Expansion 20th AFL team location

[Archer_11]

Possibly a merger witb Melbourne to form the Melbourne Lions.

Below was an article written by journalist Ashley Browne published in The Age speculating on how a Melbourne-Fitzroy merger in 1995, to be called the Melbourne Lions might have worked, when there was media speculation that the two clubs were talking. The merger of Melbourne and Fitzreoy came very close to happening.

The guernsey would have been Melbourne's existing jumper with a large gold Fitzroy Lion on the front. Same as the 1986 merger proposal.

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The team that was nominated by Ashley Browne for Round 1 1996 was:

Backs: Steven Febey (Melb) Simon Hawking (Fitz) Trent Cummings (Fitz)
Half-Backs: Glenn Lovett (Melb), David Nietz ( Melb), Jeff Farmer (Melb)
Centres: Stephen Tingay (Melb), Simon Atkins (Fitz), Matthew Febey (Melb)
Half-Forwards: Jason Baldwin (Fitz), David Schwarz (Melb), Chris Johnson (Fitz)
Forwards: Jarrod Molloy (Fitz), Garry Lyon (Melb) , Sean Charles (Melb)
Followers: Jim Stynes (Melb), Brad Boyd (Melb), Andy Lovell (Melb)
Interchange: John Barker (Fitz), Rowan Warfe (Fitz), Matthew Dent (Fitz), Todd Viney (Melb)

Finalists?

The actual article that was published in the Age was as follows

More than 60,000 fans bathed in the MCG sunshine yesterday as the AFL’s two newest clubs, the Melbourne Lions and the Port Adelaide Steelers, bounced the ball to start the 1996 season and the league's centenary celebrations.

Despite a sizeable contingent of Port Adelaide fans – every bit as rabid as their counterparts from Collingwood – all eyes were on the Lions and how the players from the old Melbourne and Fitzroy clubs would meld.

That question was answered during a withering nine goal third quarter burst that broke the game open. Melbourne was outstanding.

Neil Balme, the unanimous coach of the new club has put together an outstanding side. Skipper Gary Lyon booted nine goals for the Lions, while David Schwarz showed no ill-effects from last year’s two knee reconstructions, pulling in eight marks from centre-half forward and booting five goals of his own.

But it was the on-ball brigade of that was the most impressive feature of the new side. Vice captain Brad Boyd amassed 34 possessions while shutting Steeler captain Craig Bradley out of the contest.

Boyd was always the class performer of the old Fitzroy midfield, but yesterday he combined superbly with with Andy Lovell and Stephen Tingay to mesmerise the Steelers. Simon Atkins another of the former Lions, gave great drive from the centre after half time.

By contrast it was a miserable homecoming for Andrew Obst, the sole top ten player the Demons were forced to offload under the rules of the merger. Obst has found happiness with Port Adelaide the club from which he was recruited to Melbourne in 1990, but he was thrashed yesterday by Glenn Lovett.

There was much speculation that the side would be dominated by former Demons. But the Fitzroy contigent, particularly full back Simon Hawking who kept Scott Hodges to one goal and Chris Johnson who has already struck an uncanny understanding with Schwarz and Lyon.

Off the field it was a grand day for the Lions. Marketing manager John Birt reported a brisk sale of membership tickets and estimated that the sales were already approaching 15,000, which means the club will not need to under-write its membership sales, as it would have if the Lions had sold 12,720. (20% more than the 10,500 the Demons sold last year).

"The TV campaign the AFL helped finance has captured our supporters attention. They understand that a membership ticket represents good value, particularly when ours are $20 cheaper than any other club's" said Birt, who predicted that with 10 MCG home games still to come, the Lions membership could top 20,000. And Birt speaks from a position of strength, having handled Collingwood’s membership during the heady days following the 1990 premiership.

Club chairman Dyson Hore-Lacy was ecstatic after the match. “This is why we decided to resume those 1994 negotiations with Melbourne, rather than merge with Brisbane like some at the AFL would have preferred, “ he said.

