A very important game...

[Kramer1]

I dont start a lot of threads but tonight has distilled a few thoughts for me and confirmed a few others. I feel it is the sort of game that will help the footy dept make decisions on players they have been waivering on.

Midfield defense. Collectively Judd Robinson and McLean apply very little defensive pressure which really dictates that we play honest triers like Curnow and Cachia in stopping roles, and in no way do I mean to discredit the effort of those two. Nevertheless this is not a sustainable model. Robinson is a liability on 2013 form. Poor disposal, poor decisions, demands the ball in stupid positions and really not capable of sticking to a defensive role. I would certainly shop him in the hope that a Melbourne or GWS see value in his one positive trait...McLean too if I thought someone would go for him.

Big bodied mids. Our defensive pressure was actually good tonight, but the ability of the big Freo mids to free arms and get that one extra handball was telling. We need some genuine rigs in the middle because we were simply bullied around the contests.

Small forwards. Our trio were nothing short of cowardly tonight both in their unwillingness to put their heads over the ball and their unwillingness to run to create options. Appaling. I can say without emotion that I hope two go at years end.

Happy to prod the elephant in the room. We chose the wrong captain at the beginning of the year. Injured or not Murphy has nothing like the temperament to be captain. I wouldnt follow him into battle. I wouldnt follow him to the shops. Kade Simpson is my captain...dont much care what the club has to say about it.

None of this is unfixable. Cant wait for Mick to make some hard calls at years end.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We have hardly any complete footballers so we bring in limited footballers to make up for the stuff that others don't have, as you suggested. I'd put Henderson and Walker as close to complete (despite the odd bad performance) and Tuohy coming on strong if he can win a little more ball. Skill, effort, toughness and running both ways. Simpson is also in this group but is largely one sided.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

I dont start a lot of threads but tonight has distilled a few thoughts for me and confirmed a few others. I feel it is the sort of game that will help the footy dept make decisions on players they have been waivering on

What makes you believe this?

Rounds 11 - 15 told us everything we needed to know about our so called best team, the most obvious of which is that we are not capable of matching the top teams. Now go and compare our Round 15 team with the team tonight, and once you notice it is all but the same team, the result tonight should seem much less of a shock.

Following that 4 week block, no players were dropped to make them earn it, and only one player was promoted. That is quite simply pathetic.

We lament the soft efforts from our players when the pressure is on, yet the truth is we have instilled this culture into the playing group through years of tolerating such efforts and doing nothing about it.

An example of this is consistently rushing players back into the side and then being content for them to spend weeks in the seniors regaining form. Betts, Murphy and Carrazzo are all examples this year - why weren't any of them made to earn it, why weren't any of them dropped when it was clear we made a mistake rushing them into the seniors.

Look at our one example of 'punishing' a player - what Yarran did in the Essendon game was inexcusable, yet after an ok performance in the reserves (certainly nothing exceptional), he was given the week off before coming straight back in. Again, just pathetic.

If your mediocre efforts are tolerated, if you are allowed to coast, if you are allowed to believe you have a free ticket to the seniors irrespective of performance, if you are not made to earn it through the reserves, week after week, year after year, then flat track bullies and a middle of the road team is exactly what you are endorsing, and that is exactly what we are now left with.

We criticise the players, but it is our own fault for not instilling the will, desire, and commitment required to go all the way.

I wish it was a simple fix, and many are hoping the off-season to be our savior, but the reality is until we seriously change this culture of accepting mediocrity, any talent brought into the club will be as wasted with us as it is with Melbourne.

