List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Joffaboy]

Bye this weekend for Sandy and then four games left. Anyone know if Armstrong might be up for a game before the end of the season?

Not for what I saw yesterday
Ok getting a list of players wanting to come to us but we reneged
Caldwell
Xerri
Kemp
Anderson ( thanks gringo forgot about him)
Getting some empirical evidence now we may be hard to deal with.
We whinge about not getting players we go for, but which of the above would not have made us better?

 

[SaintsofSteel]

We wont know whether SOS and the club have pulled the right levers with the list rebuild for another couple of years. I can see what the club are trying to do, but you have to question when our fortunes will finally turn.

SOS Positives:
Off loading Billings and Gresham were definitely a big tick for SOS!
Extracting and signing Caminiti was a huge sucess = tick!
We added a delisted Liam Stocker

14

Liam Stocker

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

, who has become a solid player = tick!
Macrae last year and his experience has been invaluable. He is a bit of a victim of our young midfield group as most weeks he has worn a tagger, but given the speed of the game you can see why the Bulldogs were keen to get his salary off their books = tick!
I see Tauru playing a Tom Stewart/Sicily type role moving forward. If he becomes a mutliple AA the Battle trade will be a win, but that is years away for the kid to get to those levels. Prospective tick!
It looks likely we will end up adding at the minimum TDK and Aleer to our list - tick!
Drafting has continued to improve since he arrived (Dalrymple) = tick!

SOS Neutrals:
NAS, Windhager and others not signed nearing the end of the year = questionable???
Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

26

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

and more recently Jack Carroll both still have a major ???
Not being in a position to take a player at the mid season draft was questionable.
Releasing Membrey who would have been handy this year ?

SOS Negatives:
Inability to attract an elite midfielder is a huge fail for SOS and the club = fail.
The loss of Battle who regardless of the circumstances, he was the best CHB we have had at the club for sometime = significant loss.
Not recruiting a ready to play CHB after losing Battle = fail.
Most think Marshall will ask to leave and Steele(?) has also been looking around = significant loss.
Recruitment of Harry Boyd was a complete waste of a list position = loss.

Regardless of our ladder position in the main SOS and the club have got most things right as far as player movements are concerned. As a list manager it would be difficult to cover the injuries to key players we have had since his arrival.

I highly doubt it will occur, but if we can turn Marshall and or Steele into quality draft picks that will be another win!

 

[gringo2011]

Geelong were largely the exception, not the rule… but there’s a fair portion of both Brisbane and Collingwoods best who fit the bill.

2024 Brisbane Lions:
Ah Chee, McCluggage, Berry, Dunkley, Rayner, Hipwood, Andrews, Starcevich and Bailey were all in the 23-28 old bracket on grand final day.

2023 Collingwood:
Darcy Moore, Maynard, Quaynor, Bobby Hill, McCreery, De Goey, Josh Daicos, Darcy Cameron

There is a pretty decent formula that should hold up where you have a quarter in the over 27 group and quarter in the under 22 group and the other half in that mid tier. That should be a solid set up. Too many in the youth group creates uneven performance. The Dogs and other have played young sides and are still winning and they won a flag with the same sort of set up as us.

None of it matters if you don't have a spread of talent anyway. Our list is as good as it's been for years. We should have uneven performance due to age profiles but we are consistently learning to lose honourably under Lyon. He needs to win games to reward players for our very taxing game plan and keep fans turning up.

 

[gringo2011]

Hahahaha what? He's about half the width and weight. He's got good hands though and a solid kick.
Derksen has been linked to Melbourne for as long as we've had him.
Leeks gonna be a great pickup

More in his lead up style not build. He seems to run straight at the ball. We haven't had anyone that can lead at a foot in years.

 

[Joffaboy]

Hope so. Hope we look around at others though too. Having a guy that takes the reins from a bottom 4 coach that has learned the same system might not be enough to change things up. Getting a coach out of a really strong winning system is probably a safer bet. It might end up that Boris is the best candidate but you'd want a process to make sure.

Well that would then be a worrying pattern. I supported the Lyon appointment, still do, but he was the only candidate and there was no search process.
If however a Longmire came along. I might be willing to not go down the interview path again.

 

[gringo2011]

Callum Brown? Hadn't heard he was on the move. Hopefully. Suuuuper handy

Our Irish guy Armstrong.

 

[PaythePerryman]

More in his lead up style not build. He seems to run straight at the ball. We haven't had anyone that can lead at a foot in years.

Yeah that's true. His leading patterns are great and his VFL form has been solid.
Yet to see him show a lot going up to AFL level but we will get another look at it tonight.

