20th AFL Team

[Badger17]

How would you know the level of Lions bandwagon support being based in Canberra? Have you been to the Gabba since 2019?

Mate, sports teams experiencing significant jumps in support when they are successful is a phenomena that's extremely well documented. A person from anywhere on the planet could show you that, and frankly, you're well aware of it in your heart of hearts.

What the Lions are experiencing is only sustainable for as long as they continue to succeed on the pitch. As soon as that success goes the publicity and interest will go with it. Once that happens the support will start to drop. Who knows how much and how far, but it could potentially be extremely quickly depending on how far they drop down the ladder, how quickly, and for how long.

But even setting that aside, the Lion's current popularity isn't evidence that there's demand for a second side in Brisbane in and of itself. It's only evidence that there's currently high demand for Lions products, and there's only been a significant jump in demand for Lions products in the short term because the team is going well.

 

[Macca180]

1. Just because Brisbane have sold out their 36k ground does not mean that they will sell 20k lore tickets once they are in a 63k ground. There could be 59k fans, or just 36,001. We actually don’t know.
2. The Lions haven’t sold out their 36k ground. There are plenty of tickets left for the opening round game v Dogs. These have been on sale for months.

Maybe but just going to a state of the art new stadium like Adelaide Oval, Optus Stadium or the MCG as opposed to a shithole like the Gabba will be a massive draw card for a ton of people.

The experience alone is on another level.

This can not come quick enough. Especially while the Lions are playing good footy.

Think Footy Park to Adelaide Oval. That's the best analogy I can come up with .

 

[Seedsfan]

Maybe but just going to a state of the art new stadium like Adelaide Oval, Optus Stadium or the MCG as opposed to a shithole like the Gabba will be a massive draw card for a ton of people.

The experience alone is on another level.

This can not come quick enough. Especially while the Lions are playing good footy.

Think Footy Park to Adelaide Oval. That's the best analogy I can come up with .

Yet the Bronco’s, Reds and Roar all fill stadiums when they are winning and see a drop off when they are not.

 

[Macca180]

Yet the Bronco’s, Reds and Roar all fill stadiums when they are winning and see a drop off when they are not.

yeah reds, roar no idea about them or their stadiums.

just saying when you have a great stadium it helps a bit with attendances.

Look at port at footy park when they dropped off, tarps out. Shit stadium shit location.

Adelaide Oval when they aren't winning it's not as bad. Good stadium, good facilities, location, infrastructure it all helps.

When Lions start going bad sure numbers will fall that's normal but it worse when you are going to a dump to watch them lose.

 

[Seedsfan]

yeah reds, roar no idea about them or their stadiums.

just saying when you have a great stadium it helps a bit with attendances.

Look at port at footy park when they dropped off, tarps out. Shit stadium shit location.

Adelaide Oval when they aren't winning it's not as bad. Good stadium, good facilities, location, infrastructure it all helps.

When Lions start going bad sure numbers will fall that's normal but it worse when you are going to a dump to watch them lose.

That was Port as they wanted to move out of the ground.

While you may be able to fill a 60k seat stadium now there will be an inevitable drop off. It may not be as stark as what others have experienced yet every team in every comp suffers this fate

 

[Macca180]

That was Port as they wanted to move out of the ground.

While you may be able to fill a 60k seat stadium now there will be an inevitable drop off. It may not be as stark as what others have experienced yet every team in every comp suffers this fate

yeah yeah whatever. of course they wanted to get out of there . lts a shithole and that's my point .it would be same with crows as well . they are still gona get bigger numbers at Adelaide Oval than footy park when playing like shit because its a better experience due to the stadium, location and experience

AO or west lakes **** me.
All I'm saying is this... a better stadium always helps. I'm not saying lions are gona fill it ffs or when we drop off crowds won't be shit. of course
Im just saying if a team is going shit and the stadium is shit its just gona be worse. that's all. because its just another reason not to go.

it just helps ffs. the gabba is a shithole. **** that place. Go to the MCG, Optus or AO then go the Gabba and see how shit we have it compared with the other cities.

who the **** wants to travel to footy park, Waverley , the Gabba , Subiaco when your team is shit.

if they are shit and I'm getting a tram or train to the city or to the gate at AO, MCG, Optus Im way more inclined to go even for the outing.

