Society/Culture A basic income for citizens.

[medusala]

The progress of artificial intelligence shifts that. We can conceivably do without humans for almost all jobs, both high paying white collar and lower paying blue collar workers.

A good example of that is High Frequency Trading and black box hedge funds based on algos. Such trading now accounts for a pretty decent % of turnover. Hasn't dramatically affected employment and incomes as yet.

Probably a better example is the response to the min wage rise in the US where some fast food outlets are looking to automate more or less everything.

 

[medusala]

That is of course, if you believe we will maintain a capitalist system whilst it overtly harms 99% of the population.

The harm capitalism does is far more subtle whilst people are working...

Have you considered moving to North Korea?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

I doubt it will matter. You won't need to worry about the hoi polloi rising up when you have drones at your service. The tension between the elite and the masses has always been because the elite need the masses to both work for them and protect them. When that pact is gone I doubt it will be pretty for the poorer majority.

Even Aristotle understood that without a middle class to act as a sponge, the elite are dead.

In a globalised world the global middle class and working class act as that sponge. Our governments slaughter the poor en masse and we shug and worry about how dangerous the poor are.

But remove that sponge an its a small elite polished rock rubbing up against a very hard place. There aren't enough bullets in the world to solve that problem for the rich.

And capitalism always needs customers, it just doesn't have a way of balancing its need for customers against its need for ever cheaper (or in this case free) labour.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Have you considered moving to North Korea?

Mad that your own stats support my argument?

I would be too if I was that stupid.

 

[coerced]

"Disruptive innovation" = employeeless businesses

I'm surprised more people don't understand the implications.

Amazon's an interesting one - at my work we made about 10 people redundant recently by going with AWS for a number of our processes and databases. That equates to about 5% of our staff, with likely more coming in the future. These aren't shit kicker jobs either - these are jobs that required degrees and paid six figure incomes.

We held out for years because of the commercial sensitivity of our data and systems, but the services offered by Amazon were too good to refuse. I'd love to say the guys who got sacked will be fine in the job market, but I don't think they will.

A good example of that is High Frequency Trading and black box hedge funds based on algos. Such trading now accounts for a pretty decent % of turnover. Hasn't dramatically affected employment and incomes as yet.

It will.

Probably a better example is the response to the min wage rise in the US where some fast food outlets are looking to automate more or less everything.

Happening in Australia all ready - what do people think the create your own burger thing at McDonalds is about?

 

[medusala]

Our governments slaughter the poor en masse and we shug and worry about how dangerous the poor are.

And the principle way they do that is via mass immigration which suppresses their wages (and benefits the rich).

Yet the left scream "racist" at anyone who points out the obvious.

Figbooty is a brilliant example of this glaring hypocrisy.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

And the principle way they do that is via mass immigration which suppresses their wages (and benefits the rich).

Yet the left scream "racist" at anyone who points out the obvious.

Figbooty is a brilliant example of this glaring hypocrisy.

You mistake socially progressive neoliberals like the Greens for 'the left'.

 

[medusala]

It will.

Maybe. Phone broking now is much smaller than electronic. I think the issue is sales ie you cant automate a machine flogging crap financial products to someone that they really shouldn't be buying!

Mad that your own stats support my argument?

I would be too if I was that stupid.

Lol. Nothing supports your argument. Real wages rose as I said. To suggest that was because of anti colonialism is just making a knob of yourself.

Why isn't Haiti rich? It should be under your perverted logic.

 

[coerced]

Maybe. Phone broking now is much smaller than electronic. I think the issue is sales ie you cant automate a machine flogging crap financial products to someone that they really shouldn't be buying!

If Facebook can game their News Feed to make people read political opinions they as a company agree with, it won't be far off until there are financial algorithms programmed to be as shifty as Bernie Madoff.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Maybe. Phone broking now is much smaller than electronic. I think the issue is sales ie you cant automate a machine flogging crap financial products to someone that they really shouldn't be buying!

You are probably right on this. Softer skills like teaching, sales, PR, political science etc will be around longer than most.

 

[medusala]

If Facebook can game their News Feed to make people read political opinions they as a company agree with, it won't be far off until there are financial algorithms programmed to be as shifty as Bernie Madoff.

Yes interesting that. The common argument was that the web was an antidote to the perceived bias of the printed / mainstream press.

I think people are perhaps starting to think that may not be the case after all. There is also the argument that the net is brilliant at creating monopolies like google, amazon, ebay etc.

