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Autopsy 3 things you learnt v Hawks
- Thread starter Millky95
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Too long in the NEAFL without a chance and they learn bad habits and lose motivation IMHO.
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I'm with you. I don't think Dew is that good a coach.
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Cant believe how bad nearly all our mids are with there disposal
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I hate to say it but we've spent so much time talking about how well Goodes is "moving" this year but his skill are eroding (even further) right before our eyes.
His effort was as good as anyone last night. He's chasing, crashing into packs, leading of half-back. But he just cant mark, kick or make an effective handball reliably these days.
He's still clearly best 22 but any pipe dream of playing on next year is dead.
His effort was as good as anyone last night. He's chasing, crashing into packs, leading of half-back. But he just cant mark, kick or make an effective handball reliably these days.
He's still clearly best 22 but any pipe dream of playing on next year is dead.
DAZZA_75
Team Captain
Here is some of Longmire's useless comments last night, keep hearing this crap each week,
We have to bounce back quickly as we come up against another tough opponent in West Coast next week.
We had plenty of opportunities to hit targets, but didn't do it. Then they turned that into scores at the other end.
What's usually our strength (defence) was non existent tonight. Thought we were able to get some momentum back in 2nd term...
They're absolutely elite. Our effort wasn't good enough, we had a lot of goals kicked against us.
**** off horse, you absolute useless potato. 2012 was based on the back of Roosy, and the premiership heroes that day were from the 05/06 era. Horse is not a good coach.
Banyo Bloods
Norm Smith Medallist
Based on last couple of games so he'll be fine for next year if he chooses.
Banyo Bloods
Norm Smith Medallist
1) Had we turned the early dominance into scores then the game would not have turned out as bad as it did.
2) Shaw was ok last night took until the last quarter for him to shank it.
3) Nankervis impressed me more than his debut game he is at the least a bit more mobile and competes well wouldn't mind persisting with him in the 1s
2) Shaw was ok last night took until the last quarter for him to shank it.
3) Nankervis impressed me more than his debut game he is at the least a bit more mobile and competes well wouldn't mind persisting with him in the 1s
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My concern is we are trying to create too many jack of all trades, master of none type players. We are losing our structure because we don't really have one and that is mostly due to how we are using Tippett. We need to straighten the team up.
FB: Grundy
CHB: Reid (when Reid is back up ruck throw Laidler/Richards on the other key forward)
R: Nankervis/Pyke (only 1 of them in the team and Nankervis has surpisingly clean hands at times around the ground)
CHF: Franklin
FF: Tippett
Reid is backup ruck and Goodes is our floating tall. Having both Goodes and Reid floating around the ground doesn't seem to be working. Unless we get rid of Tippett, Reid isn't going to get much of a look at the forward line for the next few years, so we need to develop him as a one-on-one defender. None of this loose man crap. Use Laidler/Ted/Rampe as the loose because Reid has the height/strength to compete if he is caught one out with his man. Ted is struggling big time in the one-on-one match ups.
Tippett has big **** and a big arse, leave him at FF and let him use his voluptuous frame. If we are going to c0ntinue with Jetta's 60m I50 kicks, we need Tippett parked about 20m out from goal. Buddy has never been a great contested mark, so from a simplistic view, we aren't playing to our strengths.
Obviously we have weaknesses in the ruck and key defence but we are just turning our forward line into a weakness as well by removing Tippett.
FB: Grundy
CHB: Reid (when Reid is back up ruck throw Laidler/Richards on the other key forward)
R: Nankervis/Pyke (only 1 of them in the team and Nankervis has surpisingly clean hands at times around the ground)
CHF: Franklin
FF: Tippett
Reid is backup ruck and Goodes is our floating tall. Having both Goodes and Reid floating around the ground doesn't seem to be working. Unless we get rid of Tippett, Reid isn't going to get much of a look at the forward line for the next few years, so we need to develop him as a one-on-one defender. None of this loose man crap. Use Laidler/Ted/Rampe as the loose because Reid has the height/strength to compete if he is caught one out with his man. Ted is struggling big time in the one-on-one match ups.