 

[gringo2011]

Losing Battle and Howard ( and backup Cordy) and having a great prospect in Tauru really put paid to the best line we had in the team in 2024.
I am not a huge fan of Caminiti and even less so in defence although a season down back can fast track his development.
Not getting Kemp was a mistake. We complain about not getting players but then there are three who wanted to come that we bailed on, those being Caldwell, Xerri ( might be a superstar) and Kemp. All would have made the team better in my opinion.
Would need to look who we got for those picks the other clubs wanted, I think we at least drafted Barrat with the Kemp pick. Barrat looks a prospect for future not 2025.
You are correct, we didn't cover Battle with experience, hoping, McLennon or O'Connell would do it. I found that worrisome during trade time and was borne out when we lost any height down back.
Tauru looks terrific, but is learning. Twice he has cost us goals in two tight games from direct turnovers. I don't mind, you expect that from kids learning and his upside is tremendous, but in my view the most serious mistake the club made was not covering Battle with experience.

Would Kemp have been the answer? Probably not, but it would have freed Hammer to go forward where our other glaring deficiency lay, not key forward.

Basically lost three key forwards for the year, Membrey who left, Caminiti to defence, King to rehab. Now Membrey and Caminiti aren't tall key forwards, however Skunk is very experienced, and Caminiti is young and athletic, would have stretched the opposition defence much more.
We saw a bit of height in Heath keeping the ball in play by at least contesting and not giving the defence simple intercept marks.
Really our woes stemmed from not covering Battle. Kemp did a knee, but may not if he had come to us.

I think Hammer is better than Howard but you do lose your back up KPF by playing him back.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah that's true. His leading patterns are great and his VFL form has been solid.
Yet to see him show a lot going up to AFL level but we will get another look at it tonight.

I think that's more that he has to sit in among some absolute stars and is more playing as a decoy. In the VFL he looks excellent. I want to steal Wardius too. We'll give you some cap space if you give us a pile of fringe players.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[SaintOfLondon]

Callum Brown? Hadn't heard he was on the move. Hopefully. Suuuuper handy

Suuuuuper enjoyable seeing you look like an idiot with your response

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Too soy-boy for you boss?

 

[westernsainter]

With all due respect, and I’m not targeting you specifically here, but this mentally is exactly the issue. 15 years of mostly shit but this time it’ll be different… even though we’re bottom 6. If by 2027 we’re still shit we will still have true believers either backing in another 5 years of Ross or backing in some new coach for another 5 year rebuild.

It’s basically north Melbourne at this point, just accept mediocrity because we’ve got some nice kids.

Hit the nail on the head here.

There is absolutely nothing happening right now that wasn't happening in 2016. We are full of absolute plodders who we either have some bizarre sunk cost fallacy about (Stocker, Clark, Dow) and young guys who supporters seem to think are going to lead us to the next step besides having had a stack of people in their draft classes blow past them in terms of ability and continue to blow that gap wide open:

Hastie and Wilson both taken in the same draft as Reid, Watson, Sanders, Windsor, Curtin, Caddy, Freijah - all cemented in teams half of whom are more competitive than us.

Pou (I'll give him a bit more credit but the injuries are starting to stress me out) taken in the same draft as Ashcroft, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Humphrey, Ginbey, Fletcher. All cemented 22 that opposition fans talk about.

Windhager and Owens the same draft as JHF, Darcy, Callaghan, Daicos, Andrew, Rachele, Wilmot, Lohmann (and others). All cemented 22 that opposition fans talk about. That year we drafted Nas who is a genuine gun and now he's looking certain to be out the door.

Our list and named 23 each week is chock full of guys who are - to be perfectly frank - absolute nobodies to anyone outside of St Kilda. There are guys getting regular selection that if delisted I don't think would get a look in at a single other club in the league.

And yet - for some reason that I cannot comprehend - we all seem to think we are on a great path? The rebuild is going great? We have a stack of future AA guys on our list and despite falling back into the bottom four we've got a great coach for the future?

I see everyone on twitter going after Cornes, Hodge and the panel on the AFL site for saying things that are plainly true! We are accepting losses far too easily! While the list has turned over from Ratten, of the 26 guys who played more than ten games in his last season, 16 of them are still on our list, and of the ten that did leave half of them are still on a list somewhere and in the cases of Membrey and Long are playing better footy than most of the guys we have kept around. We simply have not gone under some radical rebuild and we don't seem to have any great assets to deal that wouldn't lead us to be absolutely cemented in the bottom four.

