20th AFL Team

[Cubs2Lions]

Sounds awful but I'm really hoping the feds say yeah nah to any funding of NT/Northern Australia and kill the bid. Given the AFL's lack of interest in WA3 they'd then have to go with Canberra if they want a 20th team, or no team at all.

Or give Norwood the 20th license in a Bradbury-esque moment, which would be something to behold.

 

[||-GOB-||]

The 20th team is a question in the latest fans' survey.
View attachment 2022586

It seems worth pointing out that Aussie Rules is ‘expanding’ into smaller and smaller markets which will forever rely on handouts. Unlike RL there’s no new demographic to help fill these teams so the quality of the games will continue to fall.

Compare that to the NRL’s options (WA/NZ2/QLD5/PNG/SA/VIC2) which all add something to the comp.

It feels like the afl admin are running headfirst into a wall without a backup plan.

 

[Kappa]

It seems worth pointing out that Aussie Rules is ‘expanding’ into smaller and smaller markets which will forever rely on handouts. Unlike RL there’s no new demographic to help fill these teams so the quality of the games will continue to fall.

Compare that to the NRL’s options (WA/NZ2/QLD5/PNG/SA/VIC2) which all add something to the comp.

It feels like the afl admin are running headfirst into a wall without a backup plan.

No new demographic? You mean like the entire states of QLD and NSW which are producing more elite talents every single year?

Oh and also Tasmania will get back to regularly producing AFL stars again when they have their own team.

Very dumb post

 

[Canberra Pear]

It seems worth pointing out that Aussie Rules is ‘expanding’ into smaller and smaller markets which will forever rely on handouts. Unlike RL there’s no new demographic to help fill these teams so the quality of the games will continue to fall.

Compare that to the NRL’s options (WA/NZ2/QLD5/PNG/SA/VIC2) which all add something to the comp.

It feels like the afl admin are running headfirst into a wall without a backup plan.

It's not a pissing contest, but a lot of these are just the NRL playing catch up.

Crazy that they don't have teams already in WA and SA.

As for the others, Qld5(Bris3) is pretty equivalent to WA3, while Vic2 is just a 20-years-later GWS.

And NZ has no big city left. Canberra's bigger than either Christchurch or Wellington.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It's not a pissing contest, but a lot of these are just the NRL playing catch up.

Crazy that they don't have teams already in WA and SA.

As for the others, Qld5(Bris3) is pretty equivalent to WA3, while Vic2 is just a 20-years-later GWS.

And NZ has no big city left. Canberra's bigger than either Christchurch or Wellington.

Crying out for NRL expanding into bigger markets while claiming PNG is a big market isn't it.

Even if you ignore the size of the economy itself, the urban area of Port Moresby is only about 750,000 people. It's not a big city.

 

[Bjo187]

No new demographic? You mean like the entire states of QLD and NSW which are producing more elite talents every single year?

Oh and also Tasmania will get back to regularly producing AFL stars again when they have their own team.

Very dumb post

The other point here is, the nrl have shown previously expansion into non traditional areas is pointless in the 'producing new talent' sense.

What's the storm produced like 1 Victorian player in 30 years? The gold coast suns area just produced 4 top 25 picks in one year and nsw and qld could field state teams, a nsw state team probably being just behind w.a at the moment on talent.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I guess we now know what the possible candidates for Team 20 will be (assuming of course there is to be a team 20). No New Zealand, Newcastle, Sunshine Coast, Brisbane or Sydney 3. Would have liked a question to get fans views on mergers/ relocation but I guess that’s not on the agenda.

If we think that GWS is a financial blackhole for game it will be dwarfed by a team from the NT.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Andrew Dillon was on BT's podcast, and they discussed the 20th team on there: (from about 50:30).

BT was pushing hard for the NT, but Dillon was non-committal. BT tried to push that location doesn't matter as much any more because sponsors are national these days.

Dillon: But there's quite a small population in Darwin, it's how you can make it work from an economics point of view. 120-140k people living in Darwin playing 11 home games, can that work? I'd love to see it, one day.

