Player Watch 32 Travis Cloke

[jmac70]

You are evading the question "Would Cloke accept a 1 yr extension".
You say it doesn't matter . I think it does. Wouldn't mind Cloke for another year with similar conditions as for 2017. Given the ROI of the current contract the club is well justified to be hesitant to throw large sums at him. But I can imagine a certain David C would tell us to GAGF and his boy deserves much better and has years left in him. Cloke hasn't proven that and might be the next in the line of players that we have parted with that rarely reached the heights of 2010. So the next excuse is that in a different climate, different system, different coach he would florish again. And most agree that might even be the case. Can the club risk a new contract again based upon current output?
Next year perhaps a rebuild. Reckon a new coach sees Cloke on his list and wants to build his team around round him?
Club needs picks to invest in youth, easy decision imho.

If I were the list manager I would keep Cloke on the list in 2017. I would address his next contract based on his 2017 performance. If he had a good year then a two year extension would not be out of the question. In the end it matters little, given that the club appear to want to trade him.

 

[DNine]

Exactly! And it's like what they did with Dawes Shaw Beams Harry Wellingham you can't tell me they just all became unhappy with Bucks. Isn't that a trend?

That's an opinion to reinforce your agenda.

Dawes wasn't good enough. If we played him, it was in place of better players at the time. He himself felt the challenge of making our side too much. He wanted to go to a lesser club, so he could be sure to get a game. Now Demons are near the level we were when Dawes was there, he is struggling.

Shaw was not playing by team rules. Leading up to the final where he chucked tantrums toward his team mates, he was doing it all the time. He was warned again and again, and you can't keep saying your spot is on the line again and again, and then not follow through. Adams wanted to come back to Victoria, and Shaw needed to go elsewhere. I thought playing in a poor side, his head would explode the way he was on field with a relatively good side. When Shaw retires, and Adams keeps playing, we will love the trade, while old man Shaw is still playing, and playing well, we may be a little annoyed.

Harry was sick of the other players in the side. He could not get over a homophobic joke. He did have a run in before then, pushing his weight around, and took on Buckley. He didn't understand the respect that is needed to be maintained to your senior coach. That was on him. He was going crazy. He still is. He just took a long time off for concussion, then when he should of been coming back, he said that he was struggling to get over the death of Mohammad Ali. I thought at the time of hearing that, "IS HE FOR REAL". He is a mental case. So glad we got Varcoe for him.

Wellingham is a terrible footballer. He plays a good game once in a while, but usually, he is very under standard. If he still played for us, at that level, we would be so hard on him, calling for his head. We got Brodie Grundy with the pick we got from West Coast, which puts us that far in front it is ridiculous.

Sometimes we see a player not a good fit for us too you know. But because of your anti Buckley agenda, you want to blame Buckley for rubbing players up the wrong way, and people on the outside of the club has NFI.

I can't stand how so many of our so called supporters, don't intelligently look into the history, and see that it is natural to have ups and downs. We look at the two or three sides that defy the reality of this pattern, and say why don't we do that. ALL sides do drop down. We had a side that won a flag, but they are all either retired or shadows of their former selves no matter the club they play for. Wellingham, Thomas, Dawes, Cloke, Blair, MacAffer, Lumumba and Toovey are all barely making AFL standard, NOT Buckley's fault. Swan and Beams injury prone, and prior to this year so too was Ben Reid. Once again, not Buckley's fault. Brown, Pendlebury and Sidebottom within the Pies and Shaw outside are the only players tracking well since. The rest are retired. How the hell is that Buckley's fault.

So we needed to start again because of these things that happened. I think we have set ourselves up well for the future, but it won't be easy, the league is A LOT closer than it used to be back when we won our last premiership. One or two easy games a year, is difficult to overcome when your age profile is young.

If I had a magic wand with one wish, I wouldn't wish we were dominant again, because that will come, I would wish Pie supporters would stop being such sooks. Buckley is NOT the problem. Injuries, Youth, and a very hard competition is. It will take time to be dominant again.

 

[DNine]

As for Cloke, if he is happy enough on $400,000 I think we keep him. We have to stop looking at him as the dominant player we rely on. He is a player that is like many before him at Collingwood, tired and worn out by 28. Plenty of others before him seem to be early retirees or poor. Tarrant retired early, Maxwell didn't go into his 30's. At Collingwood, we rarely have players go into their 32st, 32nd, 33rd year.

I worry about our forward line if Cloke is somewhere else. Moore seems to be a Full Forward. Cox too seems to be Full Forward only. We have no CHF type. Cloke and White are CHF types, but substandard.

If we can get a good CHF, then Cloke and White don't matter, but don't get rid of them two, and think it will all take care of itself. It won't. We will lose games because of it, and then Buckley will be blamed again, even though a lot of supporters are in agreeance that these two should go.