 

[Kramer1]

Difference for me being PPG that this nearing the end of a year with MM and played near a finals like intensity. dont agree with everything MM is doing but I dont think acceptance of poor efforts will be feature going forward.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

from last nights team this is what we have to work with;

Simpson Jamison
Tuohy Walker
Judd Gibbs
Armfield Watson
Henderson Garlett
Kreuzer Carazzo ; Murphy

Across every line we are one quality player short

Apologise to Scotland who is probably in his last year

 

[CrippsonBlue]

I dont think acceptance of poor efforts will be feature going forward

Hope not Kramer, but hard to have faith when we've kept the status quo all year despite the many alarm bells. Too often has someone like White been made the scapegoat when our issues lay with the core playing group.

 

[zeeCFC]

Soo many of our stars just aren't delivering. The midfield looks putrid at the moment.

Murphy, Carrazzo, Betts, Yarran are having career worst years. Finals or not, I'm already in 2014 mode.

Some of the fringe players have been a pleasure to watch this year though, Tuohy, Watson, Curnow etc

 

[JustaBattler]

Some teams are just better right now - Fremantle have had a very talented list for years - but last night Fyfe/Hill and dare I say it Ballantyne were the difference. Carlton is 4-5 players short of contending - much like most middling Clubs. Total list management and development have been a Fail grading for Carlton - supporters have been fed on BS regarding realistic expectations - have to be patient for a few years whilst the whole Club catches up.

I think this is the beginning of proper or better management - regular finals appearances combined with better drafting and development will see things improve over time.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Some teams are just better right now - Fremantle have had a very talented list for years - but last night Fyfe/Hill and dare I say it Ballantyne were the difference. Carlton is 4-5 players short of contending - much like most middling Clubs. Total list management and development have been a Fail grading for Carlton - supporters have been fed on BS regarding realistic expectations - have to be patient for a few years whilst the whole Club catches up.

I think this is the beginning of proper or better management - regular finals appearances combined with better drafting and development will see things improve over time.

agree, our drafting and development has been terrible for years... bad drafting to begin with and then keeping them on the list for years when it was obvious they were not good enough (that was Ratten's biggest mistake). examples Bower, Russell, Hampson, Lucas...............

 

[JustaBattler]

agree, our drafting and development has been terrible for years... bad drafting to begin with and then keeping them on the list for years when it was obvious they were not good enough (that was Ratten's biggest mistake). examples Bower, Russell, Hampson, Lucas...............

Disagree regarding Lucas - he is getting better.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Disagree regarding Lucas - he is getting better.

i dont see it, struggles with strength in close (and tackling) and does not have the elite skills to be an outside running player

 

[JustaBattler]

i dont see it, struggles with strength in close (and tackling) and does not have the elite skills to be an outside running player

His running with ball in hand is very good, his field kicking or execution ranges from excellent to horrible he'll get better with experience and confidence. His tackling right now is shit - but Carlton tackling as a whole is shitfull. Last night I got sick of watching easy tackles missed - Rowe is a serial offender I have noticed - very disappointing. Watch the game last night at one stage Lucas ran himself into and out of trouble through five players and set up a nice forward entry and goal I think.

Give him time - he has earned it.

 

[T2B_]

Yeah Lucas will be fine.

He has deficiencies.. but I'd argue his weaknesses are something we actually see across our whole (or most of our) team, i.e shit tackling, sometimes wonky disposal.

But I believe he has the class and talent to overcome them, if we can get our development up to scratch. There's certainly a lot to work with IMO.

 

[Cringle]

Nothing wrong with Lucas. He's been recovering from poor managing over the years, from being in the team to out... Losing confidence etc. However, I always liked him playing more Half Forward. He's a pretty decent overhead mark, and is a good kick to leading targets. He seems to **** it up when coming out of defence.

 

[Bell Ringer]

agree, our drafting and development has been terrible for years... bad drafting to begin with and then keeping them on the list for years when it was obvious they were not good enough (that was Ratten's biggest mistake). examples Bower, Russell, Hampson, Lucas...............

How the **** is Aaron Joseph still on our list?!?

 

[T2B_]

How the **** is Aaron Joseph still on our list?!?

Mister Carlton has certain photos of Sticks...