He paused a bit before "one day". He's definitely not wanting to commit to the NT yet.

Dillon rattled off the same list as the poll, he said of Canberra:

Dillon: Canberra, the Giants are doing incredible things down there, they're selling out every game, albeit in a small stadium, but it's got a big population and a growing AFL interest.

That was pretty positive of Canberra I thought. He mentioned the Giants, but I didn't read it as tying us to the Giants. That's twice I've heard Dillon mention Canberra. Previously Gil always said we were Giants territory, but Dillon hasn't automatically lumped us in.

That's also the first time I've heard our large population has actually been recognised (we're often framed as too small, despite being so much bigger than Darwin).

 

[Bjo187]

Andrew Dillon was on BT's podcast, and they discussed the 20th team on there: (from about 50:30).

BT was pushing hard for the NT, but Dillon was non-committal. BT tried to push that location doesn't matter as much any more because sponsors are national these days.



He paused a bit before "one day". He's definitely not wanting to commit to the NT yet.

Dillon rattled off the same list as the poll, he said of Canberra:



That was pretty positive of Canberra I thought. He mentioned the Giants, but I didn't read it as tying us to the Giants. That's twice I've heard Dillon mention Canberra. Previously Gil always said we were Giants territory, but Dillon hasn't automatically lumped us in.

That's also the first time I've heard our large population has actually been recognised (we're often framed as too small, despite being so much bigger than Darwin).

Do you have minute markers when this is discussed mate? I'm keen to hear his tone, but what you wrote sounds positive, I'm glad he is aware of Darwin's tiny population.

Edit: actually I see 50 min, thanks.

 

[Kappa]

How can people seriously suggest the NT for an AFL team? good lord.

 

[brutus76]

If you had a 3rd WA team for North Perth per se and they played 4 games in Darwin a year people people will jump on board

 

[Coolangatta]

Andrew Dillon was on BT's podcast, and they discussed the 20th team on there: (from about 50:30).

BT was pushing hard for the NT, but Dillon was non-committal. BT tried to push that location doesn't matter as much any more because sponsors are national these days.



He paused a bit before "one day". He's definitely not wanting to commit to the NT yet.

Dillon rattled off the same list as the poll, he said of Canberra:



That was pretty positive of Canberra I thought. He mentioned the Giants, but I didn't read it as tying us to the Giants. That's twice I've heard Dillon mention Canberra. Previously Gil always said we were Giants territory, but Dillon hasn't automatically lumped us in.

That's also the first time I've heard our large population has actually been recognised (we're often framed as too small, despite being so much bigger than Darwin).

Does Dillon read BF by any chance?

Sounds like one of us.

And that was positive and dare I say it… there’s a chance one day there’ll be more than 20 teams.

Canberra should be 20 and Darwin and Cairns can be filed away under the “you never know one day” cabinet.

I know some people here are like “Nah **** those places” for reasons I understand but you don’t give places with actual interest and participation in footy the middle finger. You at least consider them.

Expansion is great for the game… and that is not what WA3 offers.

WA3 is great if you want an even number of teams and don’t have anywhere else you can go but we know there is a place they can go.

Canberra. Get that Manuka upgrade going while Dillon is CEO. If he sees regular 20k attendances there, well…

 

[Pivot Piece]

If you had a 3rd WA team for North Perth per se and they played 4 games in Darwin a year people people will jump on board

No more than they would any other out of town club mate. A WA team is going to travelling enough as it is without selling 4 of its "home" games to a city 4 hours away by plane

 

[Coolangatta]

No more than they would any other out of town club mate. A WA team is going to travelling enough as it is without selling 4 of its "home" games to a city 4 hours away by plane

Yeah, if you're going to have a new club that plays more games in Darwin, it might as well be another Melbourne club: the Fitzroy Northern Bears.

7 home games in Melbourne, 4 in Darwin, 5 away games in Melbourne for a total of 12 Melbourne games per year.

At least the travel factor wouldn't be as bad as a WA team travelling 14+ times per year, and longer trips.

