A Yank's thoughts

[lacrow]

OK fellas (and ladies),

Just some random thoughts here - most of which I've bandied about before on this board. But just think, you get them all in one place! Simple, easy to digest!

1. Perrie is finished. I've been saying that on this board all year long (incl. preseason). The guy is average at best (although I do admire his work ethic) yet I got shouted down about 1000 times because I dared to suggest that maybe he, uh,.... sucked.

2. Terry Wallace should coach the Crows next year. The guy has flair and he's got the charisma and match day talent to fire the guys up and get them playing ATTACKING football - something that's been really lacking during the tenure of one, G.Ayres. I'm glad to see some of you coming around to my warped sense of things 'cause boy did my @ss get chewed the first time I suggested Wallace.

3. Rutten MUST be given a real trial period at FF. The guy scores 3 goals in his first 3 touches and he doesn't get any more game time??? I don't care about pace at the FF position, results are results. If he really is too slow, let's please FIND OUT instead of wondering.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by lacrow
OK fellas (and ladies),

Just some random thoughts here - most of which I've bandied about before on this board. But just think, you get them all in one place! Simple, easy to digest!

1. Perrie is finished. I've been saying that on this board all year long (incl. preseason). The guy is average at best (although I do admire his work ethic) yet I got shouted down about 1000 times because I dared to suggest that maybe he, uh,.... sucked.

2. Terry Wallace should coach the Crows next year. The guy has flair and he's got the charisma and match day talent to fire the guys up and get them playing ATTACKING football - something that's been really lacking during the tenure of one, G.Ayres. I'm glad to see some of you coming around to my warped sense of things 'cause boy did my @ss get chewed the first time I suggested Wallace.

3. Rutten MUST be given a real trial period at FF. The guy scores 3 goals in his first 3 touches and he doesn't get any more game time??? I don't care about pace at the FF position, results are results. If he really is too slow, let's please FIND OUT instead of wondering.

Not bad thinking for a yank!!!

1. I'm with you. I wanted to trade Perrie last year while he was on a high as far as his trading potential was worth. He's been crap this year, and his value has deteriorated.

2. I've already said plenty on this one. Ayres out at year end and Wallace in. Not one argument from me.

3. It's FF or nothing for Rutten because of leg speed. As they say you'll never never know if you never never go!! Give him 3 or 4 games on the trot at FF and find out once and for all where he'll be at come delisting time.

 

[DaveW]

1. Perrie could still be of some usefullness to us this season. If McGregor's needed at CHB, who have we got at CHF? The aging Carey? The injury-ravaged Mark Stevens? The inconsistent Scott Stevens? The raw Watts?

Yes, Perrie's only an honest toiler. But he could still play a role for us this season.

2. Not so fond of going the recycled coach route AGAIN. I like the Peter Jonas suggestion myself.

3. I'd also like to see Rutten in the side. Certainly showed some promise last season. How have his SANFL performances been of late?

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by DaveW
1. Perrie could still be of some usefullness to us this season. If McGregor's needed at CHB, who have we got at CHF? The aging Carey? The injury-ravaged Mark Stevens? The inconsistent Scott Stevens? The raw Watts?

Yes, Perrie's only an honest toiler. But he could still play a role for us this season.

2. Not so fond of going the recycled coach route AGAIN. I like the Peter Jonas suggestion myself.

3. I'd also like to see Rutten in the side. Certainly showed some promise last season. How have his SANFL performances been of late?

Not sure but i think WA have played Ben mostly in defense this year & i have only seen his name in the best players for West just the once so far this year.

Perrie is such a frustrating player i think this year could see the end of him as far as the Crows are concerned as macca said probably 1 year to late.

If we are to have a change in our senior coach at years end i would like to see our club go for G O'Donnell but if we do go down the experienced coaches track then T Wallace is definitely the best of them that are currently available.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

1. Like Dave, I think Perrie still has value to the Crows IF used correctly. ie. Play him at CHF for a whole game, not just for part of the game, after decimating his confidence playing him out of position in the backline. Sarge was handy when playing CHF last year, so why wouldn't he this year if given a fair go?

2. Leaning towards Wallace too, but all possible options should be explored.

3. I agree that we should try out Rutten, as well as several other fringe players for several games in a row, to see whether they can cut it at AFL level. Very important we do this before season's end, as it will make it easier to determine who stay on our list & who to say goodbye to.

 

[marvin]

1. I agree. Perrie seems to have a great work ethic, but we saw him being as good as he was ever going to be last year. We should have put him up for trade then.

2. I don't think Wallace is all that attacking a coach, nor a great judge of talent. He was the one who invented the ultra-flood against Essendon in 2000, traded far too much for Eagleton, and didn't really bring any young players into the Bulldogs lineup from 1997-2000 (Nathan Brown excepted). I'd rather we started with a clean state next year.

