Free Agent # 6: Joe Daniher (part 1)

[Essendonia]

OK

Gumbys been at the club 6 years for an average of 4.5 games a season, continuously breaks down and is on his last legs as reflected by the club only offering a 1 year deal. Gumby's a huge chance not to be on the list in 2014.

Daniher will almost certainly play more than 4.5 games this year, he will be on the list in 2014, and ask any opposition club who'd they prefer on their list right now out of Gumby & Daniher...

Simply (and somewhat harshly) put - Gumby has tried and failed, Daniher is untried and based on this article, training reports etc etc will play a big part (certainly a bigger part than Gumby) for the Bombers in 2013.

As much as I echo your optimism, none of your points (apart from training form) really advance your case that JD is ahead. He may be a better prospect, but not necessarily ahead of Gumby right now.

 

[calyam]

because he's 24 years old and has a body ready for AFL football? Daniher is a stick

One thing we know without a shadow of a doubt is that Gumby does not have a body ready for AFL football. He barely has a body ready for AFL training.

Anyway, based on what Hird has been recently quoted as saying Daniher is more than ready to play in the seniors. Combine this with Gumbly's inability to get his body right and you'd think that Daniher will play more games than Gumbly in 2013 and be higher in the pecking order.

 

[daffo]

If both are fit, they can fit into the same side. (most likely because we'll have injuries to other KPP).

 

[rines]

The fact they want to play JD, won't change the fact that they won't want to overuse/over stretch his still developing body.

JD will play as much as he is fit, to acquire game experience and match fitness, and Gumby will fit around him for the four games he plays...

But comparing player X to player Y and saying one is better because of amount of games played... just silly.

Under those odds, Henneman is better than Heppell.. eeeek!

 

[Essendonia]

This has become a confused discussion.

1. Whether Gumby or JD is ahead in terms of selection.
2. Whether Gumby or JD will play more games.

1. Depite Hird's recent comments, this must be tempered (as Hird indeed did) with the consideration that JD will only be 19 in the season proper and is untried at VFL or AFL standard - though we know he has potentially been training at a higher level than other draftees over the past year or so with access to EFC facilities. Gumby has already had at least one (albeit minor [reportedly]) setback this pre-season, and most would consider this to be his final chance (season) to redeem himself on the field. He has been a huge investment for the club over six+ years and will be given every opportunity to prove himself. The nature of these opportunities, though, leads to the next issue.

2. There are a number of factors that could influence the opportunities afforded to each of Gumby and JD, and the question too must be asked of whether they could appear in the same forward line. Naturally, injuries may present extra chances to one or the other, and the positional fates of Hurley and Ryder necessarily ought be considered. The 'hype' on JD might lead to him getting an early debut, but for how long he remains in the team would be an unknown. Further, it might simply be another word from Hird - saying a debut is earlier than expected, if they expected June originally, perhaps it's now late April or May, not necessarily March.

If JD comes in, kicks 2-3 a game and hauls in a few contested marks, with Gumby fit an raring to go on the sidelines, will they rest JD and let Gumby have a crack, or let JD play out his form and keep GUmby in reserve. Too many hypotheticals.

I'm just hoping Gumby gets his body right and notches up 10-15 games and 25-30 goals, and JD debuts and starts getting touch with VFL or AFL footy. At this stage, my hopes are with Gumby, as his time may be running out, and JD is a young jet who has all the time in the world to develop and show his wares.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

"and he is only a kid"

 

[BrewSmackerVeiny]

"and he is only a kid"

But he's big for his age.

 

[Old Campaigner]

OK

Gumbys been at the club 6 years for an average of 4.5 games a season, continuously breaks down and is on his last legs as reflected by the club only offering a 1 year deal. Gumby's a huge chance not to be on the list in 2014.

Daniher will almost certainly play more than 4.5 games this year, he will be on the list in 2014, and ask any opposition club who'd they prefer on their list right now out of Gumby & Daniher...

Simply (and somewhat harshly) put - Gumby has tried and failed, Daniher is untried and based on this article, training reports etc etc will play a big part (certainly a bigger part than Gumby) for the Bombers in 2013.

This is an argument for the long term prospects of both players and I agree: JD is a better long term prospect than Gumby.

But if we are talking about starting lineups this season then a fit Gumby will be picked ahead of JD any day of the week. Big defenders will ragdoll JD until he puts on more weight and he can't be a truly effective tall forward until he can hold his own against the big KPDs.

 

[The Bomb]

Gumbleton has done nothing to convince me he will be a really good footballer, at this stage I still think it is a 50/50 between Daniher and Gumby and if I was to have a stab in the dark I will say Daniher will be ahead of Gumby very quickly once given the opportunity, I just think Daniher has simular strengths and weaknesses to gumby but just more of a natural forward and competitor, maybe even more verstile at ground level also, Gumby in 2012 does not look as clean in the air as he did when he was younger either, where Daniher looks like a master in the air.

Also Gumby 1 on 1 body on body is pretty poor, so I would not be suggesting that Gumby would be picked before Daniher because Daniher will be monstered in the 1 on 1s.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Gumby could well have less talent than JD, we haven't seen enough of either to make that call; but all the natural talent in the world won't help you out-muscle a bigger opponent.

 

[The Bomb]

Gumby could well have less talent than JD, we haven't seen enough of either to make that call; but all the natural talent in the world won't help you out-muscle a bigger opponent.

