Society/Culture A basic income for citizens.

[VineyIsLORD]

Bangs head against the wall. Are you really using a catchphrase from the industrial revolution era? Did all the jobs disappear then when machines took all the jobs previously done by humans? Nope. Machines, computers and robots create goods and services that frees up men to do other things. Growth and improvement in living standards are created by such technology. If robots take away all the medical, teaching, accounting, manufacturing jobs then human civilisation will improve as we will have more free time for leisure and more free workers for creative jobs that are much more interesting such as writing, art, music etc. robots will cause short term displacement problems but in the medium to longer term they will elevate human civilisation to a new level of living as all previous technology booms did.

This is very different from machination or industrialisation.

As i have said many times in this thread this could be a really good thing for humanity if handled correctly. But it will take a change in our economic system. All the leisure and creative time has to come from somewhere, and a bsic income is a good start which is why I have said its an absolute certainty to happen over time. You cant halt progress, only how you react to it.

You keep acting like you disagree with me, and then end up rehashing things i have already said. Lol.

Settle petal.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

You're hinting at regulations and other red tape to strangle employers. When employers close up everybody loses.

If you want to see what 21st century socialism looks like then look at Venezuela. Even the hard left Green-Left weekly no longer mentions the glorious revolution in Venuzeula.

Jesus christ this is stupid.

Nobody is talking about stopping progress, people are recommending a basic income as a way of offsetting massive job losses that will occur with massive automation.

Its a good thing, but the safety net will need to be drastically expanded as humans move from being workers to being creative.

Venezuela is completely irrelevant to the thread.

 

[Todman]

This is very different from machination or industrialisation.


You keep acting like you disagree with me, and then end up rehashing things i have already said. Lol.

Settle petal.

If you re-read your posts you may pick up that you changed your position regularly.

Nobody is talking about stopping progress, people are recommending a basic income as a way of offsetting massive job losses that will occur with massive automation.

Venezuela is completely irrelevant to the thread.

Automation will not create massive job losses, so you want to promote socialist policies to avoid that from happening. Don't believe socialism is progressive because it isn't, its regressive, (evidence: North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela & all the countries caught behind the "Iron Curtain".)

Socialism screws the people it claims to help. History teaches us that what I've said is true.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

If you re-read your posts you may pick up that you changed your position regularly.



Automation will not create massive job losses, so you want to promote socialist policies to avoid that from happening. Don't believe socialism is progressive because it isn't, its regressive, (evidence: North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela & all the countries caught behind the "Iron Curtain".)

Socialism screws the people it claims to help. History teaches us that what I've said is true.

Well please do go ahead and point out where my position has changed.

The countries you just mentioned are authoritarian or developing, or both.

You do not know what socialism actually is.

 

[Todman]

You do not know what socialism actually is.

I do know the ideals of socialism and the reality of socialism are two very different things.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

I do know the ideals of socialism and the reality of socialism are two very different things.

You dont know s**t.

Australia has many, many socialist systems in place already.

 

[Seeds]

This is very different from machination or industrialisation.

As i have said many times in this thread this could be a really good thing for humanity if handled correctly. But it will take a change in our economic system. All the leisure and creative time has to come from somewhere, and a bsic income is a good start which is why I have said its an absolute certainty to happen over time. You cant halt progress, only how you react to it.

You keep acting like you disagree with me, and then end up rehashing things i have already said. Lol.

Settle petal.

I can't see a basic income being a good system. It will result in some people permanently quitting work and others will continue to work long hours as they will end up having to work longer to fund the people who quit. Not a fair system. You need to enforce a work structure that encourages flexibility and enables all people to benefit from robots and automation in terms of increased leisure opportunities. Not having a basic income but enabling people to work 3 and 4 day work weeks in permanent jobs if they like is the way things have to go. Enabling people to work from home and their own daily hours also will improve living standards.

Whilst I don't thing a basic income is a good system fixing up welfare payment systems and making them more humane is needed. Paying people welfare to retrain and educate should be something to be pursued. Higher education also needs to be a lot cheaper and people need to be better directed into education programmes where jobs will actually be.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

View attachment 255364

If your comic was true then why are low income jobs still in Australia? Like toilet cleaning?

Certainly some low-income jobs went overseas like factory line production workers, however this happened when people in those countries could be paid less that a dollar a day. Obviously it is a race to the bottom if you think we need to retain those workers by offering a similar payment level.

If you weren't ideologically taken by one side, you might also see that the fact those human-driven factories have moved overseas has not helped those companies innovate (unless you count as 'innovation' the fact that so many of those products are poorly-made, unless the corporation is highly involved in the process, and so now we have 'built in obsolescence' as a common feature of clothes/electronics/etc?). The factories that remained in western nations like Germany or Australia have instead innovated to ensure they retain value and remain relatively economically viable. Meanwhile in America where the minimum wage is very low by our standards, you don't hear people declaring their manufacturing is in a healthy state.

A strong economy with a lot of people earning a lot of money and high revenue levels that allow for high education levels; all that helps create jobs that are highly-skilled. Advanced manufacturing has smart people working in the factories, rather than process workers doing 'menial' jobs. Valuing an individual's time highly has undoubtedly created huge amounts of efficiency in the economy.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

We're all canaries for this new world. At best you can argue we're fifteen years into the internet/globalised era, nobody knows what's going to happen. Like all big changes, the printing press, the steam engine, nobody saw it coming.