3. I agree. He's got to get an extended run to see if he's up to scratch.

 

[afc9798]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
1. Like Dave, I think Perrie still has value to the Crows IF used correctly. ie. Play him at CHF for a whole game, not just for part of the game, after decimating his confidence playing him out of position in the backline. Sarge was handy when playing CHF last year, so why wouldn't he this year if given a fair go?

2. Leaning towards Wallace too, but all possible options should be explored.

3. I agree that we should try out Rutten, as well as several other fringe players for several games in a row, to see whether they can cut it at AFL level. Very important we do this before season's end, as it will make it easier to determine who stay on our list & who to say goodbye to.

Agree with the sentiments on Perrie, but I think a new coach will bury his AFL career at Adelaide. In regards to Wallace, he has some very good points: Excellent match day coach, good communicator, media friendly, innovative and would warm to the supporters quickly by engaging them in the style he did at the Bulldogs. Against: Lost motivation when the going got tough, is used to a club of battlers that had the worst of everything, brings back memories of Shaw. That said, my preference is O'Donnell, but I have a strong feeling Wallace will be the coach and I can live with that choice.

On Rutten, if he really wanted to play at the elite level, then surely he would be putting his hand up for selection through his SANFL performances. I know that sometimes the demotivation of playing in the SANFL can affect players, but it's the only real tool that he has to show that he is ready for the step up. He has to whip his opponent every week. I'd like to see what he can do for the AFC, but he needs to show something now. I hope he makes it as I suspect that he has the talent and I also hope that Fergus Watts is given a sniff this year also.

 

[lacrow]

For everybody on this board who thinks Perrie is still useful to us this year, I can only say I would much rather have Bock in the CHF role than Perrie.

If all you want is a guy who will provide a contest, then Bock is your man. Even Dermott Brereton pointed that out and as Dyertribe pointed out in another thread, Bock has already shown more in his first few games than Hentschel and Hentschel looks pretty solid so far. Plus, Bock's already got about the same skill level as Perrie.

At least Bock has more upside potential.

My apologies to Perrie if he's reading this, I really admire his heart.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by lacrow
For everybody on this board who thinks Perrie is still useful to us this year, I can only say I would much rather have Bock in the CHF role than Perrie.

If all you want is a guy who will provide a contest, then Bock is your man. Even Dermott Brereton pointed that out and as Dyertribe pointed out in another thread, Bock has already shown more in his first few games than Hentschel and Hentschel looks pretty solid so far. Plus, Bock's already got about the same skill level as Perrie.

At least Bock has more upside potential.

My apologies to Perrie if he's reading this, I really admire his heart.

Compare Bock's & Perrie's stats playing CHF & there is no comparison ... but not the way your thinking. How quickly we forget.

PS Most of the time Dermie is full of $h!t - reckon he is more interested in how the player looks!

 

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by lacrow
OK fellas (and ladies),

Just some random thoughts here - most of which I've bandied about before on this board. But just think, you get them all in one place! Simple, easy to digest!

1. Perrie is finished. I've been saying that on this board all year long (incl. preseason). The guy is average at best (although I do admire his work ethic) yet I got shouted down about 1000 times because I dared to suggest that maybe he, uh,.... sucked.

2. Terry Wallace should coach the Crows next year. The guy has flair and he's got the charisma and match day talent to fire the guys up and get them playing ATTACKING football - something that's been really lacking during the tenure of one, G.Ayres. I'm glad to see some of you coming around to my warped sense of things 'cause boy did my @ss get chewed the first time I suggested Wallace.

3. Rutten MUST be given a real trial period at FF. The guy scores 3 goals in his first 3 touches and he doesn't get any more game time??? I don't care about pace at the FF position, results are results. If he really is too slow, let's please FIND OUT instead of wondering.

1.What he said

2.What he said

3.What he said

 

[Stiffy_18]

1. Agree 110%. I suggested last year that we have seen the best of Perrie and we should cash in on him while his value is at its peek. I was shot down in flames by majority of the posters. Just ask yourself this. In the long run will Perrie help us win a premiership????? I don't think so. I admire his work ethic BUT he is a very limited footballer.

2. Wallace is far from attacking. Personally, I would like O'Donnell BUT I am certain that AFC will go after a proven coach and as such Wallace is the best out there thats available. I could live with that choice.

3. We should play a lot of youngsters, Rutten included.

 

[napsyd]

Let me play devil's advocate then:

1. Not that I ever thought Sarge was a star, but plenty of players are having down years and it appears that Ayres is unable to get the best out of any of them, even those that only ever showed their best under big Gazza. Why should Perrie be singled out? By this logic why don't we delist/trade the likes of McLeod, Edwards, Burton, Biglands and a few others also?