Name 1 bigger opponent Gumby has out muscled?

I remember seeing Gumby doing some 1 on 1 work with Hooker and Hooker made him look 2nd rate and I have had my doubts ever since.
If it was Hurley ....

 

[Old Campaigner]

That's not the point.

When not injured Gumby is bigger, stronger and has a better fitness base than JD, making him my preferred option. Just to clarify, that doesn't mean he will always be ahead of JD but if strength is a key attribute (besides height) of tall targets up forward then JD has a year or so to go before that happens.

Name a tall defender (not a hack, lets keep this realistic) that JD could beat in a contest of strength.

 

[The Bomb]

That's not the point.

When not injured Gumby is bigger, stronger and has a better fitness base than JD, making him my preferred option. Just to clarify, that doesn't mean he will always be ahead of JD but if strength is a key attribute (besides height) of tall targets up forward then JD has a year or so to go before that happens.

Name a tall defender (not a hack, lets keep this realistic) that JD could beat in a contest of strength.

Well when talking about daniher 1 on 1 his height could cause alot of defenders problems he will have 5-10cm on most defenders which could really make it a hard task for any defender something Gumby just does not have, Tippett had this advantage also and can cause all sorts of problems for defenders 1 on 1.

if Hurley, Ryder and Crameri are forward who will teams line up on any of them, you wont want Daniher with a 10+cm height advantage this will take strength out of the equation.

 

[eth-dog]

Well when talking about daniher 1 on 1 his height could cause alot of defenders problems he will have 5-10cm on most defenders which could really make it a hard task for any defender something Gumby just does not have.

gumby is 3 cm's shorter than Daniher.

 

[The Bomb]

gumby is 3 cm's shorter than Daniher.

Daniher is the same height as Bellchambers. look at them when together, exact same height.
that would be 202cm.

 

[eth-dog]

Daniher is the same height as Bellchambers. look at them when together, exact same height.
that would be 202cm.

Daniher is 200 officially, Gumby 197 officially. Daniher get's 2cm with his hair

 

[The Bomb]

Daniher is 200 officially, Gumby 197 officially. Daniher get's 2cm with his hair

actually 201cm on the Essendon website, so 4cm does not seem much, but when players like
Rutten 190cm
Glass 192cm
Talia 195cm
Merrett 195cm
Jamison 193cm
McPharlin 192cm
Taylor 193cm
Thompson 193cm
Richards 192cm

These are the oppositions best KPD and Daniher has alot of height on them and that is if they don't go to Hurley or Ryder 1st otherwise he could have 10-15cm+ on a lot of other players. I believe most defenders can cope with 4 or 5cm but when it is pushing 8+ it become a huge task.
and he is not like any old resting ruckman as he has mobility and a natural instinct how to play forward.
But each to their own.

 

[Nifft]

Daniher get's 2cm with his hair

Not any more.

 

[bombermick]

A few of us may slip into a deep depression if Daniher doesn't overtake Gumby, but it's not likely to be this year. Gumby has been a massive investment and they'll persist with him in what should be the peak years of his career. They will also be mindful of destroying Joe's body and confidence.

It's possible he does a Jeremy Cameron, but a Patton-like year (without the injuries hopefully) is more likely.

 

[eth-dog]

actually 201cm on the Essendon website, so 4cm does not seem much, but when players like
Rutten 190cm
Glass 192cm
Talia 195cm
Merrett 195cm
Jamison 193cm
McPharlin 192cm
Taylor 193cm
Thompson 193cm
Richards 192cm

These are the oppositions best KPD and Daniher has alot of height on them and that is if they don't go to Hurley or Ryder 1st otherwise he could have 10-15cm+ on a lot of other players. I believe most defenders can cope with 4 or 5cm but when it is pushing 8+ it become a huge task.
and he is not like any old resting ruckman as he has mobility and a natural instinct how to play forward.
But each to their own.

of the two tallest ones:

Merrett plays fwd/ruck now and Talia is a 3rd year player

 

[Burzum]

A few of us may slip into a deep depression if Daniher doesn't overtake Gumby, but it's not likely to be this year. Gumby has been a massive investment and they'll persist with him in what should be the peak years of his career. They will also be mindful of destroying Joe's body and confidence.

It's possible he does a Jeremy Cameron, but a Patton-like year (without the injuries hopefully) is more likely.

Don't you dare destroy my hopes of a 50 goal season.

 

[Jobe Watson]

A few of us may slip into a deep depression if Daniher doesn't overtake Gumby, but it's not likely to be this year. Gumby has been a massive investment and they'll persist with him in what should be the peak years of his career. They will also be mindful of destroying Joe's body and confidence.

It's possible he does a Jeremy Cameron, but a Patton-like year (without the injuries hopefully) is more likely.

Shut up. It's Coleman or bust for Daniher in 2013. Anything less than that and we have to seriously consider letting the boy go.

 

[bombermick]

Shut up. It's Coleman or bust for Daniher in 2013. Anything less than that and we have to seriously consider letting the boy go.

3rd rounder?

 

[IriDiuM]

3rd rounder?

May have to throw in Ricky Dyson Brent Prismall Angus Monfries just who is our trade whipping boy now?

 

[eth-dog]

May have to throw in Ricky Dyson Brent Prismall Angus Monfries just who is our trade whipping boy now?

Jetta