A few questions about this great game....

[Ogopogo]

Hello folks, a few of you may remember me from last season - the newbie Suns fan from Canada asking a lot of newbie-type questions. Last year, I asked many of them in the Introductions board but, now that I have been here nearly a full year, it doesn't really seem right putting my latest questions there.

If some of you could help me out with my latest list of questions, I would greatly appreciate it!

1. I love the level of support teams get in WA and SA - the Eagles v Bulldogs game at Patersons Stadium was packed. Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

2. Why are the Bulldogs consistently a poor team. I have watched some videos about how great teams of the past were but, I never see any sustained success for the Bulldogs. Why have they been constantly near the bottom? Not spending $ on players? Bad management? Poor drafting?

3. Could Tasmania really support a team? I watched some of the Hawthorn v Brisbane game and saw a lot of empty seats. The reigning Premiers were in town and the place couldn't sell out. Could Launceston support an AFL club? Can Darwin support a club? Is 18 clubs the maximium that can be supported in Australia?

Thanks for your insight everyone.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I'll answer the first question.

Basically, Queensland and NSW are Rugby heartlands.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The Bulldogs are historically a smaller club who haven't consistently had the resources to compete. They have less support, entering the league 30 years after it formed could have contributed to that.

Since the introduction of equalisation measures they've been quite competitive and played finals many times. Unfortuantely just haven't yet cracked it for a grand final, been very close in recent years.

As a smaller club you can probably compare them to North Melbourne, though North have taken advantage of their stronger eras and won 4 flags (2 each in the 70s and 90s).

 

[Mr_McBoogerBalls]

1. I love the level of support teams get in WA and SA - the Eagles v Bulldogs game at Patersons Stadium was packed. Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

Although I'm from VIC, I dare say that the AFL presence isn't as prominent in NSW and QLD due to the strong presence of Rugby.

2. Why are the Bulldogs consistently a poor team. I have watched some videos about how great teams of the past were but, I never see any sustained success for the Bulldogs. Why have they been constantly near the bottom? Not spending $ on players? Bad management? Poor drafting?

lol - if we go back about 5 - 7 years, they were actually playing finals and were a tough team to beat. They've got a new head coach on board who shows promise and in his first year as coach, the club looked to be playing some promising ball, so they will be an interesting team to watch over the next few years.

3. Could Tasmania really support a team? I watched some of the Hawthorn v Brisbane game and saw a lot of empty seats. The reigning Premiers were in town and the place couldn't sell out. Could Launceston support an AFL club? Can Darwin support a club? Is 18 clubs the maximium that can be supported in Australia?

Can't say I know enough on this topic to add anything of real essence. All I can say is, a lot of blokes I've met from Tassie are top quality and enjoy their footy, it seems unfair that they don't get their own team. I reckon someone else here will have a better understanding re financial affordability.

Cheers.

 

[DangerSloane]

Q2 is wrong.
Through the late 90s the bulldogs were a force, and probably should've won a flag or two. They lost two straight preliminary finals against the underdog crows.
Then again in the mid-late 2000s they had anther run at it and a couple more prelim finals.
So all in all, theyve been up there but a) havent been able to break through and b) havent been able to sustain it for a number of years.
I guess you'd say its similar to the saints...they had a couple of good sustained periods of quality, but just couldnt crack the premiership.

 

[WinmarToLockett]

Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

No one cares about Rugby in Victoria by the way.

2. Why are the Bulldogs consistently a poor team. I have watched some videos about how great teams of the past were but, I never see any sustained success for the Bulldogs.

The Bulldogs are from Footscray and that was a poor area. Lots of unemployment and bogans and drugs and alcoholics. Still a little bit of that but it's quite close to the city and parts of it are a lot less stabby now. But still. Salary caps & the national draft are relatively new equalisation measures. Prior to that, wealthy clubs did well. That's not the Bulldogs now or ever.

