List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Mowman]

Time to pack it in. We are getting a warm cup of piss this off-season and if Nas leaves we are destined for years of misery. Good luck keeping the actual young talent we have if that happens. The rest of the big boys will come to hoover them up quick smart.

It will be fine we have Gubby and SOS all over it

 

[pebblesofsand]

King had missed the last 2 months of the season and still had 2 full years to go on his existing contract when it was extended.

Lyon has said on many occasions that King took significant unders when he signed the extension.

Begs the question - why would either party sign it?

Insurance policy for Max? A gamble by the club?

 

[L_W_P]

King had missed the last 2 months of the season and still had 2 full years to go on his existing contract when it was extended.

Lyon has said on many occasions that King took significant unders when he signed the extension.

Begs the question - why would either party sign it?

Insurance policy for Max? A gamble by the club?

Rekon it's a bit of both.

Max & his manager might have had some concerns around his body, the games missed etc and the club may have seen an opportunity to sell him some long term security on decent money.

It's honestly just laughable at this point.

From the moment we pushed Josh Bruce out the door Max has had the pressure/expectation of being our F50 superstar.

He's been double teamed, beaten up, crashed into, pushed, pulled, scragged and suffered through multiple seasons of having the ball bombed on his head because he's tall.

Look at the way the Dogs use Darcy alongside Naughton, JUH/Khamis, Weightman etc vs how we've treated Max.

The long term planning and development all have to be seriously questioned.

I honestly don't see a way out of the situation at this point. We just have to cross our fingers and enjoy whatever games we get out of him but, realistically, he can't be relied on to be our #1 KPF for the medium-long term which means that's another critical role we are going to have to go recruiting...

 

[Saintbloke]

Rekon it's a bit of both.

Max & his manager might have had some concerns around his body, the games missed etc and the club may have seen an opportunity to sell him some long term security on decent money.

It's honestly just laughable at this point.

From the moment we pushed Josh Bruce out the door Max has had the pressure/expectation of being our F50 superstar.

He's been double teamed, beaten up, crashed into, pushed, pulled, scragged and suffered through multiple seasons of having the ball bombed on his head because he's tall.

Look at the way the Dogs use Darcy alongside Naughton, JUH/Khamis, Weightman etc vs how we've treated Max.

The long term planning and development all have to be seriously questioned.

I honestly don't see a way out of the situation at this point. We just have to cross our fingers and enjoy whatever games we get out of him but, realistically, he can't be relied on to be our #1 KPF for the medium-long term which means that's another critical role we are going to have to go recruiting...

Playing as a key position forward, you have to put up with what comes at you and stamp yourself on your position, so what if you haven't got perfect delivery, or you have to fight a bit harder in contests. Max is a great player, but could be better, though his eggshell body isn't helping.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Modern football eh?

I mean, I don't think this is a news flash. No one has doubted he doesn't want to leave Carlton, but we have offered stupid money that he can't refuse.

 

[snails13]

King ruled out for the year..

So a week after the Mid Season Draft w

King ruled out for the year..

So we find out this news a week after Mid Season Draft

 

[saintbill]

Even David King who is somewhat sympathetic to the Saints called the King extension the dumbest contract in AFL history.

This one is truly indefensible, and this is not Harry hindsight here. Many of us where stunned when this contract extension came out.

TDK is a no for me. Bottom out, accept we are crap for another 5 years. Do it probably this time.

 

[MrFoster]

Rekon it's a bit of both.

Max & his manager might have had some concerns around his body, the games missed etc and the club may have seen an opportunity to sell him some long term security on decent money.

It's honestly just laughable at this point.

From the moment we pushed Josh Bruce out the door Max has had the pressure/expectation of being our F50 superstar.

He's been double teamed, beaten up, crashed into, pushed, pulled, scragged and suffered through multiple seasons of having the ball bombed on his head because he's tall.

Look at the way the Dogs use Darcy alongside Naughton, JUH/Khamis, Weightman etc vs how we've treated Max.

The long term planning and development all have to be seriously questioned.

I honestly don't see a way out of the situation at this point. We just have to cross our fingers and enjoy whatever games we get out of him but, realistically, he can't be relied on to be our #1 KPF for the medium-long term which means that's another critical role we are going to have to go recruiting...

