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A-League A-League Men Round 8 - The Walkout Melbourne Derby

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Wild Bill

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Victory to be stripped of all their points and City to lose half.
 

mcgarnacle

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You said "Where is anyone saying he started it?" I responded that there are numerous Twitter posts implying that by saying "Victory fans storm the pitch after Tom Glover throws a flare at their active area" (including one that giggler99 coincidentally included a couple of posts under mine), which 100% implies that he was responsible, not that he contributed.



Everyone isn't ignoring that. Glover shouldn't have done what he did. If he's sanctioned for it, he should take whatever they give him. Izzo isn't going to be punished, Glover could/should be, so it follows that Izzo did the right thing. But frankly I'm not really surprised by Glover's reaction.

Which club as it currently stands is most likely to be screwed by the grand final being in Sydney? Melbourne City. So the APL has screwed Melbourne City, and City's management has publicly backed the decision by the APL, as distinct from the other Victorian A-League clubs who publicly criticised it. So Glover and other City players are probably pretty pissed about the whole thing as is and are none-too-pleased that they're the collateral damage from the coordinated and agreed protest.

Turns out the people in the stands behind him actually have no interest in leaving and apparently want to take the opportunity to cause trouble. They start lobbing flares as his back is turned and he may or may not have been aware that a cameraman was injured by one of these flares. So he has a brain snap and flings it back in the direction of these morons. I'd speculate that Glover figured these clowns were all bark and no bite, badly misreading that they were going to take the opportunity that these mass protests (and massive overreaction on the whole in my opinion but that's by the by) to escalate things to a dangerous level.

And while I'm speculating, if you feel like indulging me, I'm going to assume that these Victory supporters who were throwing flares, then jumped the fence broke the barriers, destroyed the pitch and goals and assaulted players, the referee, media and security probably didn't go into the game with the most pure of intentions. Forgive me for being dubious that they were there to help the APL see the error of its ways and quietly exit the stadium at 20 minutes until after throwing several flares at defenceless people trying to do their job, they were triggered by one coming back the other way. They went there looking to damage property, assault someone, start a riot. I hope they're ready for the consequences, because I get the sense that these absolute dipsticks are going to get an example made if them.

You're could be right, but I'm not into speculation. I'm into the timeline of events and the facts.

1. A member or members from City active threw several flares at the Melbourne goal and in the direction of the Melbourne goal keeper.
2. The Melbourne goals were damaged.
3. Izzo retrieved the flares from the field and placed them behind goal for security to deal with them.
4. A member or members from Melbourne active threw several flares at the City goal and in the direction of the City goal keeper.
5. A cameraman was allegedly hit by one of the flares.
6. Glover recklessly threw the flares into a crowded area.
7. A portion Melbourne active supporters invaded the pitch, damaged the city goals, approached Glover, one member assaulted Glover with a metal bucket.
8. Melbourne active supporters leave the field at the direction of ground security.

At any moment in a highly charged situation, actions can douse or ignite the environment further.

As an employee of a club in the League, Glover had to be better. He will be punished accordingly by the League for his actions. He amplified the situation. This is fact, not speculation. Up until the moment Glover launched a flare (without even looking at where he was throwing it mind you) into a crowded area, the situation was still under control, just as it was at the City end and their flares. Izzo was responsible. Glover wasn't it. For godsake, in every video on the event, the first gasps from attendees are when Glover's flare hits the crowd. Absolutely moronic.

And City don't deserve any points because their active support smuggled in and threw multiple flares as well. Where's the consideration for Izzo's safety? There appears to be none because his outcome wasn't poor. He managed his outcome effectively!

No points out of this for either club. They either replay behind closed doors, or abandon the match with no points allocated to either team.
 

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tigs2010

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Tempted to put you know who on but think I'll leave that one while still a police matter. Don't want them out looking for old mate :tearsofjoy:
Don't think old mate has it in him to get a snarl going let alone throwing a bucket. Way too placid.
 

Zidane98

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You're could be right, but I'm not into speculation. I'm into the timeline of events and the facts.