That's all man, that's all. And footy park proves it. again I'm not saying we aren't gona have shit crowds when we suck. Just saying a really good stadium makes it less worse.

Playing shit footy combined with the Gabba-**** that.

 

[RedV3x]

Maybe but just going to a state of the art new stadium like Adelaide Oval, Optus Stadium or the MCG as opposed to a shithole like the Gabba will be a massive draw card for a ton of people.

I always thought that this sentiment was highly over-rated but it seems to be true in the case of Australian Football. Perth Stadium was always going to attract more people than Subiaco. Perth Stadium has the veiwing, the many concession stands, the ease of movement around the stadium and people have gotten used to using public transport and how much easier that is but there is another factor as well. There is something "special" about going to the Perth Stadium, some added attraction.That is why events that struggle to pull huge crowds do better at Perth Stadium. The WAFL GF, cricket matches and non AFL sports do well.

Adelaide oval has proved to be quite a magnet over Football Park because it is centrally located and simply more civilised.

A comparison between the MCG and Docklands for a middle to low order game is interesting. Which works better?
The proportions of the walkways and the concessions are much better at the MCG.
Docklands has better viewing w.r.t. smaller crowds and is convenient to get to.
The big difference is the MCG is in the open air. It feels like a sporting arena.
Docklands always has the feel of enclosed concrete and shadows on the ground.

From the feedback so far Brisbane Olympic stadium will be similar to Perth Stadium and if that holds true
I can see a huge increase in AFL attendances in Brisbane.

 

[Walshawk]

On field performance has more impact on crowds than the stadium. Yes, Port have averaged 34k at AO the past 5 years, but they also averaged over 31k in their first nine seasons at FP. So there is an uplift, but when you consider population growth, only back to where they were previously.

The Lions have averaged 29k over the last three years in a 35k stadium. Their best average was just under 33,619 in 2004 when it held around 40k, and the Gabba had just been refurbished. So to think that they are going to gain 50% and average mid 40Ks is highly unlikely. They might in a strong season, as games v big Vic clubs might go into the 50Ks, but in down year it will go back under 30k, even in a brand new stadium.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Maybe but just going to a state of the art new stadium like Adelaide Oval, Optus Stadium or the MCG as opposed to a shithole like the Gabba will be a massive draw card for a ton of people.

The experience alone is on another level.

This can not come quick enough. Especially while the Lions are playing good footy.

Think Footy Park to Adelaide Oval. That's the best analogy I can come up with .

I do wonder sometimes if the people commenting here have been to a Gabba match in the post-Covid era, while also having been to games at Adelaide, Perth etc.

I've been to multiple matches in every city in Australia (yes really) and the Gabba is truly the worst fan experience of any AFL stadium. Ballarat is better.

People are acting like Brisbane's bandwagon support is not impressive when in my eyes it truly is, because it occurs despite the stadium. Yes Brisbane have been successful but it's also a product of constant generational southern state migration, that also had an uptick around COVID (many people have never returned).

 

[Canberra Pear]

I don't speak for everybody, but I think the general consensus is that the new stadium will be great for the Lions and AFL in general in Queensland.

As somebody who lived in Adelaide around the transition to Adelaide Oval, my attendance definitely picked up with the shift. A new modern stadium along better transport routes in the afterglow of the Olympics will be a clear boost for Brisbane.

But what I'm questioning is if the boost is enough to sustain three times as many people attending the footy every fortnight.

 

[Cmarsh]

I don't speak for everybody, but I think the general consensus is that the new stadium will be great for the Lions and AFL in general in Queensland.

As somebody who lived in Adelaide around the transition to Adelaide Oval, my attendance definitely picked up with the shift. A new modern stadium along better transport routes in the afterglow of the Olympics will be a clear boost for Brisbane.

But what I'm questioning is if the boost is enough to sustain three times as many people attending the footy every fortnight.

Why does it need to be three times as many people attending?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Why does it need to be three times as many people attending?