2. Wallace has publicly stated his desire to stay in Melbourne. He has also shown that he will leave you in the lurch when the chips are down and upside is somewhere over the horizon, much like a certain tri-colour team appears at the moment. He is a coach with a certain amount of runs on the board, but no premiership and nothing to suggest he knows how to win one. We've just had one of them. Look elsewhere.

3. By all accounts Rutten's form in the SANFL has been ordinary, hence his inability to get an AFL game. By all means try him, but maybe lets not crucify him if he doesn't play instantaneous good footy.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by napsyd
3. By all accounts Rutten's form in the SANFL has been ordinary, hence his inability to get an AFL game. By all means try him, but maybe lets not crucify him if he doesn't play instantaneous good footy.

Rutten was named as West's best on the WE. Was this a stuff up by the 'Tiser?

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Rutten was named as West's best on the WE. Was this a stuff up by the 'Tiser?

Dunno Kane.

What I do know is that I've heard his form has been average. I would say that he needs to string together a few "bests" at SANFL level before we throw him to the dogs at AFL level.

Not fussed personally whether he plays at this stage or waits a couple of weeks as long as he's given a few weeks to show his stuff once he is played, not discarded and admonished on one bad performance.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by napsyd
Wallace has publicly stated his desire to stay in Melbourne.

And more recentely he has publicly stated that he is prepared to move interstate to continue coaching.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
And more recentely he has publicly stated that he is prepared to move interstate to continue coaching.

Provided thats to Brisbane, Freo or Port I'm sure he will.

He does not come across as the type of bloke who's looking for a few years of hard yards before success.

Wallace has previously shown what he does in a situation he believes has little upside.

 

[jmorg1]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
And more recentely he has publicly stated that he is prepared to move interstate to continue coaching.

And in more recent news, he has stated the Adelaide Crows are his first choice ... well, not really ... I was just kidding.

 

[lacrow]

As for Wallace deserting the Bulldogs, c'mon that situation bears no resemblance to the Crows.

The Dogs were a club with zero cash and not much hope of even surviving as a club. That is a MUCH darker scenario than a few years of rebuilding at arguably the AFL's strongest club.

I would be many of us on this forum would've made the same decision. There is only so much you can take.

 

[napsyd]

Surely loyalty to the club is something we want from the coach.

I would gladly take say a Daniher over a Wallace any day.

If we want to take "the Wallace approach" why don't all of us on this forum start barracking for the Saints, now that the Crows aren't winning.

I want a coach with something resembling a spine, not one who will walk out on us if a greener pasture offers itself.

This is not a position like any ordinary job. When the chips are down this is when you need your coach to stand firm and be 100% with the club, the players and supporters.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by napsyd
Provided thats to Brisbane, Freo or Port I'm sure he will.

He does not come across as the type of bloke who's looking for a few years of hard yards before success.

Wallace has previously shown what he does in a situation he believes has little upside.

I just hope you could listen Wallace's interview with KG and Cornesy a few weeks ago. He is deadset eyeing off the Adelaide job. Macca23 will back me up on this I am sure (as would anyone that listened tot hat interview).

He previously stated that he would want to go to a club that will win him a premiership within a couple of year. He admitted that its a foregone conclusion that he won't get that posisiton so what he is looking for is to go to a financially strong club, with strong support base and a strong board. He also said he will be more than happy to go to an interstate club. Trust me he is eyeing off Adelaide Job more than anyone else out there. My gut feeling tells me he will get it.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by napsyd
Surely loyalty to the club is something we want from the coach.

I would gladly take say a Daniher over a Wallace any day.

If we want to take "the Wallace approach" why don't all of us on this forum start barracking for the Saints, now that the Crows aren't winning.

I want a coach with something resembling a spine, not one who will walk out on us if a greener pasture offers itself.

This is not a position like any ordinary job. When the chips are down this is when you need your coach to stand firm and be 100% with the club, the players and supporters.

Average duration of a coaching career is 3 years. Now any man that looks after himself will go where he will have security. Now, napsyd, I assume you are employed. If another company came your way and offered you a bigger salary and better working conditions I am sure you would seriously consider it and probably take on that offer. It is no different in coaching caper. In fact I would argue its more cut throat.

After all Ayres quit Geelong with a year remaining on his contract to come and coach us. The bloke wanted security and he did the right thing by himself and his family. I don't think anyone should judge that. I am sure a lot of us would do the same in our proffesions, its just that as a passionate footy followers loyalty comes before anything else but in reality of our workplace security is very important.

Whats to say that Western Bulldogs could afford to resign Wallace on his salary when they have been cost cutting in every single area of football department.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by napsyd
Let me play devil's advocate then:

1. Not that I ever thought Sarge was a star, but plenty of players are having down years and it appears that Ayres is unable to get the best out of any of them, even those that only ever showed their best under big Gazza. Why should Perrie be singled out? By this logic why don't we delist/trade the likes of McLeod, Edwards, Burton, Biglands and a few others also?