Tippett has big **** and a big arse, leave him at FF and let him use his voluptuous frame. If we are going to c0ntinue with Jetta's 60m I50 kicks, we need Tippett parked about 20m out from goal. Buddy has never been a great contested mark, so from a simplistic view, we aren't playing to our strengths.
Obviously we have weaknesses in the ruck and key defence but we are just turning our forward line into a weakness as well by removing Tippett.
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- Move reid into the defence, play tippo as a ff solely as we all know our mids are going to keep bombing it and nothing will change so we might as well have him there as a target.
- take goodes out of the fwd line, he is just way too slow laterally and all opp backs will just run off him. Make him the sub permanently which would allow him to have more of an impact and when he comes on just let him roam around the ground.
- Have franklin with tippo in the fwd line and then get our mids to rotate through the fwd line. Bring in Heeney/rohan back asap. We need pace in that fwd to make sure the ball doesn't rebound out from there soooo easily like last night.
- We can't afford to carry richard/shaw anymore. One of them must go, prefer it to be richard as we need shaws speed. Actually wouldn't mind seeing both go to bring in zak jones.
- The team is soft. Leaders need to stand up, especially kieren jack. Reminds me of Cotchin, not an A grade mid but will have some rare A grade games.
- We just folded last night and only franklin saved us in the 2nd quarter. Such a pathetic performance. Our team is too one paced for the hitting targets/style of game plan. Rather us to go back to kicking it down the line/creating stoppages, at least that plays more to our strengths and slows down the game which helps us immensely.
- take goodes out of the fwd line, he is just way too slow laterally and all opp backs will just run off him. Make him the sub permanently which would allow him to have more of an impact and when he comes on just let him roam around the ground.
- Have franklin with tippo in the fwd line and then get our mids to rotate through the fwd line. Bring in Heeney/rohan back asap. We need pace in that fwd to make sure the ball doesn't rebound out from there soooo easily like last night.
- We can't afford to carry richard/shaw anymore. One of them must go, prefer it to be richard as we need shaws speed. Actually wouldn't mind seeing both go to bring in zak jones.
- The team is soft. Leaders need to stand up, especially kieren jack. Reminds me of Cotchin, not an A grade mid but will have some rare A grade games.
- We just folded last night and only franklin saved us in the 2nd quarter. Such a pathetic performance. Our team is too one paced for the hitting targets/style of game plan. Rather us to go back to kicking it down the line/creating stoppages, at least that plays more to our strengths and slows down the game which helps us immensely.
1. Horse coached very well in 2012, (even 2013 before it all fell apart)..2014 as well but this may have been due to a lot of talent peaking together....Part of the reason we won 2012 was on the back of a very good game plan that made the best of the list we had. The problem is we've changed the way we play (by not changing enough) to accommodate the big forwards, particularly Buddy which has actually left us less versatile with less goal scoring options. Buddy is a great player who's carried us over the line multiple times, so much to the fact we've become absolutely dependant on him kicking a bag, if he and Tippett don't combine for at least 5-6 goals we struggle.
With Tippett spending too much time in the ruck Buddy is often the lone hand down there against 3, because we don't have any other forwards....this is part of the problem if you're going to play with the 2 big forwards you need to actually put a forward line around them to maximize their presence and make them twice as dangerous. Look at Rioli, Bruest, Puopolo, Cripps, Lecras, Hill..they don't necessarily have to be superstars but you need other competent forwards to go with your keys. Teams have looked at 2014 and figured out what we're doing down there and can exploit it easily enough.
You either play the mobile (makeshift/versatile) 2012 forward line, or the 2 key forwards with an actual forward STRUCTURE them, not a portion of both.
2. Lots of players are being played out of position, some for the sake of 'versatility'. We're not Hawthorn we don't necessarily need all our players to be able to play 10 positions, we only need enough to throw things around a bit when things aren't working (e.g 2012). Too many players are being wasted in others spots.