Because it's convenient for his pro-Canberra, anti-Brisbane argument that:

• We will ignore that people are currently locked out of Brisbane games
• We will ignore that more people will go buying tickets at a cheaper price point ($30 GA tickets at the Olympic Stadium vs $80 current Gabba tickets to maybe get into the worst seat)
• We will ignore ongoing trends of southern state, AFL-leaning migration to SEQ, and that SEQ is demographically far more of an AFL heartland than it was 20 years ago with migration patterns and people that moved in the 90s and 2000s having kids.
• We will ignore the appeal/afterglow of the Olympics itself - people that attended Olympic events and the buzz of the Olympics, as in Sydney 2000, will make other Brisbane events in the year after an appealing event/local thing to do.
• We will assume that a Brisbane 2 team will play 11 home games at the new stadium and not be open to the idea that they play games elsewhere (wherever that may be).

It's far easier to act in this way and pretend how reality might play out re a Brisbane 2 team and be reductive to the point of being pointless to say "Gabba 11x38,000, Vic Stadium 22x60, 3 times as many".

 

[Canberra Pear]

Because it's convenient for his pro-Canberra, anti-Brisbane argument that:

I'm not anti-Brisbane. I'm anti-moving too quickly for a second team in Brisbane.

I'm obviously pro-Canberra, but I've still said other places will be viable or realistic. Brisbane just isn't on that list in that timeframe.

 

[Macca180]

On field performance has more impact on crowds than the stadium.

No shit. Obviously. No one is denying that. But a great stadium with good infrastructure that provides a good match day experience also helps.... Adelaide, Perth and Melbourne all back that up.

Gabba is run down, old and shit.
Brisbane needs a state of the art stadium like the other states. It's not 1980.

The sooner that place gets ****ed off the better.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

What makes it so bad? A stadium is a stadium

A million things. Narrow walkways, bad sightlines for the games, inaccessible in terms of traffic and public transport,, bad food/drink options, unpleasant to look at (crumbling concrete/stained/rusted metal etc), small video scoreboard, bad disability accessibility (technically not actually legal right now), lack of lift facilities, uninspiring architectural/design beauty, limited corporate facilities (if that's your tipple), seats exposed in the sun, lack of airflow which makes it sweaty and humid to sit in, bad electronics/operations (lights have failed in both an AFL and BBL game recently), bad speaker/PA system, lack of bar facilities, lack of open space facilities to catch up with friends while in the stadium before/after games, limited merchandising stores/outlets, limited ancillary facilities in the stadium that you don't think about but matter to some people (autism rooms, parent/child room, multi-faith prayer rooms etc), ongoing safety risk given all of the above

Etc.

Not to mention the raw point that it is just harder (and more expensive) to get a ticket, given limited capacity - maybe it wouldn't be so bad if more people had the opportunity to pay less money for the same benefit people around the country get (be able to watch a team they support win a game of AFL), but they don't get that benefit - you get a reduced sense of community if fewer fellow fans share in a match dya experience.

Should I continue?

 

[Purple Suit]

Because it's convenient for his pro-Canberra, anti-Brisbane argument that:

• We will ignore that people are currently locked out of Brisbane games
• We will ignore that more people will go buying tickets at a cheaper price point ($30 GA tickets at the Olympic Stadium vs $80 current Gabba tickets to maybe get into the worst seat)
• We will ignore ongoing trends of southern state, AFL-leaning migration to SEQ, and that SEQ is demographically far more of an AFL heartland than it was 20 years ago with migration patterns and people that moved in the 90s and 2000s having kids.
• We will ignore the appeal/afterglow of the Olympics itself - people that attended Olympic events and the buzz of the Olympics, as in Sydney 2000, will make other Brisbane events in the year after an appealing event/local thing to do.
• We will assume that a Brisbane 2 team will play 11 home games at the new stadium and not be open to the idea that they play games elsewhere (wherever that may be).

It's far easier to act in this way and pretend how reality might play out re a Brisbane 2 team and be reductive to the point of being pointless to say "Gabba 11x38,000, Vic Stadium 22x60, 3 times as many".

It's exagrated but if you had a 2nd Brisbane team and a new stadium they get nearly 400% more capacity. So you need to sell three times the current attendance to utilize it.

Brisbane is too early, wait for the Stadium to come which might be when the lions drop off slightly and interest can be gauged then.

Meanwhile Perth will be chockers (at least with sold tickets) every game.

