Toast A Step In The Right Direction

[Markfs]

Thanks Mark for not viewing my post as cynicism.

There are people that literally hold decolonization as the only sufficient solution to the divide. Zero compromise, 'if you're not one of us, fk off!', if anyone thinks there are not people that hold this view then they're either naive of crayon eating level or deliberately ignorant to the point of sticking fingers in their ears and 'la la la' to drown the inconvenient truth.

And that's the only noise we hear from msm and social media 'indigenous = oppressed, non = oppressor' that's it, no nuance. If you're not indigenous (or non indigenous but must be self loathing) you're bad. No ifs buts or maybes.

The problem I see, it's all about compromise to appease, which is fine, but then some will still not be satisfied with whatever the compromise is. And that's the noise that will continue regardless of what we do.

Abolish any celebration / recognition of anything non indigenous, it is the only way.

well i might agree with some of the appeasing aspects of your post, but not the negative emotions.

Its not much of a day as it is. It offends a part of society that has a legitimate gripe. Hand it over to them to construct something. The only parts that we want to remain is the holiday and probably in summer. You would say that we would lose the "celebrate australia" bit but we've only been doing that for 30 odd years and it's been half-assed fireworks and flag waving. No great loss. The indigenous "mob" (please check wording 76) might make a decent holiday out of it. I see it as a win win.

 

[Markfs]

I have a parable. As I've aged I've cleaned all the crap out of my house. I thought things meant something to me but I realised not so much. I used to have boxes of stuff but it progressively went. Yesterday I swapped a big ol Honda motorcycle for a new mini bike. It was sad to see the old thing go, but I rode off on my new bike and didnt even bother to look back. It had been with me for 20 years but I didnt feel connected to it anymore. It was big. It was hot. It didnt like traffic. When it was it's turn to be turned over and given a ride, I didnt really enjoy it. It didnt fit me anymore. People change. I took the little bike for a ride up the coast road in perth after I took delivery. It was ridiculously slow and underpowered but I enjoyed it. Now I wish I had done it a lot sooner.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I have a parable. As I've aged I've cleaned all the crap out of my house. I thought things meant something to me but I realised not so much. I used to have boxes of stuff but it progressively went. Yesterday I swapped a big ol Honda motorcycle for a new mini bike. It was sad to see the old thing go, but I rode off on my new bike and didnt even bother to look back. It had been with me for 20 years but I didnt feel connected to it anymore. It was big. It was hot. It didnt like traffic. When it was it's turn to be turned over and given a ride, I didnt really enjoy it. It didnt fit me anymore. People change. I took the little bike for a ride up the coast road in perth after I took delivery. It was ridiculously slow and underpowered but I enjoyed it. Now I wish I had done it a lot sooner.

Relationship problems?

 

[Markfs]

Relationship problems?

No it was time the bike and myself went their separate ways. It might find someone new that will ride it on the freeway at great speeds. I will be content with a slower lifestyle.....things and people change grasshopper..

 

[jmac70]

People tend to be less ignorant and apathetic about things that they consider to be important or relevant to themselves.

How to make reconciliation more important and more relevant to the greater population?

Educate the young. Eventually they will take over.

 

[sr36]

I have a parable. As I've aged I've cleaned all the crap out of my house. I thought things meant something to me but I realised not so much. I used to have boxes of stuff but it progressively went. Yesterday I swapped a big ol Honda motorcycle for a new mini bike. It was sad to see the old thing go, but I rode off on my new bike and didnt even bother to look back. It had been with me for 20 years but I didnt feel connected to it anymore. It was big. It was hot. It didnt like traffic. When it was it's turn to be turned over and given a ride, I didnt really enjoy it. It didnt fit me anymore. People change. I took the little bike for a ride up the coast road in perth after I took delivery. It was ridiculously slow and underpowered but I enjoyed it. Now I wish I had done it a lot sooner.

Is getting old really a parable?

 

[jmac70]

I dont disagree with you. However, we need to show that we're willing to compromise... and the day means so little to us, and more to them.

And well done with your zulu work...jmac has worked with alcoholics in the schools..

I do hundreds of unpaid hours every year. Does that count?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Educate the young. Eventually they will take over.

Indeed!

 

[Markfs]

I do hundreds of unpaid hours every year. Does that count?

with zulus?

 

[Markfs]

Is getting old really a parable?

i've been on the christian thread a bit too much. I was thinking of starting my own religion....israel in 4BC had no mass communication

 

[jmac70]

with zulus?

Alas no, can’t claim to have the same credentials as Kap.

 

[Markfs]

Alas no, can’t claim to have the same credentials as Kap.

no shame. i've looked all morning but i cant find one zulu in fremantle to help

 

[jmac70]

no shame. i've looked all morning but i cant find one zulu in fremantle to help

Is it wrong that I can’t stop seeing an image of Michael Cain?

 

[Markfs]

Is it wrong that I can’t stop seeing an image of Michael Cain?

no i saw that movie quite a few times. I think it was the only one where he dropped his cockney accent...."ok lads, raise your weapons but dont shoot until you see the whites of their eyes"...

i was partial to alfie too.... "this one is a right nice piece of work"

 

[Carringbush2010]

well i might agree with some of the appeasing aspects of your post, but not the negative emotions.

Its not much of a day as it is. It offends a part of society that has a legitimate gripe. Hand it over to them to construct something. The only parts that we want to remain is the holiday and probably in summer. You would say that we would lose the "celebrate australia" bit but we've only been doing that for 30 odd years and it's been half-assed fireworks and flag waving. No great loss. The indigenous "mob" (please check wording 76) might make a decent holiday out of it. I see it as a win win.

Oh I'm not disagreeing, what I'm trying to point out, whatever compromise non indigenous comes up with it will not suffice for some. It's not a 'negative' it's a reality, people literally hold these views.

