shadow of the old Doc. To me, he is the one who will struggle to get in our "mythical" Best 23.

Whereas Hewett is integral.

Jagga will become integral pretty quickly.

I have plenty of time for George. He is a great worker, doing the hard yards. Just doesn’t have the scope to create like our other mids. I am well aware that everyone needs a defensive minded player in the engine room. There are games where his combative nature somewhat lights the way for us. For now he is a staple, but I am not convinced that Lord or eventually Ben can’t be just as effective defensively and create more going forward and on the spread.

Also expect to see Doc as more than just depth. Unsure how rhey will utilise Elijah regarding “zones”

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I believe Hewett is currently a lock, and I doubt Jagga is competing with him for a spot

The fact of the matter is, as pointed out by Earls Smother, when we had all players available last season Hewett was dropped twice to the sub position. I think he is clearly not a 'lock' and we would like a more attacking midfield in many circumstances this year.

 

[Crippa#9]

One problem is that I don't think Walsh is a very cunning footballer.

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Watch his Geelong game last year (when we won). I thought he was very clever in where he positioned and ran post stoppage. He was getting hard tagged by Atkins early on and then ultimately went to Dangerfield and made Danger have to be accountable. It was a bit like Walshy saying "c'mon old boy, you're gonna follow me around for a while".

You might say that's simply good coaching but you have to be smart enough to execute that and Walshy was.

He got 33 + a goal and Danger finished with 17 and was chasing tail all night.

 

[BlueNath]

We need to stop comparing Hewett to other mids to workout who should and should not be in our midfield mix based on skill or athletic abilities.

Every team will setup a little differently, and sometimes this is based on the players you have on your list/availability too. But essentially, most teams will have at least one player in a defensive role at each stoppage... usually trying to quell the oppositions best/most dangerous mid.

Anyone can play that defensive mid role, but typically you need certain physical attributes. So if teams rotate this role it is typically only between 2 players. However, it is so much more advantageous when you can have a guy dedicated to that defensive mid role.

The defensive mid role is crucial to team success. And this was even more evident last year when, IMO, the best two defensive mids in the comp featured in the two sides in the garnd final... Dunkley and Rowbottom. It is a less glamorous role, and makes the other mids shine (Warner, Heeney, Neale, Ashcroft etc.).

I believe we have the 3rd best defensive mid in the comp in Hewett.

If it was a debate on who is the most skilled mid, then I get a Jagga over Hewett. But if not Hewett, who will play the defensive mid role for us?? Lord? Cerra (this experiment has failed IMO)? rotate a few guys through this role such as Cripps (This can work but you need good cohesion and communication... Serong, Brayshaw and Young are a good example of this where they swap defensive role/s at each stoppage)?

 

[katmanblue]

Watch his Geelong game last year (when we won). I thought he was very clever in where he positioned and ran post stoppage. He was getting hard tagged by Atkins early on and then ultimately went to Dangerfield and made Danger have to be accountable. It was a bit like Walshy saying "c'mon old boy, you're gonna follow me around for a while".

You might say that's simply good coaching but you have to smart enough to execute that and Walshy was.

He got 33 + a goal and Danger finished with 17 and was chasing tail all night.

He works harder than anyone. But sometimes I think he's tiring himself out so much he doesn't have the spare energy to think.

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[JustaBattler]

One problem is that I don't think Walsh is a very cunning footballer.

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Ysep - a most disappointing indicator of his development - to date. Needs to fix this fast.

 

[Aphrodite]

On the Hewett discussion - imo, Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett will/should be our 4 core mids. Jagga will play as much mid as his experience/body allows with the rest of time off a flank. Elijah will be the 6th rotating mid. We will then get bursts from other bursty smalls.

For better or worse, that is OUR midfield. It can be a fantastic midfield when up and running, as it has been when it has been up and running.

Lord and maybe Doc the primary depth mids.

For mine, Hewett is chronicly underrated. But everyone has their own leanings.

I personally can't see Doc as the Doc of old anymore. He has missed so much footy and his body has been through so much, that i see him as a shadow of the old Doc. To me, he is the one who will struggle to get in our "mythical" Best 23.

Whereas Hewett is integral.

You need to fix your sig



1 Flag 27 Spoons - It Aint No Fluke

 

[TerryWallet]

You need to fix your sig



1 Flag 27 Spoons - It Aint No Fluke

Have thought about it a while back, but opted to retain it as a symbol of the fact that the essence of the sig is the same today as it was when i joined back in 2008 when The Aints were "flying" and the coming "Juggernaut".