“We’ve just won a huge game at our new home ground the MCG and the atmosphere was better than anything we experienced at the Western Oval and certainly better than watching it on TV from the Gabba.”

And with that he headed off to celebrate at 'Smithy’s', the new social club at the Junction Oval named after the late Norm Smith, who played for and coached both Melbourne and Fitzroy.

It was built for the Lions with a $700,000 handout from the AFL, which was to be used specifically for the creation of a social club."

-----------------------------

A possible Melbourne Lions List of 45 players, say if the clubs had merged at the start of 1996 and both individual clubs had already participated in the 1996 National Draft, might have read as follows.

Simon ATKINS, Jason BALDWIN, John BARKER, Brad BOYD, Nick CARTER, Brett CHANDLER, Sean CHARLES, Shane CLAYTON, Brett COOK, Trent CUMMINGS, Matthew DENT, Jeff FARMER, Matthew FEBEY, Steven FEBEY, Jeremy GUARD, Simon HAWKING, Jeff HILTON, Paul HOPGOOD, Chris JOHNSON, David KOWAL, Andy LOVELL, Brett LOVETT, Glenn LOVETT, Garry LYON, James MANSON, Anthony MELLINGTON, John McCARTHY, Jarrod MOLLOY, Danny MORTON, David NIETZ, Stephen PAXMAN, Martin PIKE, Matthew PRIMUS, Paul PRYMKE, Peter ROHDE, John ROMBOTIS, David SCHWARZ, Marcus SEECAMP, Shaun SMITH, Jim STYNES, Stephen TINGAY, Todd VINEY, Rowan WARFE, Graeme YEATS, and Mark ZANOTTI,

Via the draft from 1997 onwards ,the Melbourne Lions would have had access to Jonathon Brown and Jack Viney under the father-son rule.


After the above,possibly a VFL powerhouse called Fitzroy. Maybe the Melbourne Lions reserves could have been called the Fitzroy Demons in the VFL.

Thanks man, really appreciated.

Agree that probably would have worked better than most other arrangements. It's the convenience of it all that bugs me - a Melbourne based club shouldn't need an interstate one and vice versa. Very little in common.

 

[Roylion]

Agree that probably would have worked better than most other arrangements.

The late Ian Ridley said one of his biggest mistakes in negotiating the Melbourne-Hawks merger in 1996 is that Melbourne ignored a key price of advice in that members and supporters see the enduring symbols of their club, their colours, the tradition [things like history, club song etc.] and the club emblem and will reject a merger if there wasn't enough of that retained in the new entity. He was of course talking about Hawthorn.

However there would have been enough idenity of both Fitzroy and Melbourne to perhaps appease both sets of supporters

Melbourne retains the name, essentially their jumper (add a gold lion to their red and navy blue jumper) and their home ground
Fitzroy retains the lion emblem and close enough to the club colours in the new jumper of red, blue and gold

It's the convenience of it all that bugs me - a Melbourne based club shouldn't need an interstate one and vice versa. Very little in common.

There will never be a 'merger' of a Melbourne club and an non-Victorian club. Calls for the 'Gold Coast Kangaroos' for example are fanciful. Far more chance of a 20th club.

 

[Archer_11]

The late Ian Ridley said one of his biggest mistakes in negotiating the Melbourne-Hawks merger in 1996 is that Melbourne ignored a key price of advice in that members and supporters see the enduring symbols of their club, their colours, the tradition [things like history, club song etc.] and the club emblem and will reject a merger if there wasn't enough of that retained in the new entity. He was of course talking about Hawthorn.

However there would have been enough idenity of both Fitzroy and Melbourne to perhaps appease both sets of supporters

Melbourne retains the name, essentially their jumper (add a gold lion to their red and navy blue jumper) and their home ground
Fitzroy retains the lion emblem and close enough to the club colours in the new jumper of red, blue and gold




There will never be a 'merger' of a Melbourne club and an non-Victorian club. Calls for the 'Gold Coast Kangaroos' for example are fanciful. Far more chance of a 20th club.

Agree, why bother imo.