Could Tasmania really support a team? I watched some of the Hawthorn v Brisbane game and saw a lot of empty seats. The reigning Premiers were in town and the place couldn't sell out.

Tasmania can't even support itself. 10% of the population can't even read or write, probably more. There's serious unemployment issues there. The AFL would need to prop the club up indefintiely.

 

[Underdog]

Could Tasmania really support a team? I watched some of the Hawthorn v Brisbane game and saw a lot of empty seats. The reigning Premiers were in town and the place couldn't sell out. Could Launceston support an AFL club? Can Darwin support a club? Is 18 clubs the maximium that can be supported in the AFL[

Neither locations have the population to support a side.

In reality, a number of Victorian sides don't have the population and revenue to be supported either. They are maintained due to tradition and for the sake of TV rights. If the AFL ran out of cash, we'd probably see some teams fold soon after.

At this stage, there's no more locations worthwhile to develop. Really we need to wait until Sydney substantially increases interest in the game.

So basically 18 teams are only being supported due to factors other than profitability for those clubs. The optimum number of clubs would probably be around 14-16.

 

[Balony_pony16]

1: Rugby heartland. I grew up in QLD and bairly got exposed to AFL. Once I moved to SA I was forced to watched AFL as NRL gets zero coverage down here
2: not sure. They have had their changes with success but failed at the business end
3: Tassie wont have the membership or corporate support

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Balony_pony16]

Just a minor roadblock, but Tassie also wont be allowed to take advantage of Unkle/son recruitments

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hello folks, a few of you may remember me from last season - the newbie Suns fan from Canada asking a lot of newbie-type questions. Last year, I asked many of them in the Introductions board but, now that I have been here nearly a full year, it doesn't really seem right putting my latest questions there.

If some of you could help me out with my latest list of questions, I would greatly appreciate it!

1. I love the level of support teams get in WA and SA - the Eagles v Bulldogs game at Patersons Stadium was packed. Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?.

As others have said the rugby codes (league and union) have a stranglehold on the eastern seaboard whilst Australian Rules took off along the southern seaboard. Not exactly sure of why...its just the way it evolved.....but no doubt its got a bit to do with the Gold Rush. Most of the main goldfields were in Victoria so I guess in their downtime miners from many different countries they started playing some "mixed rules" games as some sort of compromise considering they all played different sports back home. All subject to conjecture though.

 

[Engimal]

1. I love the level of support teams get in WA and SA - the Eagles v Bulldogs game at Patersons Stadium was packed. Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

NSW and QLD are rugby heartland. Rugby has always been the dominant code there and that's why the AFL are putting teams like Sydney, GWS & Gold Coast in these areas to try and expand Australian football into these areas.

2. Why are the Bulldogs consistently a poor team. I have watched some videos about how great teams of the past were but, I never see any sustained success for the Bulldogs. Why have they been constantly near the bottom? Not spending $ on players? Bad management? Poor drafting?

Probably a combination of both. Bulldogs were in the prelims a couple of years ago. In recent times, it's been hard for poor clubs (such as North Melbourne, StKilda & Bulldogs) to do as well. Since 1999, every team who has won a premiership has been in the top 8 teams for football department spending. Poor clubs can't compete as well as the richer clubs. In saying that, St Kilda almost won a premiership 4 years ago.

3. Could Tasmania really support a team? I watched some of the Hawthorn v Brisbane game and saw a lot of empty seats. The reigning Premiers were in town and the place couldn't sell out. Could Launceston support an AFL club? Can Darwin support a club? Is 18 clubs the maximium that can be supported in Australia?

I hope so, as a Tasmanian.
Launceston itself wouldn't support a club. Tasmania would need to have a club, rather than just Launceston. The reason they didn't sell out is because why would Tasmanians (who have been Australian football fans since the early days) want to go watch Hawthorn vs Brisbane? I'm not a Hawthorn supporter nor am I a Brisbane supporter so I didn't go. If Tasmania got a team, the general consensus is that we wouldn't abandon our current teams but rather we would adopt the Tasmanian team as close second team.