If a club give us a good deal, Cloke will not be at Collingwood. If they can't, then he will be a Pie next year.

 

[PicaBoo]

If I were the list manager I would keep Cloke on the list in 2017. I would address his next contract based on his 2017 performance. If he had a good year then a two year extension would not be out of the question. In the end it matters little, given that the club appear to want to trade him.

Still evading . Is that acceptable to the Cloke camp given the situation Cloke is in now with no guarantees for 2017.

 

[legendstatus]

I think with Moore, Cox, White and the return of Elliott & Fasolo, it's the making of a reasonable forward line ? Don't reckon Cloke would make it any better or worse.


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[dansa]

If I were the list manager I would keep Cloke on the list in 2017. I would address his next contract based on his 2017 performance. If he had a good year then a two year extension would not be out of the question. In the end it matters little, given that the club appear to want to trade him.I

We really don't know whether the club want to trade him more than he wants out.

Sure it appears the club has lost confidence in his ability to be best 22 in 2017. And rightly so.

And if another club offers Cloke 2-3 year contract I'd be surprised if he didn't request a trade.

No one can argue his form has warranted selection. Therefore we can't read too much into him being regularly dropped to the reserves other than that is his current level.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Carlisle will prove to be very good for StKilda. The WADA ban came after they recruited him and very few people saw that coming.

Anyway we agree to disagree.

Cloke will be what hes worth and not a penny more. I dont agree that we somehow should hold out for a better deal

 

[Saintly Viewed]

only if he performs to a level that he should be. but gee except for the gws game we have looked better with out him

Alas, can't argue with that.
Form is the ultimate arbitar

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

I keep hearing he will be good at the dogs to take some heat off Boyd, or at Hawks to replace Roughy and help Sicily development. It's not like we have a young developing key forward who needs protection for a year or two.

 

[THATSGOLD]

That's an opinion to reinforce your agenda.

Dawes wasn't good enough. If we played him, it was in place of better players at the time. He himself felt the challenge of making our side too much. He wanted to go to a lesser club, so he could be sure to get a game. Now Demons are near the level we were when Dawes was there, he is struggling.

Shaw was not playing by team rules. Leading up to the final where he chucked tantrums toward his team mates, he was doing it all the time. He was warned again and again, and you can't keep saying your spot is on the line again and again, and then not follow through. Adams wanted to come back to Victoria, and Shaw needed to go elsewhere. I thought playing in a poor side, his head would explode the way he was on field with a relatively good side. When Shaw retires, and Adams keeps playing, we will love the trade, while old man Shaw is still playing, and playing well, we may be a little annoyed.

Harry was sick of the other players in the side. He could not get over a homophobic joke. He did have a run in before then, pushing his weight around, and took on Buckley. He didn't understand the respect that is needed to be maintained to your senior coach. That was on him. He was going crazy. He still is. He just took a long time off for concussion, then when he should of been coming back, he said that he was struggling to get over the death of Mohammad Ali. I thought at the time of hearing that, "IS HE FOR REAL". He is a mental case. So glad we got Varcoe for him.

Wellingham is a terrible footballer. He plays a good game once in a while, but usually, he is very under standard. If he still played for us, at that level, we would be so hard on him, calling for his head. We got Brodie Grundy with the pick we got from West Coast, which puts us that far in front it is ridiculous.

Sometimes we see a player not a good fit for us too you know. But because of your anti Buckley agenda, you want to blame Buckley for rubbing players up the wrong way, and people on the outside of the club has NFI.

I can't stand how so many of our so called supporters, don't intelligently look into the history, and see that it is natural to have ups and downs. We look at the two or three sides that defy the reality of this pattern, and say why don't we do that. ALL sides do drop down. We had a side that won a flag, but they are all either retired or shadows of their former selves no matter the club they play for. Wellingham, Thomas, Dawes, Cloke, Blair, MacAffer, Lumumba and Toovey are all barely making AFL standard, NOT Buckley's fault. Swan and Beams injury prone, and prior to this year so too was Ben Reid. Once again, not Buckley's fault. Brown, Pendlebury and Sidebottom within the Pies and Shaw outside are the only players tracking well since. The rest are retired. How the hell is that Buckley's fault.

So we needed to start again because of these things that happened. I think we have set ourselves up well for the future, but it won't be easy, the league is A LOT closer than it used to be back when we won our last premiership. One or two easy games a year, is difficult to overcome when your age profile is young.

If I had a magic wand with one wish, I wouldn't wish we were dominant again, because that will come, I would wish Pie supporters would stop being such sooks. Buckley is NOT the problem. Injuries, Youth, and a very hard competition is. It will take time to be dominant again.