But... Canberra I think is the way to go.

 

[Run n Spread]

For all the talk you can't have a team in Darwin as it's too hot Canberra is too cold. Couldn't play night games there in winter.

 

[Run n Spread]

By that logic, we should put the 20th team in Melbourne so they can get big home crowds against Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon.

Not such a stupid idea. Not Melbourne but Albury/Wodonga could work. The Murray River Rovers.
Footy huge there and Victoria is the key driver of the unprecedented wealth flooding footy coffers atm.
TV viewers crowds etc are driven out of Melbourne

 

[Run n Spread]

How can people seriously suggest the NT for an AFL team? good lord.

How can anyone suggest a game with an oval ball a picture phone a digital wallet or an airplane.
Because it's original fresh dynamic a growing region in the next 100 years and central to Australian identity as is AFL.
If you're going to carry GWS where no one gives a shit the NT is a no brainer.
The last frontier

 

[Canberra Pear]

For all the talk you can't have a team in Darwin as it's too hot Canberra is too cold. Couldn't play night games there in winter.

So play day games. The 1:30pm game isn't an overly coveted timeslot.

Canberra winters are cold, but the days are usually beautifully sunny.

Whereas Darwin's weather is oppressive no matter what time of day you play.

 

[Canberra Pear]

How can anyone suggest a game with an oval ball a picture phone a digital wallet or an airplane.
Because it's original fresh dynamic a growing region in the next 100 years and central to Australian identity as is AFL.
If you're going to carry GWS where no one gives a shit the NT is a no brainer.
The last frontier

Darwin is tiny. That's the point. And it's growing the second slowest of all states and territories.

As is stands, it can't sustain a team. If those factors change, then it becomes a viable option. But not for Team 20.

But in the meantime, an NT team would still average lower crowds than GWS gets, with no population to grow into. Their ceiling would be similar to GWS' floor.

 

[Run n Spread]

I thought the questions were better than usual.

I think the quarters are slightly too long, 18 mins would be perfect, the floating fixture works so you don't have crap games on prime time late in the season. The sub I'm not too phased by either way, the video review can be annoying, but I prefer it than incorrect decisions.

Mid season trade yes but with a lot of restrictions, I'd personally prefer a twilight grand final, it's better for engaging the casual viewer than the dead time of 2pm Saturday.

Anyway they were my thoughts on some of the questions, but I tend to sit on the side of what's best for the growth of the game nationally, most people tend to care about their own club and tradition and that's about the end of it, so I'm sure I sit in the minority .

I went
20 mins is fine
Floating yes
No sub. 4 on bench
Tech yes not perfect but less errors
No to mid year trades
GF twilight
NT team 20

 

[Kappa]

How can anyone suggest a game with an oval ball a picture phone a digital wallet or an airplane.
Because it's original fresh dynamic a growing region in the next 100 years and central to Australian identity as is AFL.
If you're going to carry GWS where no one gives a shit the NT is a no brainer.
The last frontier

It's not a growing region. It's growing much much slower than all other parts of Australia meaning it will get smaller over time.

It's a tiny tiny market with low incomes, playing in horrible conditions, in an area 99% of players will absolutely hate to live, and won't generate any extra fans... it's a horrible idea in all areas apart from "the feel"

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It's not a growing region. It's growing much much slower than all other parts of Australia meaning it will get smaller over time.

It's a tiny tiny market with low incomes, playing in horrible conditions, in an area 99% of players will absolutely hate to live, and won't generate any extra fans... it's a horrible idea in all areas apart from "the feel"

Even if there was a stadium for them to play in... it would still be a bad idea, but the fact that someone, somewhere, has to fund the stadium, just makes it doubly bad.

There can be some debate about the appropriateness of Manuka but it everyone can agree it is at least most of the way there, at least in the short term, to place a tema.

 

[Coolangatta]

Even if there was a stadium for them to play in... it would still be a bad idea, but the fact that someone, somewhere, has to fund the stadium, just makes it doubly bad.