 

[The Edukator]

I genuinely wonder how many of you anti capitalists actually work jobs that increasingly reward you for more experience, knowledge and hours worked. most likely your earning capacities have small to medium caps would be my guess.

 

[coerced]

Yes interesting that. The common argument was that the web was an antidote to the perceived bias of the printed / mainstream press.

I think people are perhaps starting to think that may not be the case after all. There is also the argument that the net is brilliant at creating monopolies like google, amazon, ebay etc.

The network effects and low barriers to entry are huge advantages. Uber, for instance, not only destroys every taxi company it comes across around the world but also prevents rivals, simply by network effects, from establishing a foothold. Much like Westfield might destroy a local high street by building a mall nearby, but unlike Uber, Westfield isn't able to spread rapidly and achieve market saturation everywhere.

In 21st century capitalism, first to market wins, and the winner takes all.

 

[coerced]

I genuinely wonder how many of you anti capitalists actually work jobs that increasingly reward you for more experience, knowledge and hours worked. most likely your earning capacities have small to medium caps would be my guess.

What industry do you work in?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

I genuinely wonder how many of you anti capitalists actually work jobs that increasingly reward you for more experience, knowledge and hours worked. most likely your earning capacities have small to medium caps would be my guess.

Thanks for being completely off topic.

It is a very valid question to ask how a capitalist system, that relies on increasing amounts of customers but decreasing wages, will deal with automation. A basic income is a potential solution.

Do you have anything to add you angry classist potato?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

What industry do you work in?

He is obviously upper lower middle class and wants evryone to know about it.

 

[Todman]

You are probably right on this. Softer skills like teaching, sales, PR, political science etc will be around longer than most.

There will always be a need for a tradie.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

There will always be a need for a tradie.

I would hope so. But on what scale? And worse, at what pay?

This is coming. Not tomorrow but very soon. And the youth are already more or less locked out of the good job market.

Expanding on my initial post and meds subsequent point: it is going to be creative and cerebral people that will do the best in this environment. The rest of the population might just find itself doing nothing except consuming.

Its a very serious challenge for the world regardless of ideological persuasion

 

[coerced]

Tradies to fix odd jobs around old houses? Probably.

Tradies for large scale projects, construction sites, new housing developments? No way.

It the next 10-20 years someone will come up with a way to build houses according to architect specifications that is done by an entirely robotic workforce with a few days. The architect will probably still have a job, but the question will be: who is he designing the house for?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

We were always told if you worked hard, developed skills/intelligence, you succeeded in capitalism. That was always kind of bull shit, now automation is completely blowing it apart.

 

[coerced]

We were always told if you worked hard, developed skills/intelligence, you succeeded in capitalism. That was always kind of bull shit, now automation is completely blowing it apart.

The argument will be 'reskill' but being someone who has studied robotics and computer vision at university, and is going back to uni to study machine learning, these are not a skills that will be easily taught to people.

 

[medusala]

It the next 10-20 years someone will come up with a way to build houses according to architect specifications that is done by an entirely robotic workforce with a few days. The architect will probably still have a job, but the question will be: who is he designing the house for?

Prefab units and houses have been around for a while with pick and mix options. I have no idea but suspect robotics already plays a part in the construction in the factory?

 

[medusala]

It is a very valid question to ask how a capitalist system, that relies on increasing amounts of customers but decreasing wages, will deal with automation. A basic income is a potential solution.

Again a solution (not a good solution I might add) is simple and has already been implemented. Australia has done it, the US has done it, the UK has done it. It benefits big business and is detrimental to those on lower incomes.

The EU referendum is all about that question ie those who benefit from the influx cheap labour vs those who suffer from the import of it.

 

[The Edukator]

What industry do you work in?

Construction and no I dont even earn that much.. yet.

We were always told if you worked hard, developed skills/intelligence, you succeeded in capitalism. That was always kind of bull shit, now automation is completely blowing it apart.

laughable. Just yesterday my partner got a promotion at her 'Big 4' firm because she puts in the extra hours, presents more professionally and has more experience/knowledge/skills than her peers despite being the same age.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

laughable. Just yesterday my partner got a promotion at her 'Big 4' firm because she puts in the extra hours, presents more professionally and has more experience/knowledge/skills than her peers despite being the same age.

Cool. And when her job gets automated/sent off shore, does that means she has stopped working hard or become less skilled?