-Tippett is a full forward (playing as the deepest forward) who should only be pinch hitting in the ruck for no more than 6-8 minutes a quarter. Seriously watch some 2013 games, & early 2014 when he couldn't ruck and had to stay deep or even 2009 when he kicked 50 goals. He plays better deeper, when Walker came on and now Buddy joining us he's been forced up the ground more and his form has dipped. Even this year last quarter v Essendon, 2nd Half v Freo, he played better when he was the deep option with Buddy at CHF..which should be the structure 70% of the time but it's not. Buddy playing too deep, Tippett spending too many minutes rucking.
-Rampe is not a 3rd tall ffs. He should be running half back or lock down medium defender. He'll briefly have periods on taller players ~ ala Mattner ~ but they moments should be very brief, he's being wasted as the 3rd tall and it's not letting him become the player he could potentially be. Stop this and get a genuine 3rd tall in - the reason AJ came good so fast is because he actually got a go. The defence set up will improve with even just this 1 move.
-Richards is not a KD, not anymore anyway ~maybe he's the 3rd tall option. 3rd tall or not don't play him at all.
-Cunningham needs a role, I honestly don't know what he's supposed to be doing atm. Showed a little bit tagging outside players last year and a little bit playing small forward. Give him a role and leave him there.
-If B. Jack is going to play, he's a crumbing small forward who should only be pushing up the ground when the defence is empty. Too much time up the ground with no one at Buddy's feet.
With Tippett spending too much time in the ruck Buddy is often the lone hand down there against 3, because we don't have any other forwards....this is part of the problem if you're going to play with the 2 big forwards you need to actually put a forward line around them to maximize their presence and make them twice as dangerous. Look at Rioli, Bruest, Puopolo, Cripps, Lecras, Hill..they don't necessarily have to be superstars but you need other competent forwards to go with your keys. Teams have looked at 2014 and figured out what we're doing down there and can exploit it easily enough.
You either play the mobile (makeshift/versatile) 2012 forward line, or the 2 key forwards with an actual forward STRUCTURE them, not a portion of both.
2. Lots of players are being played out of position, some for the sake of 'versatility'. We're not Hawthorn we don't necessarily need all our players to be able to play 10 positions, we only need enough to throw things around a bit when things aren't working (e.g 2012). Too many players are being wasted in others spots.
-Tippett is a full forward (playing as the deepest forward) who should only be pinch hitting in the ruck for no more than 6-8 minutes a quarter. Seriously watch some 2013 games, & early 2014 when he couldn't ruck and had to stay deep or even 2009 when he kicked 50 goals. He plays better deeper, when Walker came on and now Buddy joining us he's been forced up the ground more and his form has dipped. Even this year last quarter v Essendon, 2nd Half v Freo, he played better when he was the deep option with Buddy at CHF..which should be the structure 70% of the time but it's not. Buddy playing too deep, Tippett spending too many minutes rucking.
-Rampe is not a 3rd tall ffs. He should be running half back or lock down medium defender. He'll briefly have periods on taller players ~ ala Mattner ~ but they moments should be very brief, he's being wasted as the 3rd tall and it's not letting him become the player he could potentially be. Stop this and get a genuine 3rd tall in - the reason AJ came good so fast is because he actually got a go. The defence set up will improve with even just this 1 move.
-Richards is not a KD, not anymore anyway ~maybe he's the 3rd tall option. 3rd tall or not don't play him at all.
-Cunningham needs a role, I honestly don't know what he's supposed to be doing atm. Showed a little bit tagging outside players last year and a little bit playing small forward. Give him a role and leave him there.
-If B. Jack is going to play, he's a crumbing small forward who should only be pushing up the ground when the defence is empty. Too much time up the ground with no one at Buddy's feet.
1) we are a good side & Hawthorn are a great side.
2) Tippett is not a no. 1 ruck, he's 2nd ruck who should spend the majority of his time deep in the forward line.
3) midfield needs to step up a notch or 2. This is what is letting us down.
2) Tippett is not a no. 1 ruck, he's 2nd ruck who should spend the majority of his time deep in the forward line.
3) midfield needs to step up a notch or 2. This is what is letting us down.
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Don't paint everyone with the same brush SS
Just a question, why wasn't Isaac Heeney selected? From all reports he dominated the NEAFL last week.