If they have to rationalise (& I hope that day never comes) it can't be just one team and also exactly what you said - you can't simply pick up a ~170 year old institution and make it something else, hoping that the passage of time normalises it.

 

[Papa G]

Getting rid of North is the answer. It has always been the answer. Unfortunately the gutless idiots in charge have never had the kahunas to go through with.

 

[peetoo]

The VFL, SANFL, WAFL has an abundance of talent

Not to mention the blokes who give up and just play local footy

I’m not saying the next Jeremy Cameron or Nick Daicos is there… but every year there are several state league players who transition onto senior lists and do well

In an 18 team comp there’s only 800 or so list spots available nationally in a country that will be at 30 mill population in several years time

Don’t agree with the claims that the talent pool can’t sustain a 19-20 team national comp

And since expansion draft numbers each year have not gone up, even down some years. Suggests players are staying on lists longer

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The draft and salary caps already serve to prevent West Coast from getting too powerful.

West Coast has won like, what 4 matches in the last 18 months?

I mean off the field, not on it.

 

[boncer34]

Getting rid of North is the answer. It has always been the answer. Unfortunately the gutless idiots in charge have never had the kahunas to go through with.

What's Norwoods support like?

 

[peetoo]

The late Ian Ridley said one of his biggest mistakes in negotiating the Melbourne-Hawks merger in 1996 is that Melbourne ignored a key price of advice in that members and supporters see the enduring symbols of their club, their colours, the tradition [things like history, club song etc.] and the club emblem and will reject a merger if there wasn't enough of that retained in the new entity. He was of course talking about Hawthorn.

However there would have been enough idenity of both Fitzroy and Melbourne to perhaps appease both sets of supporters

Melbourne retains the name, essentially their jumper (add a gold lion to their red and navy blue jumper) and their home ground
Fitzroy retains the lion emblem and close enough to the club colours in the new jumper of red, blue and gold




There will never be a 'merger' of a Melbourne club and an non-Victorian club. Calls for the 'Gold Coast Kangaroos' for example are fanciful. Far more chance of a 20th club.

Ironically the basis of this thread is there needs to be an even number of teams so they all play each week

Even around 2010 they suggested two new team to keep even

In 96 brisbane lions was almost certain and the AFL wanted port Adelaide to come in. 16 teams. A successful Melbourne hawks merger would have taken the number to 14 plus port
So either hold off on port or run with 15 teams again

 

[Papa G]

What's Norwoods support like?

Not what it was. The Crows have been in The comp for 32 years. That's close to 2 generations that have grown up with dimishing or zero SANFL support. The majority of of old school Norwood supporters jumped on the Crows. A 3rd SA team would be an absolute failure. I think another WA team would be as well.

 

[whiskeytown]

Country’s at near 26mill and with Fed governments loving population growth… Australia will be at 30mill… then 35mill, etc

Going forward population won’t be a problem

The VFL, SANFL, WAFL has an abundance of talent

Not to mention the blokes who give up and just play local footy

I’m not saying the next Jeremy Cameron or Nick Daicos is there… but every year there are several state league players who transition onto senior lists and do well

In an 18 team comp there’s only 800 or so list spots available nationally in a country that will be at 30 mill population in several years time

Don’t agree with the claims that the talent pool can’t sustain a 19-20 team national comp

FoxSports just paraphrased my two posts from earlier today

Fallen giant’s brutal reality as rock bottom hits; snubbed star to trigger trade frenzy: Talking Pts

‘Logical’ destination for 20th AFL team revealed; fallen giant hits rock bottom: Talking Pts

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[The Plowking]

Just merge North and the Suns already!

 

[jc37]

If there is a 20th team only places I can see it being are NT or Canberra.

A left field option that would be a logistical nightmare and probably make it unfeasable would be London.
NFL has been a raging success regular 70,000 sell outs over last 10-15 years.
For most of season not competing with its 9 football teams and 3 professional rugby teams-
Financially would be profitable pretty quickly.
Actually has a talent base on its doorstep in Ireland, I think there is more with rugby in UK.
Crystal Palace Athletics Stadium is ripe to be rebuilt and shared with Athletics UK.
Lots of Uk expats in Aust all over would give an away following.
200,000 Aussies living in UK.

