Current Abduction of 4yo Blowholes Shacks WA *Terence Kelly Convicted

[Kurve]

MEDIA
Current - The Bunker Part 2

 

[SquiffyRae]

There was a delay by parents in contacting police due to them searching area themselves with callous on Facebook etc for help which came. Locals came with drones and 4wheelers etc. All over the scene before police were contacted. Evidence contamination for sure.

People really need to seek police assistance and advice 1st before social media shoutouts so that crime scenes are uncontaminated or altered. The subhuman may have turned up to 'help'.

This is a prime example of someone with all the benefit of calm thinking and hindsight trying to give advice.

If you discover in the morning your child is missing, your immediate thought is to find them. The idea of an abduction might flicker across your mind but then you tell yourself nah that's so rare they've probably just wandered off somewhere. So then it becomes a frantic search to find where they wandered off to before they get hurt. Your mind's not really on preserving evidence.

Acting as if the entire area could be a potential crime scene would require a level of rational thought most people would be incapable of in that situation

 

[SquiffyRae]

If they can match up campsite CCTV with vehicle details and online payment records I assume that would have been done days ago. I think either they have very vague/incomplete information and have exhausted all other efforts to fill the gaps (hence the dashcam and CCTV request) or they have none (hence again the dashcam and CCTV request).

Could be that they matched up CCTV and vehicle details of one or more cars but said cars haven't returned to the address listed in the registration details so they want to find out where that vehicle went if it wasn't home

 

[ms finch]

This is a prime example of someone with all the benefit of calm thinking and hindsight trying to give advice.

If you discover in the morning your child is missing, your immediate thought is to find them. The idea of an abduction might flicker across your mind but then you tell yourself nah that's so rare they've probably just wandered off somewhere. So then it becomes a frantic search to find where they wandered off to before they get hurt. Your mind's not really on preserving evidence.

Acting as if the entire area could be a potential crime scene would require a level of rational thought most people would be incapable of in that situation

100% agree. I was in a situation once that involved someone potentially being in a crisis and my only instinct was to get in touch with them/get to them. A person I was with literally had to yell at me that we had to call the police. It’s not necessarily the first thing people think of, especially when it’s not a crime situation.

 

[ms finch]

Could be that they matched up CCTV and vehicle details of one or more cars but said cars haven't returned to the address listed in the registration details so they want to find out where that vehicle went if it wasn't home

Yes, definitely a possibility. But I think they would have gotten onto it sooner if that was the case. Given the amount of police working on this I assume 3-4 days would have been sufficient to either determine the whereabouts of people known to be at the campsite or realise they had to seek further assistance. I could be overestimating police, but a week seems a long time to wait.

 

[coylez]

My take on the suspect: The unsub has been wanting to do this for a very long time. A loner who has camped at the Blowholes by himself before and is quite familiar with the area including the different entry and exit points. He would have numerous fuel storage containers outside his vehicle.

 

[ms finch]

My take on the suspect: The unsub has been wanting to do this for a very long time. A loner who has camped at the Blowholes by himself before and is quite familiar with the area including the different entry and exit points. He would have numerous fuel storage containers outside his vehicle.

This is what I think as well. I also think they had somewhere nearby to take her (by nearby I mean within a couple of hours at a maximum). Doesn’t need to be a house - could be a more permanent but isolated campsite or even just down a dirt track they know well in the area.

I also think the person will have some sort of history of behaviour consistent with this. Whether or not they have been caught or are known for it is another question. In my view this is the acting out of a fantasy that they have been building up to.

I thought that as soon as I read the news she was missing and she hadn’t been found in a day, and nothing I’ve read has altered it; in fact, the information coming out only makes it seem more and more likely.

 

[Kurve]

My take on the suspect: The unsub has been wanting to do this for a very long time. A loner who has camped at the Blowholes by himself before and is quite familiar with the area including the different entry and exit points. He would have numerous fuel storage containers outside his vehicle.

There's probably a couple like that but the caretaker should know who they are. The caretaker there wouldn't miss much, it's cheap but it's not a free campsite.

 

[ms finch]

There's probably a couple like that but the caretaker should know who they are. The caretaker there wouldn't miss much, it's cheap but it's not a free campsite.

They might not have camped at the specific campsite that regularly to be known well, but could bush camp in the area and simply know the campsite and whole area quite well.

 

[QuietThinker]

Could she have been stowed away in one of the caravans/vans that left before police arrived? A van or caravan could park up side of road overnight after driving for several hours - (no need for motel) without too much suspicion.


