List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[The Bighouse]

I don’t agree.
A lot of the criticism he cops is not proportional to his performance.

I can say for myself that his name is associated with a lot of swearing pre & post his surname due to gameday efforts.

The bad overrides the odd highlight IMO.

 

[Stamos]

I can say for myself that his name is associated with a lot of swearing pre & post his surname due to gameday efforts.

The bad overrides the odd highlight IMO.

You just made my point

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

I can say for myself that his name is associated with a lot of swearing pre & post his surname due to gameday efforts.

The bad overrides the odd highlight IMO.

You see what reflects your pre-existing view

 

[katmanblue]

Honestly don't get the Motlop hate. He's tracking beautifully for a young small forward.

It's easy to make bombastic claims - "(4th year) players with better stats have been delisted" - but harder to back them up with facts.

I wouldn't say beautifully, but he's nowhere near as bad as some have suggested. Has improved this year.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Could care less about his age tbh.
He's plays a position that is often considered plug & play but still seems a few years off as a quality option even if he does reach that level.
We require an upgrade at the position but continue to offer multi year deals to players that are probably not going to be difference makers rather than churning the list and trying alternatives.
That, that's what we're on..

Who considers what most commentators refer to as "starvation corner" and a lot of good analysts think is one of the hardest spots in modern football as "plug and play"?

Small forwards are expected to be a lead up option (look how often we kicked it to Motlop in a contest trying to exit defensive 50) & a crumbing option -generally in a very crowded forward 50, get back into defensive 50 to plug up a hole, make sure the block off the kick into the corridor and put on tackle pressure inside our forward 50 - it is a lot of hard running for often little reward and can take years to hone the craft.

1 of the things that Motlop gets no credit for is how often he was able to ensure we got a stoppage inside our forward 50 wither with tackle pressure or through gathering a ground ball in congestion before immediately being tackled. This allows us to lock the ball in our forward 50.

 

[Benaly28]

Just an observation.

The prelim sides ‘tall’ forwards.

Coll-Mihocek/Membrey
Lions-Gallup/Morris
Hawks-Gunston/Chol/Lewis
Cats-Neale/Cameron

Out of that lot theres only one superstar IMO,Cameron.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Just an observation.

The prelim sides ‘tall’ forwards.

Coll-Mihocek/Membrey
Lions-Gallup/Morris
Hawks-Gunston/Chol/Lewis
Cats-Neale/Cameron

Out of that lot theres only one superstar IMO,Cameron.

Gunston goes close. But agree

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Just an observation.

The prelim sides ‘tall’ forwards.

Coll-Mihocek/Membrey
Lions-Gallup/Morris
Hawks-Gunston/Chol/Lewis
Cats-Neale/Cameron

Out of that lot theres only one superstar IMO,Cameron.

The respective medium & small forwards for each club are very good though.

Surround your blue collar hard workers with classy finishers either way!

 

[bmaurizio]

Gunston at 33 years of age has been a a sublime footballer for a very long time, if left unguarded closely for a quater of football he can win a game off his on boot.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It's easy to make bombastic claims - "(4th year) players with better stats have been delisted" - but harder to back them up with facts.

I wouldn't say beautifully, but he's nowhere near as bad as some have suggested. Has improved this year.

I have no issue with people not rating certain players as it’s all subjective but when it comes to Motlop it’s the lack of alternatives people suggest that annoys me.

 

[JustaBattler]

It's easy to make bombastic claims - "(4th year) players with better stats have been delisted" - but harder to back them up with facts.

I wouldn't say beautifully, but he's nowhere near as bad as some have suggested. Has improved this year.

Only in the last few games leading upt ot contract time....

Who considers what most commentators refer to as "starvation corner" and a lot of good analysts think is one of the hardest spots in modern football as "plug and play"?