 

[Roylion]

So either hold off on port or run with 15 teams again

There were going to be 17 teams in 1997 if there were no exits from the competition.

 

[Freomaniac]

I'd probably fold one of the failed expansion teams to keep it at 18, rather than add a 20th. Whoever's performing the worst out of GC, GWS or Freo.

You wish Freo would fold wouldn't you? LoL

 

[Freomaniac]

Canberra for me. Tell the Giants to **** off and do what they should have been doing from the beginning - ie concentrating 100% on the area they are supposed to be representing.

After what Tassie has been put through, I assume the AFL will tell Canberra to construct a brand new, purpose built stadium though.

Yeah Tassie had to fight long and hard for their spot in the AFL.

I still think the grounds of Launceston and Hobart is fine.

But Tassie in the AFL will give the Tassie state league the shot in the arm it needs.

Canberra just needs Manuka oval to hold 30-35,000 seats

 

[Freomaniac]

The draft and salary caps already serve to prevent West Coast from getting too powerful.

West Coast has won like, what 4 matches in the last 18 months?

In the early 1990s, the draft and salary cap was there to prevent west coast and crows from being too strong.

Even before the crows won the flag in 1997, the crows always averaged 35-40,000 people at footy park from 1991-96. Yet smaller Vic clubs like Fitzroy would struggle to get 15-20,000 at home games

 

[PrinceCharles]

You wish Freo would fold wouldn't you? LoL

I just don't even really notice them, so it wouldn't make much of a difference I would have thought. Although it is nice having Sunday twilight games as an option to watch, not that I ever do.

 

[My Tilly]

Getting rid of North is the answer. It has always been the answer. Unfortunately the gutless idiots in charge have never had the kahunas to go through with.

I was not around in the 70's when they were a strong club but I saw them in the 90's and there was nothing better than Friday night footy featuring the Kangaroos.
As much as they hate to hear it, the whole Wayne Carey fiasco sent them back many years. Club was literally turned upside in the space of 24 hours.
They recovered and made it back to finals not too long after but the club was never the same again.
Sliding doors, had Carey played on until his mid 30's, he probably would have done some kind of mentoring role within the club and helped lead the club through it's next transition.

Right now it doesn't feel like a positive vibe but they aren't that far away. They have some exciting young talent coming through and there is no doubt they can become a force of the competition again.
They need another year and I think we finally see the Clarkson era take off as was anticipated when he signed on as coach.

 

[peetoo]

Carey was cooked soon after too

 

[My Tilly]

Carey was cooked soon after too

Circumstantial as well.
Missed a year of football when he looked in tip top shape during the 2002 preseason. Mental fatigue went along with it too. Just a nasty turn of events for all parties involved.

 

[Roylion]

Getting rid of North is the answer. It has always been the answer. Unfortunately the gutless idiots in charge have never had the kahunas to go through with.

That’s because the AFL had no power to force North to relocate or merge anywhere the shareholders and directors didn’t agree to.

This has been explained to you many times and yet you keep repeating the same old tripe.

 

[sherb]

Getting rid of North is the answer. It has always been the answer. Unfortunately the gutless idiots in charge have never had the kahunas to go through with.

It's easy to propose axing a club when it's not the one you follow.

 

[Daka]

Darwin easily, Perth does not need another team either does SA.

 

[Freomaniac]

I just don't even really notice them, so it wouldn't make much of a difference I would have thought. Although it is nice having Sunday twilight games as an option to watch, not that I ever do.

I didn't give a stuff when your team had 7 or 8 Friday night games in one season and finished bottom 6. LoL

That was 2014 or 2015 wasn't it?

Point is, dockers will be around for many years and decades and centuries yet.

 

[Freomaniac]

Darwin easily, Perth does not need another team either does SA.

Why not give Alice Springs the AFL license too lol