 

[Sector 7G]

One problem is that I don't think Walsh is a very cunning footballer.

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Looked like he had plenty of smarts when he won player of the finals series in 2023. Think he was just struggling with his body last year.

 

[Soapy V]

The fact of the matter is, as pointed out by Earls Smother, when we had all players available last season Hewett was dropped twice to the sub position. I think he is clearly not a 'lock' and we would like a more attacking midfield in many circumstances this year.

I think your point is fair. I don't buy this "lock" stuff. Hewett is a bloody good player but there is a sameness about our midfield and he does get exposed when we are defending in space. My concern is playing these inside players all at once. Fair to say Cripps & Walsh won't be dropped. A fit Cerra is a hybrid type, Smith will add some class and dash as can Docherty & Elijah. All pre season Motlop Durdin Williams have had bursts in the middle and I am sure that is Voss trying to add some more pace. I'm a massive fan of Lord but can't see him in same side as Cripps Walsh & Hewett

The question for me is around balance and the best mix

 

[The Bighouse]

I think your point is fair. I don't buy this "lock" stuff. Hewett is a bloody good player but there is a sameness about our midfield and he does get exposed when we are defending in space. My concern is playing these inside players all at once. Fair to say Cripps & Walsh won't be dropped. A fit Cerra is a hybrid type, Smith will add some class and dash as can Docherty & Elijah. All pre season Motlop Durdin Williams have had bursts in the middle and I am sure that is Voss trying to add some more pace. I'm a massive fan of Lord but can't see him in same side as Cripps Walsh & Hewett

The question for me is around balance and the best mix

Think we usually play our best football when George is performing well.

Pace/sameness is our issue but it’s not noticeable when we’re flying. Skills still have a lot to do with it, ball retention & hitting targets vs chasing tail/defending.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Think we usually play our best football when George is performing well.

Pace/sameness is our issue but it’s not noticeable when we’re flying. Skills still have a lot to do with it, ball retention & hitting targets vs chasing tail/defending.

Other side to that coin is - when Hewett isn't performing at his absolute best, does the team performance as a whole suffer?

We're evidently going to try and add some variety to our midfield setups, based on the guys who are rolling through there during preseason - if you want to split 20+ CBAs between Smith, Motlop, Doc and Hollands, for example, then you've either got find other positions that Cripps, Walsh, Cerra and Hewett can roll through, or you drop one of them.

 

[gbatman]

The game has changed in the last few seasons, it's more open and more of a running game with the ability to run up and back at pace and use pace to close down opposition ball carriers becoming more important. Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett etc would have been fine pre anti-congestion rules thought still a little slow/immobile.

I can see us using Cripps forward a little more. I can also see us using Smith forward and E Hollands forward and midfield.

Last year it was really evident the change when we had the mix right in the middle. Cripps Walsh and Cerra was a really mobile and balanced unit. Cripps, Hewett and Cerra/Walsh was good when the game was on our terms but it worked well. Cripps, Kennedy and Hewett was disastrous, we just got smashed. Our mix dictates how the opposition play against us. If we go too slow and immobile, teams would go out of their way to get the ball out wide and into space and just out run us. If we went too light sides would look to keep it in close so we need a structure where neither of those tactics work particularly well against us.

I can see Lord in the side at some stage. He's a big body and a good contested ball winner but he covers ground really quickly. Lord is by no means slow. His outside pace is decent but his inside pace is very good. He covers 3-10 meters much much quicker than Hewett and would even give Cerra a run for his money. This, along with his attitude, is why he racks up big tackle numbers. This sort of thing is what won Collingwood the flag a few seasons ago. This is why I think he is a really good shot at playing senior footy next season because he adds something that we lack, he brings a strength that as a team is a weakness for us.

There is going to be an onus on our midfield as to how well it performs when the ball is not in our hands. We don't chase well and that's become a big part of modern footy. I think we can hurt and do a lot of damage when we are winning the ball but otherwise this will be our barometer. I think this is the reason Lord could be elevated. He chases well, runs opponents down and he can also play footy and run on the outside as well as perform on the inside. He is what I would call a modern midfielder.

If it is between Hewett and Lord and Lord can elevate his offensive game to being similar to Hewett then it's Lord and it's not even close. This is where the modern game is at right now.

Hewett moves reasonably well when he's fit, his strength in the contest is good and he's a smart player but there are situations when he gets exposed and the coaches would be well aware of this. He doesn't get as exposed as Kennedy but he still does when it comes to defending/pressure application.

I think we are going to have to figure this out as the season goes on. Selection at this point will not be easy.