Teaser_
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#horsesh*t
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Don't paint everyone with the same brush SS
Just a question, why wasn't Isaac Heeney selected? From all reports he dominated the NEAFL last week.
No fair point, but there seem to be more than most other fan base who seem to not even just enjoy their success? I cant explain
Like say they three peat first reaction will be to log on to the net and bag others, its odd
Heeney played ressies, needed game time
Not fair to rush an 18 year old back underdone i guess
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If accurate we should finish around 6-8th which is where i think we are.
GotTheGoodes
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1 - Stevic is a piece of sh*t.
2 - Tippett needs to play FF. We need to give him & Bud the whole fwd 50 & have him work out of the goal square. To do this we need a fulltime premo ruck like Goldy, Jacobs, NicNat etc etc. As we don't have this we need to utilise Naka as I think we've got a player with him... the issue then is Pyke. It just revolves & revolves.
3 - I've always stated that I think the Hawks are a great side.
Bullies, yes.
Dirty (i.r. "playing at the edge"), yes.
Smug entitled supporters, yes.
Shit (literally) colours, yes.
But a great side, coached well, with some great players. It certainly helps IMO that a large amount have joined up for flag success specifically (forgoing things like money or "one club loyalty" to win a flag) so will seemingly push harder to achieve that (Lake, Gibson, Gunston, Burgoyne, McEvoy, Hale, Frawley etc). And good on the Hawks for picking these guys up, it's not their fault they're a "desired club" or club of choice.
2 - Tippett needs to play FF. We need to give him & Bud the whole fwd 50 & have him work out of the goal square. To do this we need a fulltime premo ruck like Goldy, Jacobs, NicNat etc etc. As we don't have this we need to utilise Naka as I think we've got a player with him... the issue then is Pyke. It just revolves & revolves.
3 - I've always stated that I think the Hawks are a great side.
Bullies, yes.
Dirty (i.r. "playing at the edge"), yes.
Smug entitled supporters, yes.
Shit (literally) colours, yes.
But a great side, coached well, with some great players. It certainly helps IMO that a large amount have joined up for flag success specifically (forgoing things like money or "one club loyalty" to win a flag) so will seemingly push harder to achieve that (Lake, Gibson, Gunston, Burgoyne, McEvoy, Hale, Frawley etc). And good on the Hawks for picking these guys up, it's not their fault they're a "desired club" or club of choice.
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I must admit I do belong to a flog supporting base unfortunately. But there are some good apples (like myself ofcourse
PPP). But I think it has been inflated by the social media boom that has coincided with our success? I don't know, we're probably just knobs.Fair enough on Heeney. I just like seeing young talent on show to the world
Don't paint everyone with the same brush SS
Just a question, why wasn't Isaac Heeney selected? From all reports he dominated the NEAFL last week.
Ur right a few hawk fans are good honest people. It's just that it appears they have a lot of young kids jumping on board yapping sh!t. It will be very interesting what these people do when the hawks slide down the ladder, a few may jump off. I always find it funny how fat Ed is so worried about the northern clubs because in the long term it points to hawthorn taking the mantle of the largest Melbourne club. As for Heeney he's coming back from injury so needs some games in the NEAFL, don't think an 18 year old kid would have made much difference.
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I must admit I do belong to a flog supporting base unfortunately. But there are some good apples (like myself ofcourse
Fair enough on Heeney. I just like seeing young talent on show to the world
Fair play for posting this.
1. I can't see any weakness in that Hawthorn team - very high chance of three peat
2. If Einstein was right, our coaches are mad. (The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.) I keep seeing four Hawthorn players lined up out the back of stoppages leading to quick clearance of congestion and time for the outside players to kick accurately so they maintain possession while we let it happen over and over...
3a. Franklin is a great pick up
3b. Franklin was a bad pick up - the cost has been very high
2. If Einstein was right, our coaches are mad. (The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.) I keep seeing four Hawthorn players lined up out the back of stoppages leading to quick clearance of congestion and time for the outside players to kick accurately so they maintain possession while we let it happen over and over...
3a. Franklin is a great pick up
3b. Franklin was a bad pick up - the cost has been very high
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