I don't care about 'losing celebrating australia', what I want is the division to stop, stop making it about race, stop the 'woe is me' and my point is it will NEVER stop. Some will just refuse to be happy unless we have a full scale decolonization.

That might be a minuscule amount of people that will never be satisfied and continue the 'woe is me' and guess what? We'll STILL be arguing about it.

 

[Markfs]

Oh I'm not disagreeing, what I'm trying to point out, whatever compromise non indigenous comes up with it will not suffice for some. It's not a 'negative' it's a reality, people literally hold these views.

I don't care about 'losing celebrating australia', what I want is the division to stop, stop making it about race, stop the 'woe is me' and my point is it will NEVER stop. Some will just refuse to be happy unless we have a full scale decolonization.

That might be a minuscule amount of people that will never be satisfied and continue the 'woe is me' and guess what? We'll STILL be arguing about it.

I think I agree that there are a minority of people who are vocal on it and a large percentage of people who just get on with it. However, if you believe surveys, the vocal minority (and we might be some of those) are just the tip of the iceberg and there are millions of australians who dont want to change a fairly meaningless public holiday and I suspect that there are probably a lot of "silent" indigenous people who agree with their vocal minority.

Its been a week post invasion day and we really need to pack up the flags and deckchairs and put it all away until next year so we can do this all over again....probably bigger and better

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think I agree that there are a minority of people who are vocal on it and a large percentage of people who just get on with it. However, if you believe surveys, the vocal minority (and we might be some of those) are just the tip of the iceberg and there are millions of australians who dont want to change a fairly meaningless public holiday and I suspect that there are probably a lot of "silent" indigenous people who agree with their vocal minority.

Its been a week post invasion day and we really need to pack up the flags and deckchairs and put it all away until next year so we can do this all over again....probably bigger and better

Well wouldn't avoiding divisive arguments next year be better?

Abolish the day, abolish any non indigenous celebration / recognition. It's the only way.

 

[Markfs]

Well wouldn't avoiding divisive arguments next year be better?

Abolish the day, abolish any non indigenous celebration / recognition. It's the only way.

well we need a new public holiday and we can kill two birds with one stone, but we need to ask the coalition of peaks Home - Coalition of Peaks to come up with a new date and also the reason for that date.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Oh I'm not disagreeing, what I'm trying to point out, whatever compromise non indigenous comes up with it will not suffice for some. It's not a 'negative' it's a reality, people literally hold these views.

I don't care about 'losing celebrating australia', what I want is the division to stop, stop making it about race, stop the 'woe is me' and my point is it will NEVER stop. Some will just refuse to be happy unless we have a full scale decolonization.

That might be a minuscule amount of people that will never be satisfied and continue the 'woe is me' and guess what? We'll STILL be arguing about it.

There are usually people with extreme views in any argument. The argument doesn’t necessarily need to be defined by those people.

Often those people with extreme views of politics are people who are being disadvantaged or alienated in some way. For the indigenous population, the government is measuring that through the ‘closing the gap’ metrics. (Life expectancy, incarceration rates, etc). Not sure how well it’s progressing, but I guess measuring something and defining ‘success’ is a good start.

As a white fella, if somebody reckons that the best thing I can do for reconciliation is to decolonise myself …

… that doesn’t mean that I need to take a similarly extreme position.

 

[Carringbush2010]

well we need a new public holiday and we can kill two birds with one stone, but we need to ask the coalition of peaks Home - Coalition of Peaks to come up with a new date and also the reason for that date.

Coalition of peaks?

 

[Carringbush2010]

There are usually people with extreme views in any argument. The argument doesn’t necessarily need to be defined by those people.

Often those people with extreme views of politics are people who are being disadvantaged or alienated in some way. For the indigenous population, the government is measuring that through the ‘closing the gap’ metrics. (Life expectancy, incarceration rates, etc). Not sure how well it’s progressing, but I guess measuring something and defining ‘success’ is a good start.

As a white fella, if somebody reckons that the best thing I can do for reconciliation is to decolonise myself …

… that doesn’t mean that I need to take a similarly extreme position.

Of course decolonization is not viable, everything else in your post is of course obvious. So I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Markfs]

Coalition of peaks?

go to the link and learn...

 

[Carringbush2010]

go to the link and learn...

Yep I agree, let this group get whatever they demand and hopefully the division stops. I'm not confident though.

 

[Markfs]

Yep I agree, let this group get whatever they demand and hopefully the division stops. I'm not confident though.

well look at the struggle to get the PM to say sorry. It has obviously stopped that issue. Whether it has done long term good is for experts to say. I think there are strong parallels in this matter. Plus it has the added bonus of giving indigenous people the ability to set up their own public holiday ....either to reflect on the past or to promote the future.

I see it as a win win. To create a public holiday with relevance....unless queen's birthday and labour day and the religious days.

 

[Carringbush2010]

well look at the struggle to get the PM to say sorry. It has obviously stopped that issue. Whether it has done long term good is for experts to say. I think there are strong parallels in this matter. Plus it has the added bonus of giving indigenous people the ability to set up their own public holiday ....either to reflect on the past or to promote the future.

I see it as a win win. To create a public holiday with relevance....unless queen's birthday and labour day and the religious days.

The pm taking eons to say sorry is not reflective of broader societies sentiment. It's clear broader society is empathetic towards the indigenous.

The problem is this impossible goal of trying to appease those that will not be appeased no matter what.

Even if we abolish queens birthday, anzac day, anything that is reflective of colonization, some will still not be satisfied. But we'll still, as a society try to achieve the impossible because everyone needs to be satisfied, which is impossible.

There is no win win, some will not be satisfied regardless.