At least we have a lot of pr0n to watch on the journey.

 

[Max zero]

Honestly a basic income will be required eventually. Automation is going to eliminate a lot more jobs then it will save.

The thing is in Australia we are partly there already. Our tax system is extremely progressive, you don't have to work a lot of hours to have a 'livable' lifestyle. Now what level 'livable' is considered to be will be a point of much debate but it will be reached eventually.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Honestly a basic income will be required eventually. Automation is going to eliminate a lot more jobs then it will save.

The thing is in Australia we are partly there already. Our tax system is extremely progressive, you don't have to work a lot of hours to have a 'livable' lifestyle. Now what level 'livable' is considered to be will be a point of much debate but it will be reached eventually.

Its important to remember that automation could end up pushing prices for goods even further down, as long as we regulate against monopolies and anti competitive behaviour. So it could well mean that a basic income doesnt have to be $3k a month. It could end up being $1.5k instead. And then more funding for completely free higher education and the like to encourage peoples creativity.

Exciting times

 

[Catbox]

VineyIsLord is a perfect example why this is an absolutely terrible idea.

"Im on holidays. Hence the high post rate."

Yet craps on about people needing creativity time


Spending all day on Bigfooty forums is not creative at all.

Joined:
May 16
Posts:
2,126

 

[The Edukator]

more likely permanent holiday.

 

[Max zero]

Its important to remember that automation could end up pushing prices for goods even further down, as long as we regulate against monopolies and anti competitive behaviour. So it could well mean that a basic income doesnt have to be $3k a month. It could end up being $1.5k instead. And then more funding for completely free higher education and the like to encourage peoples creativity.

Exciting times

If you really want extreme sci fi theory you can start thinking about the idea of a universal constructor using nano technology. Basically the idea that any physical substence/object can be manufactured atom by atom bypassing the entire manufacturing process.

It may sound crazy but look at the drama 3D printers are causing some industries and how much money China is throwing into development of them. They are just the beginning.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

VineyIsLord is a perfect example why this is an absolutely terrible idea.

"Im on holidays. Hence the high post rate."

Yet craps on about people needing creativity time


Spending all day on Bigfooty forums is not creative at all.

Joined:
May 16
Posts:
2,126

Relevant

 

[Catbox]

more likely permanent holiday.

If you really want extreme sci fi theory you can start thinking about the idea of a universal constructor using nano technology. Basically the idea that any physical substence/object can be manufactured atom by atom bypassing the entire manufacturing process.

It may sound crazy but look at the drama 3D printers are causing some industries and how much money China is throwing into development of them. They are just the beginning.

First thing I'm printing on my 3D printer is a 3D printer

 

[Scotland]

'You wouldn't download a car...'

Just watch me, kents.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

If you really want extreme sci fi theory you can start thinking about the idea of a universal constructor using nano technology. Basically the idea that any physical substence/object can be manufactured atom by atom bypassing the entire manufacturing process.

It may sound crazy but look at the drama 3D printers are causing some industries and how much money China is throwing into development of them. They are just the beginning.

Which would also make everything re-usable if you break it back down. Everything could be tailored to the individual user, etc. A little way off, of course.

 

[kickazz]

On topic. The Senate candidates are out, and after reviewing the Victorian ones, the Pirate Party is the only one to mention a basic income.

Front and centre on their website when i checked, seems to be based on the Friedman model.

 

[Todman]

If you really want extreme sci fi theory you can start thinking about the idea of a universal constructor using nano technology. Basically the idea that any physical substence/object can be manufactured atom by atom bypassing the entire manufacturing process.

It may sound crazy but look at the drama 3D printers are causing some industries and how much money China is throwing into development of them. They are just the beginning.

One nuclear power station coming right up.

 

[Max zero]

One nuclear power station coming right up.

While I know you are joking imagine if people start creating rare metals? What happens to global resource markets? The cosmetic diamond market is only maintained through strict supply control.

It's the same way with patent laws trying to deal with 3D printing now.

 

[Power Raid]

While I know you are joking imagine if people start creating rare metals? What happens to global resource markets? The cosmetic diamond market is only maintained through strict supply control.

It's the same way with patent laws trying to deal with 3D printing now.

The global resource market is quite inefficient having to apply for title to explore, explore with low probability of finding economic grades, waiting 25 years for the grades to be economic, going through a 7 year development process and then shipping the elements around the world.

I don't think 3D printers will ever create elements but we will certainly get better at breaking elements down through recycling and uneconomic ores (from today's perspective) and using only what we need to build products. It will be fantastic!


A 3D printer the size of a large house has been built in Bibra Lake to make haul packs and houses. What will that do to the construction industry (albeit 5-10 years away)!

 

[VineyIsLORD]

This is one of the most optimistic threads on SRP. Love it.

 

[Scotland]

It wasn't that long ago we were talking about reforming the welfare system and now we're down at an elemental level. BigFooty delivers.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

It wasn't that long ago we were talking about reforming the welfare system and now we're down at an elemental level. BigFooty delivers.

Muhahha you just wait til i start 3d printing a new sun.