 

[Canberra Pear]

It's exagrated but if you had a 2nd Brisbane team and a new stadium they get nearly 400% more capacity. So you need to sell three times the current attendance to utilize it.

Brisbane is too early, wait for the Stadium to come which might be when the lions drop off slightly and interest can be gauged then.

Meanwhile Perth will be chockers (at least with sold tickets) every game.

Spot on until the last point.

Chockers is a stretch for WA3, but it would still be have healthier crowds than Bris2.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It's exagrated but if you had a 2nd Brisbane team and a new stadium they get nearly 400% more capacity. So you need to sell three times the current attendance to utilize it.

Brisbane is too early, wait for the Stadium to come which might be when the lions drop off slightly and interest can be gauged then.

Meanwhile Perth will be chockers (at least with sold tickets) every game.

I'm actually on the record for saying that the AFL should dream big and maintain its revenue base (given the decline of TV revenue) by adding new teams and new opportunity for corporate sales by having 22 teams with Canberra, Brisbane 2/SC and Perth 3/SW WA as teams.

I'm big on both Perth 3 and Brisbane 2 for the same reason - AFL needs to move away from TV money as the base of its revenue (which will happen anyway) and reaffirm having opportunities for games in stadiums that people will want to go to.

 

[Purple Suit]

Spot on until the last point.

Chockers is a stretch for WA3, but it would still be have healthier crowds than Bris2.

I'm talking about our existing 2 teams in WA. Olympics is 6 years away and by then Freo will have a waiting list and WC will still have a waiting list if WA3 doesn't happen.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'm talking about our existing 2 teams in WA. Olympics is 6 years away and by then Freo will have a waiting list and WC will still have a waiting list if WA3 doesn't happen.

Ahh my bad, we were discussing a second Brisbane team, I assumed you were referencing an expansion team in Perth, too.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'm actually on the record for saying that the AFL should dream big and maintain its revenue base (given the decline of TV revenue) by adding new teams and new opportunity for corporate sales by having 22 teams with Canberra, Brisbane 2/SC and Perth 3/SW WA as teams.

I'm big on both Perth 3 and Brisbane 2 for the same reason - AFL needs to move away from TV money as the base of its revenue (which will happen anyway) and reaffirm having opportunities for games in stadiums that people will want to go to.

And if the end goal is Canberra, WA3 and SEQ3 to round out the competition, it makes sense to add Canberra first.

You theoretically wouldn't expand to the 21/22 round until east least 2050/2060. In the years leading up to that, West Coast, Freo and the Lions all get stronger. Demand grows. That overflows into their new teams.

If Canberra doesn't get a team until then, that's another two or three decades with the Raiders being the only real ticket in town. Which means a wasted few decades for AFL in Canberra. And possibly another two or three decades with the Giants half-arsing it in Sydney, which is also a massive waste.

 

[Walshawk]

I'm actually on the record for saying that the AFL should dream big and maintain its revenue base (given the decline of TV revenue) by adding new teams and new opportunity for corporate sales by having 22 teams with Canberra, Brisbane 2/SC and Perth 3/SW WA as teams.

I'm big on both Perth 3 and Brisbane 2 for the same reason - AFL needs to move away from TV money as the base of its revenue (which will happen anyway) and reaffirm having opportunities for games in stadiums that people will want to go to.

But the home club gets the revenue from games. How would that help the league or the existing clubs?

 

[Angus Young]

What makes it so bad? A stadium is a stadium

Go to a night game at Optus, a blockbuster at the MCG or any game at Adelaide Oval.

Then go to the Gabba. You will see.

Drive a Lambo then drive a Datsun. Same thing.

 

[The_Reaper]

North probably play less bad in WA than in Victoria, tbh. But shouldn't be "hosting" WA sides over there. Hosting the away side in their territory should be prohinited.
Really, I don't want North playing home games any further away from Victoria than Albury. Every location just starts another media round of "kill them off". Its a shame for the club that the state election at the time went the wrong way for us to be playing in Ballarat, and basically forced the Hobart deal, but well done to the Dogs picking up the opportunity when it came up a few years later.

What’s the difference between North hosting Eagles in Perth and Collingwood hosting Geelong at the G?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

But the home club gets the revenue from games. How would that help the league or the existing clubs?

The AFL industry broadly, having strong clubs that raise lots of revenue.