Rubbish. All 5 were premiership players that had us first on the ladder for two seasons running!

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

Rubbish. All 5 were premiership players that had us first on the ladder for two seasons running!

Serious question, going forward you can have Grundy, Adams & Varcoe or Wellingham, Shaw & O'Brien, which would you choose?

 

[DNine]

Rubbish. All 5 were premiership players that had us first on the ladder for two seasons running!

They are rubbish now, and they were rubbish in the year they were looking to be traded. Dawes, Harry, Thomas and Wellingham are four that were and still are not worth it. None of them would of got a game in Hawthorns premiership side. Shaw and Beams would. It is ok to have a couple of players that are up and down in form heading into a Grand Final, and these players played out of their skins that year, but they were faulty over all, and have proved that, but you are not interested in looking at that.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I keep hearing he will be good at the dogs to take some heat off Boyd, or at Hawks to replace Roughy and help Sicily development. It's not like we have a young developing key forward who needs protection for a year or two.

Spot on

 

[THATSGOLD]

They are rubbish now, and they were rubbish in the year they were looking to be traded. Dawes, Harry, Thomas and Wellingham are four that were and still are not worth it. None of them would of got a game in Hawthorns premiership side. Shaw and Beams would. It is ok to have a couple of players that are up and down in form heading into a Grand Final, and these players played out of their skins that year, but they were faulty over all, and have proved that, but you are not interested in looking at that.

They might be now but they weren't when we had them 2010 and 2011.

 

[Apex36]

I don't think it is a money issue Apex36 with our Club. Dropping a Premiership player three times in one season means to me he is a gonna.

Let's be realistic if we get a late 2nd rounder for a VFL player we should be doing cart wheels.

By the way you're right he is only on $400,000 next year.

I don't think I said it's a money issue? My point is that the club is unlikely to move him on if they feel the deal proposed by another club is not worthwhile.

The good news is that of Cloke is as desperate to move on as some say he is, and multiple clubs are interested, his trade value is likely to go up. Even if he nominates a club, if they offer a shit deal but a rival offers something great, we can just say nope, we'll keep you listed unless you go to x club, or your nominated club matches their trade offer.

Collingwood actually have quite a strong hand in any negotiations if multiple clubs are interested, as has been reported.

 

[PicaBoo]

They might be now but they weren't when we had them 2010 and 2011.

Noted. Guess which year we are living in now?

 

[Anzacday]

Noted. Guess which year we are living in now?

And what year we traded them!

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

I don't think I said it's a money issue? My point is that the club is unlikely to move him on if they feel the deal proposed by another club is not worthwhile.

The good news is that of Cloke is as desperate to move on as some say he is, and multiple clubs are interested, his trade value is likely to go up. Even if he nominates a club, if they offer a shit deal but a rival offers something great, we can just say nope, we'll keep you listed unless you go to x club, or your nominated club matches their trade offer.

Collingwood actually have quite a strong hand in any negotiations if multiple clubs are interested, as has been reported.

 

[Kirby]

I haven't seen any of the VFL game yet but it's good to see that he kicked 5 goals and so he should at that level in a comprehensive win.

I'm more interested though in whether he ran, harassed, tackled etc. For those that watched it how did he go in that department?

 

[CFC2010]

I haven't seen any of the VFL game yet but it's good to see that he kicked 5 goals and so he should at that level in a comprehensive win.

I'm more interested though in whether he ran, harassed, tackled etc. For those that watched it how did he go in that department?

It wasn't a comprehensive win Kirby........to be honest I was surprised he got five goals.

It was a good effort nothing more nothing less.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Noted. Guess which year we are living in now?

Understood but stuffing up what could've been to try put us in a better position now hasn't worked. We sacrificed them for this rubbish.

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

Understood but stuffing up what could've been to try put us in a better position now hasn't worked. We sacrificed them for this rubbish.

Another serious question, we don't make any list changes from 2011-2013, do you believe we would be a better side than Hawthorn?

 

[jmac70]

Still evading . Is that acceptable to the Cloke camp given the situation Cloke is in now with no guarantees for 2017.

How would I know?

 

[PicaBoo]

Understood but stuffing up what could've been to try put us in a better position now hasn't worked. We sacrificed them for this rubbish.

Interesting change of narrative. So now you're ok with it if it would have been successful. Well the club has tried to put us in a better position with those picks but that hasn't worked out yet.
And what is this about sacrifice? Giving players a chance to continue their downward spiral at a new club while they are still worth something?

 

[PicaBoo]

How would I know?

You don't have to know, just an opinion.
I don’t think the 1 yr extension/ holding off is going to fly at all given the circumstances of both club and player. Apparently you think it should have played out that way and I wonder why you would say that.