1. A member or members from City active threw several flares at the Melbourne goal and in the direction of the Melbourne goal keeper.
2. The Melbourne goals were damaged.
3. Izzo retrieved the flares from the field and placed them behind goal for security to deal with them.
4. A member or members from Melbourne active threw several flares at the City goal and in the direction of the City goal keeper.
5. A cameraman was allegedly hit by one of the flares.
6. Glover recklessly threw the flares into a crowded area.
7. A portion Melbourne active supporters invaded the pitch, damaged the city goals, approached Glover, one member assaulted Glover with a metal bucket.
8. Melbourne active supporters leave the field at the direction of ground security.

At any moment in a highly charged situation, actions can douse or ignite the environment further.

As an employee of a club in the League, Glover had to be better. He will be punished accordingly by the League for his actions. He amplified the situation. This is fact, not speculation. Up until the moment Glover launched a flare (without even looking at where he was throwing it mind you) into a crowded area, the situation was still under control, just as it was at the City end and their flares. Izzo was responsible. Glover wasn't it. For godsake, in every video on the event, the first gasps from attendees are when Glover's flare hits the crowd. Absolutely moronic.

And City don't deserve any points because their active support smuggled in and threw multiple flares as well. Where's the consideration for Izzo's safety? There appears to be none because his outcome wasn't poor. He managed his outcome effectively!

No points out of this for either club. They either replay behind closed doors, or abandon the match with no points allocated to either team.

The background behind all this is unrest caused by the APL making a public announcement that they must surely realised was going to be deeply resented by all supporter bases the week before the Melbourne Derby. Much in the same way the Super League announcement kicked off all sorts of similar action in the UK early last year - the only difference being games were still in lockdown at the time so fans couldn't create issues at games.

A better time to announce the expected deeply unpopular news of Sydney grand finals for 3 years would have been over the New year period. Some common sense has to apply here.
 

giggler99

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The background behind all this is unrest caused by the APL making a public announcement that they must surely realised was going to be deeply resented by all supporter bases the week before the Melbourne Derby. Much in the same way the Super League announcement kicked off all sorts of similar action in the UK early last year - the only difference being games were still in lockdown at the time so fans couldn't create issues at games.

A better time to announce the expected deeply unpopular news of Sydney grand finals for 3 years would have been over the New year period. Some common sense has to apply here.

oh but Danny Townsend could wait to tell us all 'the game changing exciting news!'
 

Blue1980

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People shoulder charged Geelong players at Buddy's 1000 this year, yeah. Geelong players laughed it off but I'd suggest they weren't too keen on the attention they got.

Yes it’s exactly the same
 

MC Extra Dollop

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You're could be right, but I'm not into speculation. I'm into the timeline of events and the facts.

1. A member or members from City active threw several flares at the Melbourne goal and in the direction of the Melbourne goal keeper.
2. The Melbourne goals were damaged.
3. Izzo retrieved the flares from the field and placed them behind goal for security to deal with them.
4. A member or members from Melbourne active threw several flares at the City goal and in the direction of the City goal keeper.
5. A cameraman was allegedly hit by one of the flares.
6. Glover recklessly threw the flares into a crowded area.
7. A portion Melbourne active supporters invaded the pitch, damaged the city goals, approached Glover, one member assaulted Glover with a metal bucket.
8. Melbourne active supporters leave the field at the direction of ground security.

At any moment in a highly charged situation, actions can douse or ignite the environment further.

As an employee of a club in the League, Glover had to be better. He will be punished accordingly by the League for his actions. He amplified the situation. This is fact, not speculation. Up until the moment Glover launched a flare (without even looking at where he was throwing it mind you) into a crowded area, the situation was still under control, just as it was at the City end and their flares. Izzo was responsible. Glover wasn't it. For godsake, in every video on the event, the first gasps from attendees are when Glover's flare hits the crowd. Absolutely moronic.

And City don't deserve any points because their active support smuggled in and threw multiple flares as well. Where's the consideration for Izzo's safety? There appears to be none because his outcome wasn't poor. He managed his outcome effectively!

No points out of this for either club. They either replay behind closed doors, or abandon the match with no points allocated to either team.

So to summarise, only Glover's actions were reckless? And why are you saying the cameraman was only "allegedly" hit. You're minimising everyone else's actions and putting as much mayo as you can on Glover's involvement. What a piece of luck that some of the people who invaded the pitch happened to have a balaclava handy, just in case they found themselves in a situation that required them to act in self defence.