There can be some debate about the appropriateness of Manuka but it everyone can agree it is at least most of the way there, at least in the short term, to place a tema.

Before BT cut off Dillon he was about to say a Cairns based team could be possible within 10-15 years. Cairns isn’t going to get to 500k people then so I think people here are overestimating the required population a little.

Still, it’s not irrelevant, and if he thinks that of Cairns, then Canberra is ready NOW. No more excuses about them not having enough people or being mixed code. So is Gold Coast and they got a team.

But I wouldn’t be as dismissive of NT or NQ getting a team as some of you here. I’m sure Dillon and the people looking into it know all the barriers as well as any of us do. It hasn’t stopped them from putting a red line through it though.

But as Dillon said, you want a club that will have supporters who will travel around the country to watch their team play.

So I think the smart short term play is Canberra as team 20 and both Darwin and Cairns based teams can be something future CEOs might look at. Give their populations time to grow some more.

Unless the AFL says there’ll never be an NT team, their interest in a licence isn’t going to die off if they aren’t team 20.

 

[Freomaniac]

NO. Give Canberra its own team and let GWS play all their games in Sydney.

I can live with that.

Again... There is 450,000 people live in the ACT. There is already a ground in Manuka oval to play footy there too. Just need the money to turn that into a 20-25,000 seat arena

 

[Canberra Pear]

I can live with that.

Again... There is 450,000 people live in the ACT. There is already a ground in Manuka oval to play footy there too. Just need the money to turn that into a 20-25,000 seat arena

It was already posted in the Canberra thread, but this article came out a week ago.

The ACT Government is funding a study into an upgrade. Basically what earlier plans have said, to upgrade the eastern side to bring it up to 20k for AFL and 18k for cricket.

Forget a new rectangular stadium. Manuka Oval might be the first major sporting venue in Canberra to get a significant facelift after the ACT government committed to design work for a new eastern grandstand.

In news that will boost Cricket ACT chairman bid for a men's Big Bash team, it can be revealed the government will fund a study as part of the budget later this month.

The exact financial commitment is unclear because it's tied up in other infrastructure elements, but the idea is to do all the work so Manuka's plans become a "ready to build" project for federal government investment.

Building facilities on the eastern side of the ground is considered the last part of a three-phase plan to increase capacity, improve spectator amenities and attract more content to the historic venue, which will celebrate its centenary in 2029.

It's a massive boost for Boorer's hopes of winning a Big Bash licence, and having the backing of Chief Minister Andrew Barr will push Manuka's redevelopment and cricket's grand plans closer to reality.

"As Manuka Oval celebrates its centenary, significant improvements to access, safety and the spectator experience will ensure the oval continues to be one of the best boutique venues for cricket and AFL in the country," Barr said.

"The ACT government is continuing to plan for the next progressive improvements to further improve Manuka Oval, ensuring that the ACT can continue to attract elite sporting content.

"Funding will be provided in the 2024-25 budget to continue technical due diligence and design for a new eastern grandstand at Manuka Oval. A new grandstand will improve the experience of attendees.

"This work will include consulting with Manuka's resident sporting codes and also residents in the surrounding areas."

The venue capacity for Australian football matches will increase from about 14,000 to 20,000, and cricket will jump from about 11,000 to 18,000 when the construction is complete.

The eastern upgrade was the final step, and was expected to cost at least $24 million.

The challenge for the government will be trying to keep some of the old-school charm that makes Manuka Oval so great. Sitting on the hill to watch cricket or the GWS Giants - particularly in the warmer months of the AFL season - is a treat for sporting fans.

Barr has already flagged his intention to seek a 50-50 funding partnership with the federal government. The eastern stand was mentioned in both the ACT government and Cricket ACT's submission to a federal government inquiry into better promoting the capital last year.

"Developments could include the redevelopment of the eastern grandstand to enable more fans to watch cricket (and AFL), upgraded spectator amenities, greater parking provisions, enhanced training and preparation facilities and the transition to a more eco-friendly, environmentally sustainable venue."