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[metic]

Those blowholes have claimed lives before.
it's a dangerous coastline,
The swell got very big too. A remarkably big swell a few days after the 16th.
On the 16th there may have been a 2metre swell, but then it got bigger rising 3-4m a few days later.
If a little body went into the ocean in the vicinity of the blowholes to quobba , the body may not be found.
The waves crash into the cliffs heavily.
It's treacherous...sharp jagged reef powerful waves and big sharks.
Hopefully she's not in the ocean but it's a possibility.
The area is fraught with danger!

https://www.seabreeze.com.au/Img/Photos/Kitesurfing/1269714.jpg

Jmo ; The campsite they stayed, at the blowholes site was not ever an appealing camping spot back when i was there, but the spots further north are!
The Blowholes was not far enough drive off the bitumen.
When you drive an hour north on the dirt roads the camps are incredible.
Thus they are world renowned , gnaraloo and red bluff camps.
Access to the blowholes area is very easy for anyone..day trippers, tourists , bogans, hoons, fishes, winos & whatevers. Just a drive out of Carnarvon 45mins..
It's just too close to a tourist spot - the blowholes. A spot easy to access for thieves, can imagine it has been potentially used by thieves. Carnarvon has a lot of crime, drug problems, and many multi , colored crew.
Have to say its a pretty dodgy spot, Lots of trucks in the area too. Trucks going everywhere around Carnarvon .

 

[Kurve]

They might not have camped at the specific campsite that regularly to be known well, but could bush camp in the area and simply know the campsite and whole area quite well.

I had a horrible feeling it was a teenager camping with his family tbh, a kid who blends that nobody notices who's not come to police attention before and who took her on impulse creeping around. An experienced child predator though, who as you say, knows the site well could also have noted a child's bike and other toys around their tent. Maybe even heard the interaction she had with her mum when she woke up at 1.30am and asked for a glass of water.

 

[MiguelM]

This is a prime example of someone with all the benefit of calm thinking and hindsight trying to give advice.

If you discover in the morning your child is missing, your immediate thought is to find them. The idea of an abduction might flicker across your mind but then you tell yourself nah that's so rare they've probably just wandered off somewhere. So then it becomes a frantic search to find where they wandered off to before they get hurt. Your mind's not really on preserving evidence.

Acting as if the entire area could be a potential crime scene would require a level of rational thought most people would be incapable of in that situation

Also the fact that in the first few hours you would be hard pressed getting any police assistance unless there is clear evidence of an abduction. Even when this became public it took a while for police to turn attention to a sinister act.

100 percent first instinct is to start searching.

 

[Kurve]

Dr. Tim Watson Munro, forensic psychologist.


‘The problem with a person like this is it could be anyone,’ he said.

‘If you met the offender he may appear very normal.

‘This is the danger about these people – their ordinariness. They can blend in very easily and generally they are well presented.’

‘We are talking about someone who is bad but not mad,’ he said.

‘To do something like that without any anxiety suggests they are psychopathic in their disposition because psychopaths have a very high threshold for anxiety.

‘Things that would make a normal person’s blood turn cold doesn’t bother them.’

Someone who could sneak into a tent and abduct a child in her sleeping bag as her parents lay next to her ‘is not somebody who is prone to nervousness’.

Police now believe an abduction took place because the zipper of the tent was found undone in the morning, even though Cleo is too short to reach it.

It can be the case that child predators and sex offenders are dishevelled, affected by drugs and alcohol or have below average intelligence, but in this case Dr Watson-Munro says ‘it’s very unlikely’.

https://www.newsmond.com/cleo-smith-disappearance-how-search-for-carnarvon-four-year-old-unfolded-before-abduction-theory/

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

To abduct a kid from a tent where you don't know what's going on in that tent..., are the parents awake...

To me, this is the most brazen predator I've ever heard of

Still trying to wrap my head around it

 

[zedx]

To abduct a kid from a tent where you don't know what's going on in that tent..., are the parents awake...

To me, this is the most brazen predator I've ever heard of

Still trying to wrap my head around it

Very brazen!! They must have seen Cleo at some point to know she was in the tent. People dont just turn up in the middle of the night, choose a random tent and hope there is child in there to take. Unless it was a thief looking for valuables , saw Cleo and decided to take her instead. Which to me seems less likely, as a thief would more likely take what was outside the tent or ransack the car. Less chance of being caught and waking anyone. Also how would they have know Cleo was sleeping near a doorway? Just luck??

 

[Kurve]

They must have seen Cleo at some point to know she was in the tent.