If you think I'm defending City's active supporters, you're barking up the wrong tree. What should come out of this disgraceful incident (where multiple parties have acted disgracefully), it's that each active area is responsible for policing the people in its area. Someone in your active area lights a flare? Help security identify and remove them. If you don't, you're complicit and the active area can stay home for a game or two.

If the A-League ever wants to compete with the BBL and NBL, it has to make its product as family friendly as possible. That goes beyond banning flares: it ought to extend to penalising things like offensive language in chants. You can scoff if you like, but if I'm looking for a summer sports event to take my family to, the A-League is way behind the basketball and cricket. And the irony is I don't really care about the Melbourne teams in the NBL and BBL, but I've been a Melbourne City member since before they were Melbourne City. That says a bit about the hole the league has created for itself by condoning the behaviour by the active groups who want to show that they're just as 'hard' as the dickhead ultras in Europe.
 
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Blue1980

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Also needs to be a conversation about the ultras/active support areas. I might be a bit different there but I don't think they really add anything to the culture of the sport, I think they are a bit lame (I think the same about the Barmy Army, Fanatics, etc). But I get how some would see that differently


Lol if you introduced a nightclub style policy of gender ratios that would sort behaviour out pretty quickly too.

Aside from some isolated things I don’t think barmy army and fanatics haven’t led to any violence, certainly not on the level of what we see from these wannabe ultras/active supporters here in Australia at soccer.

To me it comes across as a combination of lame, toxic and cringeworthy.

I like your last point, could get rather funny. Only allow groups of hot women in.
 

Blue1980

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So how many of the flare throwing thugs responsible for the violence were the same flare throwing thugs leading violence at anti lockdown protests in Melbourne?

I don’t think there would be an insignificant crossover
 

MC Extra Dollop

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Aside from some isolated things I don’t think barmy army and fanatics haven’t led to any violence, certainly not on the level of what we see from these wannabe ultras/active supporters here in Australia at soccer.

To me it comes across as a combination of lame, toxic and cringeworthy.

I like your last point, could get rather funny. Only allow groups of hot women in.

Yeah I'm not sure I'd ever choose to sit with the Fanatics, but I appreciate what they do. People (including me) see them as a bit lame at times, but hey, they're not going to keep families away from events with their offensive behaviour are they?
 

Zidane98

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So to summarise, only Glover's actions were reckless? And why are you saying the cameraman was only "allegedly" hit. You're minimising everyone else's actions and putting as much mayo as you can on Glover's involvement. What a piece of luck that some of the people who invaded the pitch happened to have a balaclava handy, just in case they found themselves in a situation that required them to act in self defence.

If you think I'm defending City's active supporters, you're barking up the wrong tree. What should come out of this disgraceful incident (which multiple parties acting disgracefully), it's that each active area is responsible for policing the people in its area. Someone in your active area lights a flare? Help security identify and remove them. If you don't, you're complicit and the active area can stay home for a game or two.

If the A-League ever wants to compete with the BBL and NBL, it has to make its product as family friendly as possible. That goes beyond banning flares: it ought to extend to penalising things like offensive language in chants. You can scoff if you like, but if I'm looking for a summer sports event to take my family too, the A-League is way behind the basketball and cricket. And the irony is I don't really care about the Melbourne teams in the NBL and BBL, but I've been a Melbourne City member since before they were Melbourne City. That says a bit about the hole the league has created for itself by condoning the behaviour by the active groups who want to show that they're just as 'hard' as the dickhead ultras in Europe.


Cricket crowds have the foulest language of all from my experience. Good luck penalising offensive language - it happens at all sporting events with significant crowds. If you want non offensive crowds tennis & golf are probably ideal for you.

As a whole, active supporter groups are generally well behaved. It's the weeding out of the very few minority troublemakers / dickheads that needs to be improved upon.
 

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SM

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Yes it’s exactly the same

Did I say it was exactly the same? I said there's similar incidents in other codes. Saying it's a football only problem hides the fact that really it's a toxic masculinity issue which can rear up in any code.
 

Sausages

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The Australian is reporting the bin chucker has handed himself in.
 

