List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[phantom13]

I keep my own records, will try to make it more accessible one day

Sounds legit

 

[SainterinSydney]

I think our list building has been excellent and will show real fruit in the next few years. We have brought players in whilst keep FRDPs and getting late bargains--Owens, Windy, Garcia, Dodson, Keeler and Box to name a few.

We keep Nas, bring in Aleer, bring in TDK, and likely someone else--we will shoot up the ladder next year. This is the most excited I've been about a St Kilda list since the early to mid 2000s (2009 and 2010 team being the fruit of that earlier list building).

If people on here can't see it, you will at least be in for a pleasant surprise.

 

[phantom13]

I think our list building has been excellent and will show real fruit in the next few years. We have brought players in whilst keep FRDPs and getting late bargains--Owens, Windy, Garcia, Dodson, Keeler and Box to name a few.

We keep Nas, bring in Aleer, bring in TDK, and likely someone else--we will shoot up the ladder next year. This is the most excited I've been about a St Kilda list since the early to mid 2000s (2009 and 2010 team being the fruit of that earlier list building).

If people on here can't see it, you will at least be in for a pleasant surprise.

A lot of ifs in there mate. That’s sort of the point.

I can absolutely see the plan, hell I like the plan, but it’s just that, a plan, it’s achieved ****ing nothing yet.

 

[SainterinSydney]

A lot of ifs in there mate. That’s sort of the point.

I can absolutely see the plan, hell I like the plan, but it’s just that, a plan, it’s achieved ****ing nothing yet.

No guarantees in life. I think though we are doing everything we can to get future success. I also think we start winning and we will start getting good players wanting to join us ala Geelong.

It's a long term plan and it was a diabolical mess they had to clean up. I think they have done a very efficient job thus far.

 

[jumperfan]

A lot of ifs in there mate. That’s sort of the point.

I can absolutely see the plan, hell I like the plan, but it’s just that, a plan, it’s achieved ****ing nothing yet.

What club’s list isn’t full of ifs? Could’ve said the same about Adelaide 2-3 years ago and look where they are now.

 

[Sainter88]

Wasn’t it via text as well? His missus probably typed it out, spell checked and sent it for him too.

Well Battle is a cuck so it wouldn’t surprise me to be honest

 

[phantom13]

What club’s list isn’t full of ifs? Could’ve said the same about Adelaide 2-3 years ago and look where they are now.

Still say it now, they’ve won nothing yet.

 

[billings2paddy]

Honestly that’s hardly the case.
Boyd and Bonner were and are 1 season stop gaps.

Carroll is a DFA free hit. Doesn’t hurt us in anyway shape or form.

Henry when fit and in form is best 18. His injury isn’t a poor reflection on him coming across.

Dow was a flyer on his talent in the midst of us gutting our senior depth. Been injured and cost minimal.

Membrey - we know he is a good player. But you wouldn’t be seeing Keeler or Heath if he was here

Battle… I’ll take Tauru.

Tauru everyday of the week

 

[Speck]

So who is the Leek Aleer key forward equivalent? Still a big missing piece.

 

[ScrappyDo]

A lot of ifs in there mate. That’s sort of the point.

I can absolutely see the plan, hell I like the plan, but it’s just that, a plan, it’s achieved ****ing nothing yet.

 

[billings2paddy]

I’m quite sure at some point Camma was also leading intercept marks as well (first few weeks when we weren’t pure shit).

Teams try to isolate defenders every week, save for Sam Taylor and Harris Andrews, forwards win, rules and modern footy help them enormously.

Camma lockdown, tauru and leek intercept, Wilkie the hybrid. Howard’s offering nothing more.

That's a decent backline with Barratt developing aswell

 

[billings2paddy]

Are you asking which players dominate VFL but struggle at AFL level?

Paton who?
We won't get him anyway he doesn't play for Carlton and we only draft Carlton players

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Dow has always had issues around disposal. He's pretty much like for like. Maybe a bit quicker. Carroll is outside mid cover with some scope for improvement. So far his injury run has held him back but looks okay. Real free hit stuff.

Hill looks a long way from 3 year deals. Probably on year by years from here. Max hasn't been resilient since we got him so not true. Boyd looks the only real misstep. Doesn't seem to have made a difference and probably should have backed Heath as a ruck back up.

Max played 18, 20 & 22 games in the 3 years leading into the contract extension. It it was a straight 4 yr deal no one would be complaining… once again, its a half & half deal just like Mac Andrew’s 10 yr contract.

If I’ve got the choice of Dow or Dunstan kicking for my life, I know who I’m choosing.

I’d be surprised if Hill’s deal is 3 years guaranteed. We didn’t get any real detail when it was announced but signing a 32 yr old to a locked in 3 year contract would be unlikely.

 

[phantom13]

So who is the Leek Aleer key forward equivalent? Still a big missing piece.

I don’t think the forward line is missing anything besides a fit King.

Structurally he makes an enormous difference drawing the best defender and pushing the second to Keeler/Heath/Dodson and then Sharman and Owens become nightmare match ups.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Hit the nail on the head here.