Exactly, Riewoldt should have played a year more to provide leadership and let younger players to develop, so does Bruce, Membrey and Ryder. Our forward planning like other parts of the ground is poor to say the least.

Midfield is the key. What’s the point of getting luxury players like Hill or key forwards when you can’t win the ball and deliver it effectively inside 50..

Richardson, Ratten were all shortsighted and couldn’t see our midfield basket case to save themselves. This should really be the priority this off season.

 

[Ads734]

So once again who is going to take responsibility for this….

Basset
Ross
gubby
Sos

We’re paying members. We deserve some kind of consequence.

 

[The Punter]

So once again who is going to take responsibility for this….

Basset
Ross
gubby
Sos

We’re paying members. We deserve some kind of consequence.

Some kind of consequence is so wonderfully vague.

Do you want people to lose their jobs? If so, whom?

 

[gringo2011]

Has some urgency about him. I like

You've missed my point.

I'm not saying player development isn't a big issue.

I'm saying the alignment changes none of that. We choose the coaches and decide the game plan. We develop the players.

The issues Sandy have are just going to follow us because ultimately we are running the program.

If we don't stack the side with mature solid VFL players we'll never be competitive. Sandy has had a near full clean out from last year and put in lots of very young players. It hasn't been set up to win games. Other clubs must have money outside the cap because Melbourne, Essendon, Hawks and Geelong always have a stack of quality talent.

 

[Mowman]

Some kind of consequence is so wonderfully vague.

Do you want people to lose their jobs? If so, whom?

Do you want people not to be responsible and accountable for what they do ?

If people aren’t doing their role to the highest standards happy for them to get the boot

 

[gringo2011]

Rofl so in other words we are so ****ing shit he's hoping we can be used as leverage now to get something better at Carlton.

Awesome work st kilda.

I've been going on and on about it. You have to make yourself attractive first. We aren't showing anything yet. We probably look less certain to rise than North Melbourne externally. We have a poor perception due to being extraordinarily uncompetitive.

Quick fixes stuffed up Carlton and Essendon for years as well us us. Eventually Carlton drafted their way out. Essendon and Saints have been doing it since.

Luke Hodge was reminding people that the first part of his career was playing in bottom of the ladder sides. I think he said it was 7 years before they won that first GF.

Until we create the perception of momentum no-one high profile will come. We need to go for money ball and lower profile players. Guys stuck outside the best 22. It is were we are at and they need to get to work instead of whining.

 

[gringo2011]

Some kind of consequence is so wonderfully vague.

Do you want people to lose their jobs? If so, whom?

What has Gubby done since arriving? Grabbed us a bunch of B graders at top dollar in trade capital and money.

 

[Ads734]

Some kind of consequence is so wonderfully vague.

Do you want people to lose their jobs? If so, whom?

Mission
S and C
SOS

If players don’t perform they get delisted. If you don’t perform in your job you might get a chance to improve or you may be fired. The decision making regarding injury management and list management not ‘drafting’ has been horrible.
Perhaps I should clarify , at the very least an explanation.

 

[The Punter]

Do you want people not to be responsible and accountable for what they do ?

If people aren’t doing their role to the highest standards happy for them to get the boot

Yes, but this is often trotted out (especially in politics) then specifics are not mentioned. I merely asked for the specific suggestion regarding accountability.

 

[Minga]

Pessimists eating good this week

 

[Saintbloke]

I've been going on and on about it. You have to make yourself attractive first. We aren't showing anything yet. We probably look less certain to rise than North Melbourne externally. We have a poor perception due to being extraordinarily uncompetitive.

Quick fixes stuffed up Carlton and Essendon for years as well us us. Eventually Carlton drafted their way out. Essendon and Saints have been doing it since.

Luke Hodge was reminding people that the first part of his career was playing in bottom of the ladder sides. I think he said it was 7 years before they won that first GF.

Until we create the perception of momentum no-one high profile will come. We need to go for money ball and lower profile players. Guys stuck outside the best 22. It is were we are at and they need to get to work instead of whining.

Hawks vs Saints- one is smart knows how to succeed, the other isn't too bright and doesn't. Clarkson's style of game was pretty evident in his first couple of seasons with the Hawks, and he just kept at it and refining it, as well as smart recruiting along the way, and I remember Jason Dunstall saying that they went for the best talent regardless of what position they played. I see no particular Lyon brand of football at all after three seasons.

