A different approach to our forward structure

[SellarStardom]

Our forward line has been average all year and against the Eagles it was downright terrible. Certainly form hasn't helped, but the structure just isn't right. Have been thinking it through and believe there are a few changes that can help.

Lynch to the wing - he plays as a wingman and we refuse to position him on the wing. Unlike Seeds, Atkins and Mackay, Lynch can actually run the lines and mark the ball. It puts a lot more pressure on him and the other outside wingers and improves our overall outside and lack of forward flexibility.

Tex at HF - deep forward doesn't work for the Texan, he looks best when he is leading from 40-50m out up to the wings. He is not a contested mark and is far more dangerous delivering into the forward 50.

FOG to FF - by moving Lynch to the wing and TEX to HF it allows us to bring FOG and still only play 3 talls. He should start at around 30m out allowing him to lead up to the 50.

Berg/Jenkins in forward pocket - the third tall in the mix and starts closer to goal. Time is right to now bring JJ back as Berg has definitely hit a wall.

Betts with Murphy/Stengle the two smalls - my preference is to now partner Betts with Stengle given we need goals along with forward pressure.

Hugh for the Final position - would ideally be McAdam given his marking ability, speed and pressure but he's not there yet for me. Hugh gives pressure and unique marking ability. Davis is also providing plenty of pressure and Poholke has been shown to be handy up forward.

Time for some changes.

 

[Houston]

We could drop Walker and bring in one of the top up SANFL players and still come out on top.

 

[SellarStardom]

TEX is certainly on shaky grounds and on drop status. FOG with JJ, Davis and Lynch (on a wing) as a forward combo would certainly provide a different dynamic along with Betts and Stengle.

But one step at a time for this club.

 

[Coopers]

I think walker looks best at FF.

He's too slow to lead effectively away from a defender outside of the forward 50 and we can't kick for shit anyway, so trying to use him as a link player at half forward is basically a turnover waiting to happen. He will be spoiled and not do anything with it on the ground. At least 1 on 1 dropping it on his head he is still big and strong. His only good games this year have happened when he was quite deep right after Jenkins was dropped.

Berg was also no good last night. Jenkins is no good. So if we are hugely desperate for Fog, then flip a coin, drop one of them, play the winner out of the square and hope Fog can do the hardest position on the field as a 20 year old, at CHF.

Seems like a sensible plan.

 

[John Who]

Murphy is a good forward defender, but he hasn't been doing his job when goals are there for the taking. Milera had more composure than him when kicking for goals and could do the defensive stuff just as well.

I've mentioned this last year, that since we've lost Cameron, it's worthwhile to try Milera up forward. He actually started with us as a forward, and his defensive action and tackling has gone up a notch, and he didn't look at all out of place in last night's game, kicking the 3 goals.

Berg needs a rest, with poor games 2 weeks in a row now. JJ should come back in as a direct swap.
If Tex stuffs it up like last night, Fog should then come in.
Stengle should definitely be tried this year, and I'd swap him for Murphy. Perhaps Ned can be given a go soon to see how composed he is kicking for goals. Up forward, we want manic pressure, but I would also like those guys to be composed and not to forget to kick the goals!

 

[jackster83]

Watching highlights from 2012-2016 to compare Tex now to at his peak.

The one thing that stands out (in general) is how open our attacking 50 was (and the opposition's for that matter).

Unfortunately thanks to Richmond, the game has changed and it's all about congestion and legspeed. Like that time yesterday when Tex had absolutely no one to kick to from the centre square so he just booted it forward and hoped Knight would win the footrace - sadly it's clear that Knight has lost whatever pace he once had.

A player like Tom Atkins or Liam Baker wouldn't even be on an AFL list back in 2012. Now they are all the rage.

Surely it's time to fast-track McHenry into the side. He seems more naturally aggressive than guys like Jones and Gooch and at the very least will apply manic pressure.

 

[Golumless]

Murphy is a good forward defender, but he hasn't been doing his job when goals are there for the taking. Milera had more composure than him when kicking for goals and could do the defensive stuff just as well.

I've mentioned this last year, that since we've lost Cameron, it's worthwhile to try Milera up forward. He actually started with us as a forward, and his defensive action and tackling has gone up a notch, and he didn't look at all out of place in last night's game, kicking the 3 goals.

Berg needs a rest, with poor games 2 weeks in a row now. JJ should come back in as a direct swap.
If Tex stuffs it up like last night, Fog should then come in.
Stengle should definitely be tried this year, and I'd swap him for Murphy. Perhaps Ned can be given a go soon to see how composed he is kicking for goals. Up forward, we want manic pressure, but I would also like those guys to be composed and not to forget to kick the goals!

So let me get this straight, you want to use one of our best outside midfielders, and not only that, but also the classiest midfielder we have, and use him as a small forward?