There is absolutely nothing happening right now that wasn't happening in 2016. We are full of absolute plodders who we either have some bizarre sunk cost fallacy about (Stocker, Clark, Dow) and young guys who supporters seem to think are going to lead us to the next step besides having had a stack of people in their draft classes blow past them in terms of ability and continue to blow that gap wide open:

Hastie and Wilson both taken in the same draft as Reid, Watson, Sanders, Windsor, Curtin, Caddy, Freijah - all cemented in teams half of whom are more competitive than us.

Pou (I'll give him a bit more credit but the injuries are starting to stress me out) taken in the same draft as Ashcroft, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Humphrey, Ginbey, Fletcher. All cemented 22 that opposition fans talk about.

Windhager and Owens the same draft as JHF, Darcy, Callaghan, Daicos, Andrew, Rachele, Wilmot, Lohmann (and others). All cemented 22 that opposition fans talk about. That year we drafted Nas who is a genuine gun and now he's looking certain to be out the door.

Our list and named 23 each week is chock full of guys who are - to be perfectly frank - absolute nobodies to anyone outside of St Kilda. There are guys getting regular selection that if delisted I don't think would get a look in at a single other club in the league.

And yet - for some reason that I cannot comprehend - we all seem to think we are on a great path? The rebuild is going great? We have a stack of future AA guys on our list and despite falling back into the bottom four we've got a great coach for the future?

I see everyone on twitter going after Cornes, Hodge and the panel on the AFL site for saying things that are plainly true! We are accepting losses far too easily! While the list has turned over from Ratten, of the 26 guys who played more than ten games in his last season, 16 of them are still on our list, and of the ten that did leave half of them are still on a list somewhere and in the cases of Membrey and Long are playing better footy than most of the guys we have kept around. We simply have not gone under some radical rebuild and we don't seem to have any great assets to deal that wouldn't lead us to be absolutely cemented in the bottom four.

On top of all that we have a list manager who has frankly failed at pretty much every single job he has and seems borderline addicted to doubling down on his errors. When he left GWS for Carlton he went on a raiding job and brought in household names such as Kristian Jaksch, Mark Whiley, Jed Lamb, Andrew Phillips, Lachie Plowman, Liam Sumner, Caleb Marchbank, Jarrod Pickett and Rhys Palmer. What does he do at the Saints? Doubles down on Stocker (lowest rated General Defender in the competition to play ten games this year) and Dow, both players any Blues fan you ask will tell you are busts.

Any notion that we are tracking in any sort of positive direction that is going to lead to sustained success seems built on absolutely nothing in reality. With Nas going we are staring squarely down the barrel of another bottom four finish next year and can expect to come to the end of that season with the following regularly featured players the wrong side of 30: Hill, Wood, Webster, Macrae, Sinclair, Marshall, Steele and Wilkie.

Things are not going well and the entire club from the coach down should be squarely in the gun.

The most important difference is that we have bonafide development coaches that will not piss away the talent of the kids we have.

 

[billings2paddy]

So who is the Leek Aleer key forward equivalent? Still a big missing piece

Sharman

 

[billings2paddy]

I don’t think the forward line is missing anything besides a fit King.

Structurally he makes an enormous difference drawing the best defender and pushing the second to Keeler/Heath/Dodson and then Sharman and Owens become nightmare match ups.

Dodson looks a natural forward

 

[ThomasR]

Sounds legit

maybe I wasn't clear, it's CD data, not my own. i just have it in a database so I can query things like this

 

[phantom13]

maybe I wasn't clear, it's CD data, not my own. i just have it in a database so I can query things like this

… sounds legit

 

[Minga]

 

[westernsainter]

I keep my own records, will try to make it more accessible one day

People are giving you shit for this but he does have a 39.4% loss rate this season so I can't imagine your number is far off. Fourth worst in the comp for key backs who have played a minimum of ten games this year.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh… so the jury is out would be absolutely appropriate

In which case my original point of those criticising him are laughable as there hasn’t been anything wrong with what he actually has done - would be pretty valid.

 

[westernsainter]

The only two young players we have on our list that I am bullish about ever achieving an AA blazer are Nas and Hall and neither of them are signed up. Grim stuff.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m quite sure at some point Camma was also leading intercept marks as well (first few weeks when we weren’t pure shit).

Teams try to isolate defenders every week, save for Sam Taylor and Harris Andrews, forwards win, rules and modern footy help them enormously.

Camma lockdown, tauru and leek intercept, Wilkie the hybrid. Howard’s offering nothing more.

It was total marks I believe. He's still 16th in the league. Wilkie on top. Same contested marks as Wilkie and Darcy Moore. Double Josh Battle.

In 1v1s he sits at around a 53.8% loss. Leek Aleer just below him with 57.1% loss. Vlastuin and Siciliy both in the 60% loss range. Strangely Jimmy Webster has a 100% loss rate in 1v1s. Hammer averages 2.6 a game defensive 1v1s Battle at 3. Aleer averaging 1.4 1v1s.

From Wheelo.

 

[phantom13]

In which case my original point of those criticising him are laughable as there hasn’t been anything wrong with what he actually has done - would be pretty valid.

I’d say achieving absolutely nothing leans more toward criticism than it does toward praise but I also don’t really care. Every supporter base thinks they’ve either got a good list or a developing list. We’re not objective at all.

I got all ****ing hot and bothered on potential at the back end of last year so I’m gonna keep my powder dry this year.

I can see the vision but I’m not getting excited until it does something.