Small forwards are expected to be a lead up option (look how often we kicked it to Motlop in a contest trying to exit defensive 50) & a crumbing option -generally in a very crowded forward 50, get back into defensive 50 to plug up a hole, make sure the block off the kick into the corridor and put on tackle pressure inside our forward 50 - it is a lot of hard running for often little reward and can take years to hone the craft.

1 of the things that Motlop gets no credit for is how often he was able to ensure we got a stoppage inside our forward 50 wither with tackle pressure or through gathering a ground ball in congestion before immediately being tackled. This allows us to lock the ball in our forward 50.

Fair observation

However he is 'worth' a potential player contract cost - nothing more - and I think his management has discovered that the market thinks the same. It is all in his court now. Durdin was lucky to get his 2 years - I think under Wright - the days of easy contract extensions are - over.

 

[blue gunslinger]

It’s not hate, it’s how people rate.
Preference is for others in the side from what has been displayed in games.

nah Motlop became the whipping boy - the easy target people vented our team's efforts on. It is a massive over reaction.

 

[Sector 7G]

Just an observation.

The prelim sides ‘tall’ forwards.

Coll-Mihocek/Membrey
Lions-Gallup/Morris
Hawks-Gunston/Chol/Lewis
Cats-Neale/Cameron

Out of that lot theres only one superstar IMO,Cameron.

Morris has kicked 51 goals, Neal 42 and around 30 in the second half of the season both are good forwards. Chol has kicked 41 . All are good forwad options and not to be underestimated

 

[gbatman]

We have never prioritised this position since Eddie Betts & Jeffie Garlett left whilst Hawthorn traded in Ginnivan and used pick 5 on Watson, Brisbane took Rayner at pick 1 as a fwd/mid, Lohman with pick 20 and gave up pick 12 for Charlie Cameron, Cats bought in and developed Stengle and Pies have always had multiple small forward options. WE have always had this belief that we could pinch the diamond in the rough from the rookie draft to solve our small forward problem and its no coincidence we have the league's worst bunch of small forwards.

Went for guys like Sumner, Pickett, Smith, Lamb, Fisher, Jarrod Garlett, Fantasia, Fasolo, Fogarty, White, Young etc Hasn't really worked out.

Betts and Garlett were taken outside the National draft so weren't prioritised at the time either.

Moir and Motlop are examples of us prioritising the role. But so far have not hit their straps.

Hawks have a better eye for drafting forwards than us. Just comes down to that. Ability to identify traits that are key for the role.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

nah Motlop became the whipping boy - the easy target people vented our team's efforts on. It is a massive over reaction.

I think Motlops best, is best 22 all day...he goes missing in games though; reckon he needs a program revolved around preparation to help his consistency. Hope he stays around, has a high ceiling imo

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Went for guys like Sumner, Pickett, Smith, Lamb, Fisher, Jarrod Garlett, Fantasia, Fasolo, Fogarty, White, Young etc Hasn't really worked out.

Betts and Garlett were taken outside the National draft so weren't prioritised at the time either.

Moir and Motlop are examples of us prioritising the role. But so far have not hit their straps.

Hawks have a better eye for drafting forwards than us. Just comes down to that. Ability to identify traits that are key for the role.

This is true, but its much easier to identify them in the first round of the draft, they took Cyril Rioli pick 12, Nick Watson 5 and then hit jackpot with Luke Breust & gave up a 2 x second round + 3rd for Ginnivan.. We would not/have not done this instead we think our problems will be solved bringing in DFA Evans & Fantasia or Will White & Flynn Young.

Jack Martin was the only time you could say we have prioritised the small forward position and was unfortunate his body was made of glass. Even Jesse Motlop was a pick 27.

 

[Stamos]

& gave up a 2 x second round + 3rd for Ginnivan.

They also got back 2 x 2nd rounders and a 4th...