Blue1980

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Did I say it was exactly the same? I said there's similar incidents in other codes. Saying it's a football only problem hides the fact that really it's a toxic masculinity issue which can rear up in any code.

But only rears it’s head in soccer in Australia.

The difference is there is no equivalent of the “ultras” in other sports like there are for a-league clubs, so you don’t get mob led violence/toxic masculinity on the same level.

Also much lower female percentage of crowd at a league games than AFL or cricket.
 

SM

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But only rears it’s head in soccer in Australia.

The difference is there is no equivalent of the “ultras” in other sports like there are for a-league clubs, so you don’t get mob led violence/toxic masculinity on the same level.

Also much lower female percentage of crowd at a league games than AFL or cricket.

Wrong.
 

Blue1980

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I should preface, on this scale.

Of course bad things have happened at other events, but these are usually just isolated individual incidents, not a group of supposedly passionate yet violent “ultras” showing “passion”.
 

craigos

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You know why Melbourne Victory supposedly have more problems than other teams? It's because we actually have fans turning up to games. Not to throw shade at other clubs but when you have 15 people with cowbells at Macarthur or 20 people at Bendigo watching Western United you're not going to have any real issues.

It's just simple statistics ffs.
 

masai tu

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You're could be right, but I'm not into speculation. I'm into the timeline of events and the facts.

1. A member or members from City active threw several flares at the Melbourne goal and in the direction of the Melbourne goal keeper.
2. The Melbourne goals were damaged.
3. Izzo retrieved the flares from the field and placed them behind goal for security to deal with them.
4. A member or members from Melbourne active threw several flares at the City goal and in the direction of the City goal keeper.
5. A cameraman was allegedly hit by one of the flares.
6. Glover recklessly threw the flares into a crowded area.
7. A portion Melbourne active supporters invaded the pitch, damaged the city goals, approached Glover, one member assaulted Glover with a metal bucket.
8. Melbourne active supporters leave the field at the direction of ground security.

At any moment in a highly charged situation, actions can douse or ignite the environment further.

As an employee of a club in the League, Glover had to be better. He will be punished accordingly by the League for his actions. He amplified the situation. This is fact, not speculation. Up until the moment Glover launched a flare (without even looking at where he was throwing it mind you) into a crowded area, the situation was still under control, just as it was at the City end and their flares. Izzo was responsible. Glover wasn't it. For godsake, in every video on the event, the first gasps from attendees are when Glover's flare hits the crowd. Absolutely moronic.

And City don't deserve any points because their active support smuggled in and threw multiple flares as well. Where's the consideration for Izzo's safety? There appears to be none because his outcome wasn't poor. He managed his outcome effectively!

No points out of this for either club. They either replay behind closed doors, or abandon the match with no points allocated to either team.

Bulldust.

Glover is in the clear, projectiles should NEVER be hurled at players by spectators.

Flares are for emergency situations, they are not play things. There should be zero tolerance for these items at sporting venues.
 

SM

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Bulldust.

Glover is in the clear, projectiles should NEVER be hurled at players by spectators.

Flares are for emergency situations, they are not play things. There should be zero tolerance for these items at sporting venues.

He'll get a suspension, he's not in the clear.
 

masai tu

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He'll get a suspension, he's not in the clear.

Ok, put it this way.

If I was a player and a flare was tossed around my feet, I’d be off to my Players Association on Monday asking the following :-

1. My club has me working in an unsafe work environment.

2. What is my club doing about my ( team ) security ?. Eg. Flares, pitch invasion etc.

3. Sic my lawyer to draw up a claim for damages ( shock tactic !!! ).

I’d do all this, if the League deemed that me lobbing a flare out of my “work area”, is a suspendable offence.

WorkSafe are standing by on the phone, “dangerous working environment” is a term that lawyers love. $$$$$$$$$$$.
 

craigos

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Anyone seen the video of Glover throwing the second flare in to the crowd make the news yet?
 

MC Extra Dollop

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You know why Melbourne Victory supposedly have more problems than other teams? It's because we actually have fans turning up to games. Not to throw shade at other clubs but when you have 15 people with cowbells at Macarthur or 20 people at Bendigo watching Western United you're not going to have any real issues.

It's just simple statistics ffs.

Right, well then case dismissed I suppose.
 
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