 

[SJ]

1. I love the level of support teams get in WA and SA - the Eagles v Bulldogs game at Patersons Stadium was packed. Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

NSW and QLD are rugby heartland. Rugby has always been the dominant code there and that's why the AFL are putting teams like Sydney, GWS & Gold Coast in these areas to try and expand Australian football into these areas.

I am no expert in the area, but comments like that are generalisations and incorrect. Australian football was once a significant presence in New South Wales and Queensland, up until the late 19th and early 20th century. At this point, certain people with influence (people who controlled what sports were played in schools, what sports were played on fields etc.) decided that the 'colonial game' was not for them and that they would play the game/s from the received from the British empire.

Other historians on BigFooty can provide a far better insight here. Mero RogersResults cos789

 

[kranky al]

Just a minor roadblock, but Tassie also wont be allowed to take advantage of Unkle/son recruitments

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Lolroflcopter

 

[Richo83]

mianfei and Ron The Bear too.

If I recall, Queensland's schools (or some other institutions) had a vote whether to choose rugby or aussie rules, and in a decision of something like 5-4 or something, they chose rugby. I remember someone saying this on bigfooty but I can't remember the actual details so it's hard to search.

 

[Mr_McBoogerBalls]

The Bulldogs are from Footscray ... parts of it are a lot less stabby now.

i lol'd

 

[Richo83]

I am no expert in the area, but comments like that are generalisations and incorrect. Australian football was once a significant presence in New South Wales and Queensland, up until the late 19th and early 20th century. At this point, certain people with influence (people who controlled what sports were played in schools, what sports were played on fields etc.) decided that the 'colonial game' was not for them and that they would play the game/s from the received from the British empire.

Other historians on BigFooty can provide a far better insight here. Mero RogersResults cos789

Yeah this, not sure if you were the one who said it but I remember someone talking about this. It's like the US, certain areas trend towards certain sports more. Hockey is not popular in the warmer states, Texas is definitely a football state, St Louis and Boston are mostly baseball etc.

 

[Richo83]

i lol'd

I'm not sure about the impact on footy, but it is, sadly, kinda true. My father used to work at Footscray station in the 70s, hairy stuff.

 

[Engimal]

I am no expert in the area, but comments like that are generalisations and incorrect. Australian football was once a significant presence in New South Wales and Queensland, up until the late 19th and early 20th century. At this point, certain people with influence (people who controlled what sports were played in schools, what sports were played on fields etc.) decided that the 'colonial game' was not for them and that they would play the game/s from the received from the British empire.

Other historians on BigFooty can provide a far better insight here. Mero RogersResults cos789

Whoops, my bad. When Australian football was significant, was it the dominant code?

 

[Richo83]

I am no expert in the area, but comments like that are generalisations and incorrect. Australian football was once a significant presence in New South Wales and Queensland, up until the late 19th and early 20th century. At this point, certain people with influence (people who controlled what sports were played in schools, what sports were played on fields etc.) decided that the 'colonial game' was not for them and that they would play the game/s from the received from the British empire.

Other historians on BigFooty can provide a far better insight here. Mero RogersResults cos789

Why did they reject/downplay soccer then? Because that's England's biggest sporting export.

 

[Xarb]

I am no expert in the area, but comments like that are generalisations and incorrect. Australian football was once a significant presence in New South Wales and Queensland, up until the late 19th and early 20th century. At this point, certain people with influence (people who controlled what sports were played in schools, what sports were played on fields etc.) decided that the 'colonial game' was not for them and that they would play the game/s from the received from the British empire.

I was always told that rugby was more popular in NSW as it had more English immigrants who bought the codes over from England. This also reflects which codes of rugby became popular, with Union being more popular in the rich areas, such as the North Shore, and League becoming more popular in working-class areas just like in England.

The way it was told to me the southern states, particularity Victoria had a higher amount of Irish immigrants hence Aussie Rules, similar to Gaelic football, became the dominant sport.