2. Wallace has publicly stated his desire to stay in Melbourne. He has also shown that he will leave you in the lurch when the chips are down and upside is somewhere over the horizon, much like a certain tri-colour team appears at the moment. He is a coach with a certain amount of runs on the board, but no premiership and nothing to suggest he knows how to win one. We've just had one of them. Look elsewhere.

3. By all accounts Rutten's form in the SANFL has been ordinary, hence his inability to get an AFL game. By all means try him, but maybe lets not crucify him if he doesn't play instantaneous good footy.

OK heres my sixpence worth:
Perrie appeals for several reasons, most noticably is that he is not the most skilled but he tries "generally" his guts out.
He has very good hands as witnessed last year on more than several occasions.
He is a "nutcase" in that half his problem is in his head - he's admitted that himself.
He's still quite young, and hasn't IMO reached his potential.
Remember how A.Ingerson went from hack to a vital cog in Melbournes defence (worst kick ever) or St Kilda's Aussie Jones, who everyone said a season ago was on the scrap heap - look now!!!.
If you classify him as the 38th player on the list, IMO he's worth perservering with.

I'll be happy with either Ayres or Wallace. Wallace in a professional environment, on his last shot would flourish. As long as he doesn't turn us into a mosquitto fleet with no vigour, KPP, of size.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I just hope you could listen Wallace's interview with KG and Cornesy a few weeks ago. He is deadset eyeing off the Adelaide job. Macca23 will back me up on this I am sure (as would anyone that listened tot hat interview).

He previously stated that he would want to go to a club that will win him a premiership within a couple of year. He admitted that its a foregone conclusion that he won't get that posisiton so what he is looking for is to go to a financially strong club, with strong support base and a strong board. He also said he will be more than happy to go to an interstate club. Trust me he is eyeing off Adelaide Job more than anyone else out there. My gut feeling tells me he will get it.

Stiffy's telling it as it is. The only thing Wallace didn't say was "yes please". Adelaide fits his criteria perfectly, and he emphasized that of course he would move interstate.

As for wanting to leave the Bulldogs, he was treated abominably. How soon we forget pertinent facts. He is a professional coach, and his coaching fees are his wages.

Have you forgotten how he kept putting his claims in to get paid as agreed per his contract, and received nothing for months?? They were his bloody wages and they wouldn't/couldn't pay them.

Finally he made his plight public, as he had no other forum to turn to. Smorgon then comes out and pretends that he had never heard about it, and that it was an admin error. He was shafted by all parties!!

None of us would put up with that crap, doing 2 jobs as coach/promotions officer, while working with B grade facilities and resources in a club that could fold at any time.

We'd want to get out and get a job where there was job security and you also actually got paid your wages if it were us.

Smorgon and the Bulldogs called Wallace a traitor for wanting to leave - the same people who would get rid of a coach or players at the drop of a hat if it suited them.

Let's get real.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by napsyd
Let me play devil's advocate then:

2. Wallace has publicly stated his desire to stay in Melbourne. He has also shown that he will leave you in the lurch when the chips are down and upside is somewhere over the horizon, much like a certain tri-colour team appears at the moment. He is a coach with a certain amount of runs on the board, but no premiership and nothing to suggest he knows how to win one. We've just had one of them. Look elsewhere.

Let me also play devil's advocate.

Wallace as you say has stated a desire to stay in Melbourne. Wallace is "xenophobic" - hates interstate sides. Hates the Crows in particular.

Wallace is not an attacking coach - he likes the flood.

Wallace does not have any runs on the board. No flags. Two PF losses is his best achievement - and both of those games his side was red hot favourite and playing at home against an interstate side. One of those PF games he lost by 70+ points.

Wallace subsequently took the side that lost those two PF games down to near-bottom.

Wallace is probably the only coach in AFL history to sack himself and land himself on the unemployment queue.

The Crows don't want Wallace.

 

[jc67]

Originally posted by ok.crows
Let me also play devil's advocate.

Wallace as you say has stated a desire to stay in Melbourne. Wallace is "xenophobic" - hates interstate sides. Hates the Crows in particular.

Wallace is not an attacking coach - he likes the flood.

Wallace does not have any runs on the board. No flags. Two PF losses is his best achievement - and both of those games his side was red hot favourite and playing at home against an interstate side. One of those PF games he lost by 70+ points.

Wallace subsequently took the side that lost those two PF games down to near-bottom.

Wallace is probably the only coach in AFL history to sack himself and land himself on the unemployment queue.

The Crows don't want Wallace.

devil's advocate or the voice of reason?
I dont recon wallace is a good coach/option.
I recon at best he was fresh in his day and thats all.
In fact i would rather keep Ayres than get Wallace. and I have well and truly had enough of Ayres.