That's a bold strategy cotton, lets see if this one plays out

 

[SellarStardom]

Milera needs to play HB or centre

Stengle should come in for kicking goals and a swap of Murphy for McHenry wouldn't be bad.

If Tex is going to be FF, then have JJ/Berg at CHF and FOG out of HFF, with Lynch up at the wing

 

[mattymac]

CHF is Walker's natural position.

It's his best goal kicking range and also has the field kick to set up our other forwards. Plus he's not much chop in a hot spot marking contest.

Just needs to put all the nonsense away and get back to the basics. Probably could do with a spell in the twos to re-focus on what those basics are.

 

[Murray2503]

Whatever Hart is doing isn't working. No surprises there. Out: Knight, Murphy, Walker for starters.
Would go:
Lynch Fogarty/Jenkins Mchenry
Betts/Stengle Greenwood Mcadam/Jenkins

Lynch your permanent link up.

I would play Fogarty CHF. The guy knows how to take a mark or at least bring the ball to ground. Time to see what we have got. At least when the ball hits the ground he is a 50% upgrade on Tex.

Betts. Still can do the highlight but fast becoming the only thing. Give Stengle a shot. A natural footballer that moves well. Has natural instincts for goal
Greenwood. Who is likely our best contested mark? Greenwood. When MCrouch is fit Greenwood up forward.
Jenkins. If Fog not cutting it play Jenkins CHF. Give him time to get back his form of last year. Tell him to put in 100% or may be gone end of year.
If Fog is doing well Jenkins could play forward pocket.
Mcadam. If Jenkins out we could play Mcadam forward pocket. Maybe not ready but I like this guys skill and pace. Get games into him and will likely repay the faith.
Ned. This guy is pressure personified. A mini Sloane that goes all day. Will help to lock it in and has pretty good skills.
Another option as many suggesting is to move Lynch to wing. Fog to Half forward. Jenkins to CHF.
Time to start winning games.

 

[John Who]

So let me get this straight, you want to use one of our best outside midfielders, and not only that, but also the classiest midfielder we have, and use him as a small forward?

That's a bold strategy cotton, lets see if this one plays out

Milera can be played as a swingman. Stints of forward/back/midfield depending on situation.

First game back after a lengthy lay-off, and kicking 3 goals (technically 4 but 1 being disallowed by dubious free against Tex). Not only that, he looked better than all the other small forwards against the Eagles. It’s now not that hard to see he has potential up forward.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Great post

Agree with the OP's suggestions 100%

Feel as well that Ben Hart hasn't been strong enough demanding genuine forward line players. Been happy to fill up with whatever mids are unlucky enough to get squeezed out of the midfield rotations.

Clubs like Hawthorn in their prime and Collingwood now showing the benefit of having a varied, dangerous forward half where you have to worry about each player.

 

[Geoffa32]

Our forward line has been average all year and against the Eagles it was downright terrible. Certainly form hasn't helped, but the structure just isn't right. Have been thinking it through and believe there are a few changes that can help.

Lynch to the wing - he plays as a wingman and we refuse to position him on the wing. Unlike Seeds, Atkins and Mackay, Lynch can actually run the lines and mark the ball. It puts a lot more pressure on him and the other outside wingers and improves our overall outside and lack of forward flexibility.

Tex at HF - deep forward doesn't work for the Texan, he looks best when he is leading from 40-50m out up to the wings. He is not a contested mark and is far more dangerous delivering into the forward 50.

FOG to FF - by moving Lynch to the wing and TEX to HF it allows us to bring FOG and still only play 3 talls. He should start at around 30m out allowing him to lead up to the 50.

Berg/Jenkins in forward pocket - the third tall in the mix and starts closer to goal. Time is right to now bring JJ back as Berg has definitely hit a wall.

Betts with Murphy/Stengle the two smalls - my preference is to now partner Betts with Stengle given we need goals along with forward pressure.

Hugh for the Final position - would ideally be McAdam given his marking ability, speed and pressure but he's not there yet for me. Hugh gives pressure and unique marking ability. Davis is also providing plenty of pressure and Poholke has been shown to be handy up forward.

Time for some changes.

This is basically what we had in 2017 with McGovern as an extra tall forward.

It was a well balanced structure and I don't fully understand why we have not maintained it.

I guess we are going with an extra.mid in CEY. Allowing Greenwood to play up forward more. Although against the the Eagles Greenwood was barely up forward as MCrouch is out.



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[Mike Smyth]

Whatever Hart decides to do with the forward line this week we absolutely cannot play JJ and Tex in the same forward line. It's one or the other. Let's not keep regurgitating previously failed ideas.

 

[Golumless]

Milera can be played as a swingman. Stints of forward/back/midfield depending on situation.

First game back after a lengthy lay-off, and kicking 3 goals (technically 4 but 1 being disallowed by dubious free against Tex). Not only that, he looked better than all the other small forwards against the Eagles. It’s now not that hard to see he has potential up forward.