I don't have any sources and can't remember where I read this so would love more info (even if that theory is totally wrong). I find this stuff fascinating.

 

[cammo78]

2. Why are the Bulldogs consistently a poor team. I have watched some videos about how great teams of the past were but, I never see any sustained success for the Bulldogs. Why have they been constantly near the bottom? Not spending $ on players? Bad management? Poor drafting?.

It's interesting that you chose the Bulldogs here...

St Kilda, when all is said and done, have had a far worse run over the journey than the Bulldogs.

Same number of Premierships - yet 27 wooden spoons (the Dogs have four). So - once every four years or thereabouts, the Saints finish stone motherless last.

 

[Running Dog]

Hello folks, a few of you may remember me from last season - the newbie Suns fan from Canada asking a lot of newbie-type questions. Last year, I asked many of them in the Introductions board but, now that I have been here nearly a full year, it doesn't really seem right putting my latest questions there.

If some of you could help me out with my latest list of questions, I would greatly appreciate it!

1. What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

2. Why are the Bulldogs consistently a poor team?

3. Could Tasmania really support a team?

Thanks for your insight everyone.

G'day Ogopogo
The only thing you need to know is- get off BigFooty, forget about AFL, and help get our Oilers drilling again. 2nd last in the NHL is a breach in the space/time continuum that must be repaired before Armageddon sets in.
Q1. Long story short- prior to Federation, 'Australia' was a bunch of separate colonies, and the rules of the various football codes were still in flux. As these rules were solidifying the colonies were also developing distinct identities. The northern states (Queensland, NSW) gravitated towards rugby, the rest towards AFL (which had been played in all the colonies, and New Zealand, prior to Federation, as 'Victorian rules'). At roughly the same time, rugby in England split into union and league, with league becoming the working man's game. This tied in with the growing labour movement in the new Federation. Not sure exactly how that translated into rugby league becoming established in the northern states, but certainly rugby league ever since has prided itself on its 'working class' origins, whereas AFL derives its appeal from being our indigenous game.
Q2. If only we knew the answer to that one! I blame... the Great Depression. Might as well, that's how I feel. The Dogs have not been a consistently poor team, although the club's financial position has been consistently hand-to-mouth. The team itself has been good at times. Painful subject.
Q3. Tasmania could 'support' a team in the sense that it's a traditional AFL state, with enough fans and grass roots clubs to ensure a stream of good players etc. However, 'support a team' in the fully professional environment of the AFL means developing and sustaining revenue and sponsorship. Tasmania is an economic basket case with the population of Hamilton, Ontario. There is probably no organisation large enough to sponsor a team that isn't linked in some way with a government body, and neither the AFL nor the taxpayer wants another mouth to feed.

 

[smasha]

mianfei and Ron The Bear too.

If I recall, Queensland's schools (or some other institutions) had a vote whether to choose rugby or aussie rules, and in a decision of something like 5-4 or something, they chose rugby. I remember someone saying this on bigfooty but I can't remember the actual details so it's hard to search.

I vaguely remember a Queensland versus VFA match up there which drew a packed house in Queensland.
Can't remember if it was the late 70s or early 80s.

 

[finders]

I'll answer the first question.

Basically, Queensland and NSW are Rugby heartlands.

With NSW its the Melbourne envy at the heart of the reason that Australian Football isnt as strong as in other States Even today NSW people and the media like bashing anything that comes out of Victoria
If you want to confirm this have a look a the League United forum.
Also the VFA and VFL in the early days did a poor job of promoting our code outside of Victoria although intercolonial matches were played against NSW as far back as 1879.

We also had foothold in NZ and South Africa after the Boer war in the early 20th century.
A NZ team even competed at the 1908 Carnival against the Australian states but once again without support the code withered and died after WW1.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Why did they reject/downplay soccer then? Because that's England's biggest sporting export.

Rugby Union being a private school sport would have been more popular in schools than soccer