 

[Blue Pulse]

I think Motlops best, is best 22 all day...he goes missing in games though; reckon he needs a program revolved around preparation to help his consistency. Hope he stays around, has a high ceiling imo

Do you think he goes missing or more the fact the team went missing for periods of the game and our forward entries were pathetic? I feel consistency will come with maturity.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Gunston at 33 years of age has been a a sublime footballer for a very long time, if left unguarded closely for a quater of football he can win a game off his on boot.

He is a genuine forward who knows where to run to and the delivery to him is sublime. The fact that Nicks left Keane on him last week was mind boggling, Keane showed him no respect and was trying to zone off.

You can zone off against Carlton, you can't zone off against teams that can hit targets.

 

[morningbrown]

This is true, but its much easier to identify them in the first round of the draft, they took Cyril Rioli pick 12, Nick Watson 5 and then hit jackpot with Luke Breust & gave up a 2 x second round + 3rd for Ginnivan.. We would not/have not done this instead we think our problems will be solved bringing in DFA Evans & Fantasia or Will White & Flynn Young.

Jack Martin was the only time you could say we have prioritised the small forward position and was unfortunate his body was made of glass. Even Jesse Motlop was a pick 27.

To counter this, Mitch Lewis was the last pick of the draft, Calsher Dear in the 50s, Ginnivan originally a rookie pick, Dylan Moore pick 67. Our issue is that we basically never hit anything outside of the first round.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I think Motlops best, is best 22 all day...he goes missing in games though; reckon he needs a program revolved around preparation to help his consistency. Hope he stays around, has a high ceiling imo

I think he just needs to slim a bit, he’s an absolute ball of muscle and I reckon it affects his take off speed.

Remove some of the muscle and do plenty of off the mark sprint training.

I think he’s got enough attributes to be a really good player

 

[Michael Jezz]

Just an observation.

The prelim sides ‘tall’ forwards.

Coll-Mihocek/Membrey
Lions-Gallup/Morris
Hawks-Gunston/Chol/Lewis
Cats-Neale/Cameron

Out of that lot theres only one superstar IMO,Cameron.

A moment in Time. Big Picture Key Forwards still win premierships. Charlie Curnow is the difference between top 4 and grandfinals for Swans, GC. Like Carlton was an exception 79-82. All the other Premiers in that era had champion key forwards: Roach, Dunstall, Brereton, Salmon, Merret. Collingwood in 90 needed Daicos to kick 90 goals
2024- Daniner Hipwood
2023- Mihocek
2022- Hawkins, Cameron
2021- Ben Brown. Fritch
2020- Lynch Riewoldt
2019- Lynch Riewoldt
2018- Kennedy, Darling
2017- Riewoldt
2016- Boyd
2015- Roughead
2014- Roughead
2013- Franklin Roughead

 

[Moon]

I have no issue with people not rating certain players as it’s all subjective but when it comes to Motlop it’s the lack of alternatives people suggest that annoys me.

'Don't give me problems ... Give me a solution!'

Pointing out a problem is gifted free of charge ... if you also want me to solve it ... there are professionals being paid the big $bucks at Carlton to do that .. I'm not doing their job for free.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Do you think he goes missing or more the fact the team went missing for periods of the game and our forward entries were pathetic? I feel consistency will come with maturity.

Probably a bit of both; would've like to have seen him given opportunities around the ball a bit to get him into the game at times. Thought our kicking and running patterns inside 50 vastly improved in the last two games, hopefully that translates into next year.

 

[Sector 7G]

I think he just needs to slim a bit, he’s an absolute ball of muscle and I reckon it affects his take off speed.

Remove some of the muscle and do plenty of off the mark sprint training.

I think he’s got enough attributes to be a really good player

It is an interesting one. I think Sprint training is not going to slim him down as that tends to be power training. Needs to work on endurance which will slim him down so he isn't too gassed to run fast.

The change in head of fitness was to increase power training which comes at the expense of endurance. It did not seem to work in a positive way. Lets hope having more runners available and an extra year of the program will yield improvements.