 

[The Punter]

Hawks vs Saints- one is smart knows how to succeed, the other isn't too bright and doesn't. Clarkson's style of game was pretty evident in his first couple of seasons with the Hawks, and he just kept at it and refining it, as well as smart recruiting along the way, and I remember Jason Dunstall saying that they went for the best talent regardless of what position they played. I see no particular Lyon brand of football at all after three seasons.

There were some absolute gift trades that sped up the Hawks rebuild.

Personally I think any comparison to a list build pre-GWS/GC/Abolition of automatic priority picks is not terribly informative as to what we should do now.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

The club have done pretty well attempting to hide it, but we are unquestionably in full rebuild mode.

Our list is paper thin with holes everywhere and we are long way from being a competitive club. You only have to watch our VFL side for a half to see how little depth we have and how poorly run that alignment is. We do have some good kids coming through, but as has been proven time and again unless they are surrounded by quality they rarely reach their full potential.

Unfortunately I think we will stitch up a bottom 4 position from here in, the club should have conceded last season but Lyon got his way.

I am like others I have zero faith in SOS and Gubby to rebuild a list and Lyon had his head up his arse thinking they could remain competitive whilst rebuilding.

The club got it completely wrong thinking they could build a premiership team around a skinny tall forward who moves like Bambi.A player who came to the club with a serious injury and hasnt done enough to build on his frame in his time. Max's body is that unreliable he is a liability and the club needs to completely move past him. If in the interim we can find a decent alternative then it should be bye bye Max!

 

[jimmytigs]

Given the 72 point loss and today's Max King news, I'd say this would be a good week to announce Nas has re-signed...

But we St Kilda supporters don't get to have nice things. And I'm sure this week will be just as disasterous, as is the way with this club.

I can't remember feeling as deflated as a Saints fan since the end of Brett Ratten's tenure. Or the end of the Alan Richardson's tenure. Or the end of the Scott Watters' tenure. Or the day we learnt Ross was abandoning us for Fremnatle.

Basically, I've been deflated since the 2010 Grand Final replay and now I have to watch the two teams that beat us over 15 years ago make finals every year, win multiple premierships, appear in countless Grand Finals, pick up star players and Brownlow Medallists for peanuts etc.

How much more can St Kilda supporters take? No wonder 20 people showed up to the game on Thursday night.

nah i expected no different outcome with Max,sad for him,but i had programmed this into my mindset going forward,business as usual for me,i just hope there is clarity now,its fixable or not?whatever the case at least we can plan knowing

it is the way though,we get a number 4 pick,could be anything,shows plenty of good signs,then this,this is why i just want the tdk's of this world,give me anything,3 pre season flags was good back in the day,thats where we are at as saints fans,hey im even the only person i know of carrying on about an in our face injustice,re anzac day and the other big games,the club and noone else seems to care(unless bassett is giving it to them behind closed doors),we should be bleeting the fxxx about that,but we arent

so while we arent sticking up for ourselves aside from nepo babies,which is damn good,give me the sugar hits,give me tdk bergman and whoever

 

[The Punter]

 

[jumperfan]

Would be extremely helpful but given they didn’t even give North proper priority picks I can’t see a world in which we get them. It would also undermine Bassat’s position against the academies/father son etc.

 

[The Punter]

Would be extremely helpful but given they didn’t even give North proper priority picks I can’t see a world in which we get them. It would also undermine Bassat’s position against the academies/father son etc.

Who at North has fallen off the face of the footballing earth due to plain bad luck?

McCartin (#1 pick - concussion)
Roberton (2017 AA squad, five more career games - heart)
King (#4 pick - knee)

Not to mention Stevens, Steven, Longer, Crouch...

Or perhaps we should just get better at developing... fewer undiagnosed heart conditions?

(BTW, we should absolutely improve our development, but our issues are not just one thing)

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Even David King who is somewhat sympathetic to the Saints called the King extension the dumbest contract in AFL history.

This one is truly indefensible, and this is not Harry hindsight here. Many of us where stunned when this contract extension came out.

TDK is a no for me. Bottom out, accept we are crap for another 5 years. Do it probably this time.

Max has a games trigger for 2028-2032.

Which at this stage it very sadly looks to be triggered.

So realistically Max has 2 guaranteed years after this & then anything beyond that is TBC.