 

[BM123]

Anybody else really just want to some positive changes at Carlton? Feels like we are stagnating while other teams are all progressing past us and we are now the weakest team out of the big four clubs in Melbourne. Like Nbaman I've yet to see serious success happen at Carlton. I really hope Carlton is bracing themselves for a new era post Judd under Malthouse since we need our drafting/trading periods to become one of our strengths. I'd rather Malthouse bend the team to his will then the other way around. Honestly I'm just fed up with Carlton letting people down since this *special* team managed to choke in two consecutive finals, they lost several games against poor sides in 2011 to miss out on top four only to then set us up for a embarassing 2012.

 

[brazilblue]

All I can say is thank god I am overseas at the moment and I missed the Freo game ... sounds like the same old shit.

Just hope MM has a plan for going forward. He was not meant to be paid 1m a year as a rebuild coach but that is what it has turned into.

Absolute pathetic recruiting the last few years and it has showed.

Eddie Betts should hold his head in shame asking for so much cash, he should be traded and anyone else who acts like he has.

Simply put our culture is just terrible.

We need more people like Kruze who are willing to play for less and do the team thing. Just like Geelong.

Not sure what is going on with the three Amigos ... Looks like MM has tried to put a rocket up them and they have taken offence (possibly bar Garlet) ... Poor princesses. Just so disappointed in Yarran, really really liked him but his head has just gotten too big and it has cost us big time.

I would prefer a complete rebuild than watch a team who prefer to be downhIll skiers and only think of their pay packets ahead of the glory of a premiership. We have really lost what made us great.

We have not been able to adapt to the modern era. Teams like Swans, Hawks, Cats all put the team ahead of personal glory and pay packet. We are just a team of individuals thinking about only ourselves.

Also Murphy as much as I love him is not captain material, he has no presence as Captain ... Jamison, Hendo or Kruze should be Captain ... Nuffield said.

I could literally shoot half this prancing team.

Money comes and goes ... But glory ... Glory remains and is priceless.

 

[#BeNavy]

The thing that stands out to me is this footy club doesn't have the desire to defend, nor does it have the work rate of the top teams. And it's really surprising given our coach has a "defense first" mindset.

Guys like Yarran, Betts, Murphy, McLean, Robinson simply do not defend. They aren't prepared to run hard enough to stop their opponent when the opposition are moving the ball forward. They are solely concentrated on winning the ball and nothing else.

It's the attitude of these players that rubs of on the rest of the group and then it becomes contagious. The top teams are smart enough to work this out and they make us pay.

I just think we have overrated our list. It may have a lot of talent but talent doesn't win you games. Hard work does. We will have to cut ties at the end of the year with some our talent and bring in some young talent who are prepared to work hard and not be lazy.

Our midfield has gone from being one of the best in competition to below average in the space of a couple of years. We really need to blood some youngsters and improve the depth of our midfield because it is no longer up to scratch. I'm really concerned about our mid when Judd retires.

 

[T2B_]

I thought what was a typical example of our faults how often you would see a player who should have attacked the ball/man... but instead ran straight forward for a handball receive that was never gonna come

Front running right there.

 

[broome_blue1]

Forget about Boyd or another KPP - we lack quality mids. If Murph and Juddy arent dominating we have not much else to fall back on. Graham needs to play as well as probably Menzel. Give Tuohy some time in the midfield now and seriously consider off loading Yarran and possibly Betts for some players who can play in the square.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

How the **** is Aaron Joseph still on our list?!?

agree

 

[The Blue Baggers]

also why cant laidler get a game... would be in my best 18

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Mick's waiting to release him in finals as his secret weapon, along with the Waite/Henderson forward duo. Mick's had em finals ready since the Bombers game, and we've just been throwing everyone off the scent ever since.

 

[BM123]

So anybody else think we are the least clutch team from all the teams who are at least half decent in the AFL? Always seem to lose the important ones and miss out on our intended goals for the year.