On top of all that we have a list manager who has frankly failed at pretty much every single job he has and seems borderline addicted to doubling down on his errors. When he left GWS for Carlton he went on a raiding job and brought in household names such as Kristian Jaksch, Mark Whiley, Jed Lamb, Andrew Phillips, Lachie Plowman, Liam Sumner, Caleb Marchbank, Jarrod Pickett and Rhys Palmer. What does he do at the Saints? Doubles down on Stocker (lowest rated General Defender in the competition to play ten games this year) and Dow, both players any Blues fan you ask will tell you are busts.

Any notion that we are tracking in any sort of positive direction that is going to lead to sustained success seems built on absolutely nothing in reality. With Nas going we are staring squarely down the barrel of another bottom four finish next year and can expect to come to the end of that season with the following regularly featured players the wrong side of 30: Hill, Wood, Webster, Macrae, Sinclair, Marshall, Steele and Wilkie.

Things are not going well and the entire club from the coach down should be squarely in the gun.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I think Hammer is better than Howard but you do lose your back up KPF by playing him back.

I agree Hammer is a better defender than forward, but if we had Howard or another option in defence there is no doubt he would have played forward.

Hammer still has a lot to learn in the game and he giving away dumb frees in defence has people questioning where he is best suited. The reckoner is he gave away dumb frees when forward also, it's something he simply has to get better at but he will improve.

No one can question his efforts though, he is an absolute ripper in my view. You don't see the lack of effort or blaming team mates we see when Howard is out there. It's his footy IQ that needs a lot of work.

I see Hammer as our long term full back. But he may have to move forward to fill a role until we can find others.

 

[SaintSteele9]

I just can’t get that excited by a guy who plays hbf and looks like an uber driver.

Players come and go but the club survives. If Sydney had stuck with the hard tag he’d have had under 20 including kick outs. Talk of $2 million a year is crazy, ask the Adelaide clubs for the world and send Nas home.

If they don’t come to the party then say he’s going to the draft and watch the afl find a way to salvage the situation.

Man I’ve read some stuff over the years on this forum, but this takes the cake.

 

[SaintersUnite]

If Ross sees Caminiti as our long term FB and currently ahead of Dougal, do we consider training Howard as a forward in the offseason? He had a spell there while at Port and did an alright job.

Tell him it’s either that or he’s delisted.

 

[jwikked]

Of course there is

Not really. The expectation is there, but nothing concrete

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Wade ****ing Derksen... More made up names.

 

[UnfinishedBusiness]

Can we start pinning any posts with Tony’s mail?

 

[gringo2011]

If Ross sees Caminiti as our long term FB and currently ahead of Dougal, do we consider training Howard as a forward in the offseason? He had a spell there while at Port and did an alright job.

Tell him it’s either that or he’s delisted.

I think he's depth at best. Realistically he's playing less and less each year and ageing. I'd probably delist him and try to find a younger back up with scope for improvement.

 

[SG34]

Our last win was against Melbourne.
And we were lucky! Melbourne had 28 scoring shots to our 21. In Alice, due to them selling a game. (Thank you Melbourne)
Look at the players in that game.

What succession plan? There isn’t one.

There might be an expectation that Corey Enright is next in line, but there’s no plan there.

I thought Chris Scott was keeping the seat warm for Corey Enwright, but my TV screen tells me Ross has him as ‘First mate on the bridge’

 

[saintbill]

That is huge. Certainly getting more excited about the though of getting Aleer. Hopefully we get it done.

 

[Joffaboy]

If Ross sees Caminiti as our long term FB and currently ahead of Dougal, do we consider training Howard as a forward in the offseason? He had a spell there while at Port and did an alright job.

Tell him it’s either that or he’s delisted.

Caminiti is not better than Howard. He would be much better with Howard in the team.
It is the sum of the parts that make a good backline combo.
Our strongest line was Howard, Wilkie, Battle, Webster and a couple of smalls.

Howard taking the monsters ( Caminiti on the fence at training before the Bulldogs game saying Darcy had 15 cm on him) Wilks and Tauru the intercept markers, Aleer and Hammer taking the other forwards with Stocker looks so much better.
I feel that Howard is chronically underrated on this forum and while not a premier back, is a very accurate kick and if he does the simple stuff is very effective, and adds greatly to our structure of the backline.

 

[Joffaboy]

Our last win was against Melbourne.
And we were lucky! Melbourne had 28 scoring shots to our 21. In Alice, due to them selling a game. (Thank you Melbourne)
Look at the players in that game.


I thought Chris Scott was keeping the seat warm for Corey Enwright, but my TV screen tells me Ross has him as ‘First mate on the bridge’

Conversely our last two losses were Freo and Sydney and we were unlucky.

 

[billings2paddy]

That is huge. Certainly getting more excited about the though of getting Aleer. Hopefully we get it done.

Must have played for Carlton