It's not hard to see the potential, sure, but is there value in it considering what Milera is capable of? Most likely no, outside of just a random hail Mary type shot. It's like McLeod, sure he'd have been a more then capable small forward, but the stuff you lose by playing him there makes it not worth the time and effort to do so.

We want Milera racking up possessions, and using that class in the midfield, and half back/loose when he needs a breather. He's not some hack who should be used to stopper holes in the lineup.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

We don't have a forward who takes contested marks.

That is the problem. All you guys are doing is talking about shuffling chairs on the titanic.

 

[Golumless]

This is basically what we had in 2017 with McGovern as an extra tall forward.

It was a well balanced structure and I don't fully understand why we have not maintained it.

I guess we are going with an extra.mid in CEY. Allowing Greenwood to play up forward more. Although against the the Eagles Greenwood was barely up forward as MCrouch is out.



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That structure was the exact opposite of well balanced. It only worked to a good level when we had McGovern. Lose him and we'd drop dramatically performance wise, to the point we were only capable of beating up the dregs of the league (and yes, it does say something about how pitiful Geelong were in that PF)

It was jury rigged by sticky tape, and we'd lost the sticky tape.

 

[marty36]

So let me get this straight, you want to use one of our best outside midfielders, and not only that, but also the classiest midfielder we have, and use him as a small forward?

That's a bold strategy cotton, lets see if this one plays out

I thought Sloane and Crouch x 2 were the classiest mids we had

Or are you talking potentially that may or may not occur

 

[marty36]

We don't have a forward who takes contested marks.

That is the problem. All you guys are doing is talking about shuffling chairs on the titanic.

KPFs

EH, JJ, Tex Fog that's it,

Who is in form NONE OF THEM

Needs some guys to find some form

 

[marty36]

That structure was the exact opposite of well balanced. It only worked to a good level when we had McGovern. Lose him and we'd drop dramatically performance wise, to the point we were only capable of beating up the dregs of the league (and yes, it does say something about how pitiful Geelong were in that PF)

It was jury rigged by sticky tape, and we'd lost the sticky tape.

Gov only ever played half a season

 

[Golumless]

I thought Sloane and Crouch x 2 were the classiest mids we had

Or are you talking potentially that may or may not occur

Your mistaking class for best. Matt Crouch has practically none and is quite comfortably an A grade mid.

Milera is the type of player who is capable of things most dream of (and certainly everyone bar Atkins on our list wouldn't have a hope of doing). Brad Crouch may have got there but it looks like years of injuries have stopped that dead unfortunately.

 

[marty36]

Your mistaking class for best. Matt Crouch has practically none and is quite comfortably an A grade mid.

Milera is the type of player who is capable of things most dream of (and certainly everyone bar Atkins on our list wouldn't have a hope of doing). Brad Crouch may have got there but it looks like years of injuries have stopped that dead unfortunately.

Yes he is but there have been plenty of players that showed tremendous promise , scattered through the AFL like that but never delivered on a consistent level

Did we have trent hentschel or remember Mat Kluzeks first game (kicked 5) James sellars pre season performance, that's just us

Milera is learning, as mcleod did, but it took a while to get macca into the mid, even then he wasn't a prolific ball winner just had a great ability to get free like Michael long or chris Judd

 

[SellarStardom]

This is basically what we had in 2017 with McGovern as an extra tall forward.

It was a well balanced structure and I don't fully understand why we have not maintained it.

I guess we are going with an extra.mid in CEY. Allowing Greenwood to play up forward more. Although against the the Eagles Greenwood was barely up forward as MCrouch is out.



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Greenwood must play forward, he is the only aerial threat right now. If we need more grunt in the middle, put Wilson in there

 

[Geoffa32]

Greenwood must play forward, he is the only aerial threat right now. If we need more grunt in the middle, put Wilson in there

Is Croch back this week?

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[CrowBloke]

1) Whatever Hart is doing isn't working.
2) I would play Fogarty CHF. The guy knows how to take a mark or at least bring the ball to ground. Time to see what we have got. At least when the ball hits the ground he is a 50% upgrade on Tex.
3) Ned. This guy is pressure personified. A mini Sloane that goes all day. Will help to lock it in and has pretty good skills.

1) This! Pyke needs to have a serious one-on-one, totally open meeting with Hart and tell him what structures and personnel PYKE wants up there. How about a "horses for courses" approach, which includes JJ, Stengle and McAdam, then selecting tall or small (or a mix) depending on who we are playing and likely conditions?
Our opposition and conditions change every week --- wouldn't it be pragmatic not to play the same forwards regardless?
2) Is Fog underdone, did he have an interrupted pre-season, is he out of form and WHY are they playing him as a back in the SANFL? He looked a natural CHF when he played --- can mark, can crash a pack, has natural mongrel, can kick a goal.
3) If your description is right, he should be in the Senior side after 2 bad losses. 2 wins would probably keep him out, but changes are need badly, now.