She was only outside for a very short period, they didn't get there until 6.30pm and it was almost dark then. Went to bed at 8.00pm.

Either someone snuck into the campsite unseen and not noticed at all sneaking around, heard the exchange between Cleo and her mother at 1.30am or targeted her when she got there and before she went to bed.

Really scary.

 

[rank and file]

Those blowholes have claimed lives before.
it's a dangerous coastline,
The swell got very big too. A remarkably big swell a few days after the 16th.
On the 16th there may have been a 2metre swell, but then it got bigger rising 3-4m a few days later.
If a little body went into the ocean in the vicinity of the blowholes to quobba , the body may not be found.
The waves crash into the cliffs heavily.
It's treacherous...sharp jagged reef powerful waves and big sharks.
Hopefully she's not in the ocean but it's a possibility.
The area is fraught with danger!

https://www.seabreeze.com.au/Img/Photos/Kitesurfing/1269714.jpg

Jmo ; The campsite they stayed, at the blowholes site was not ever an appealing camping spot back when i was there, but the spots further north are!
The Blowholes was not far enough drive off the bitumen.
When you drive an hour north on the dirt roads the camps are incredible.
Thus they are world renowned , gnaraloo and red bluff camps.
Access to the blowholes area is very easy for anyone..day trippers, tourists , bogans, hoons, fishes, winos & whatevers. Just a drive out of Carnarvon 45mins..
It's just too close to a tourist spot - the blowholes. A spot easy to access for thieves, can imagine it has been potentially used by thieves. Carnarvon has a lot of crime, drug problems, and many multi , colored crew.
Have to say its a pretty dodgy spot, Lots of trucks in the area too. Trucks going everywhere around Carnarvon .

You make some good points
But you embarrass yourself by saying,your quote.
"Carnarvon has a lot of crime,drug problems,and multi , colored crew."
Then doubled down with dumb,your quote again
"Trucks going everywhere around Carnarvon."
Go sleep.

 

[Rocky2014]

Here's a wide shot of the tent and surrounding shacks. Tent is centre right. The back of it sits on the roadway. That's a massive wide expanse of relatively quiet sand to walk across if you're careful. If they came from that side I wouldn't be surprised.

The other thing that struck me was just how exposed they are, particularly if under that gazebo, with a lantern or spotlight illuminating it. I think where the gazebo stands is slightly elevated too. A camper arriving while Cleo and the baby were being fed by mum under the gazebo and passing through that track on the left would definitely notice them - particularly if they're driving slowly trying to find a spot. And every shack around it has a view directly on that tent. The road at the bottom goes the length of the campground from what I understand - theoretically they may have first seen them from there, but I would say you'd need to travel down that road on the left to be close enough to take an interest/see Cleo..

One more thing - the 4wd in the background which is parked at a shack next to a caravan (2nd photo). I'm not sure why but that vehicle seems to have been the only one allowed to stay. I just wonder why that is?

I'd be absolutely shocked if this was some random person just passing through- surely it has to be someone staying there, and more than likely staying in or next to one of those shacks in the photos.

I understand the opportunistic viewpoint, but I imagine a child abductor still needs time to view their target for long enough to develop a desire to take them when the risk is so high. I would have though the impulse would be curbed when the risk rises above a certain level (otherwise we'd see abductions regularly), which is why I don't think it's just someone passing through. However, sitting in a position in the vicinity of the tent, where you could just quietly watch for a longer period of time, may well increase the impulse to a level where the risk becomes irrelevant.

I'm still buggered if I know though!

 

[2006_Eagles]

To abduct a kid from a tent where you don't know what's going on in that tent..., are the parents awake...

To me, this is the most brazen predator I've ever heard of

Still trying to wrap my head around it

Very young kids should be in the same tent as their parents

 

[Rocky2014]

Very young kids should be in the same tent as their parents

They were...

 

[Redacted]

Those blowholes have claimed lives before.
it's a dangerous coastline,
The swell got very big too. A remarkably big swell a few days after the 16th.
On the 16th there may have been a 2metre swell, but then it got bigger rising 3-4m a few days later.
If a little body went into the ocean in the vicinity of the blowholes to quobba , the body may not be found.
The waves crash into the cliffs heavily.
It's treacherous...sharp jagged reef powerful waves and big sharks.
Hopefully she's not in the ocean but it's a possibility.
The area is fraught with danger!

https://www.seabreeze.com.au/Img/Photos/Kitesurfing/1269714.jpg

Jmo ; The campsite they stayed, at the blowholes site was not ever an appealing camping spot back when i was there, but the spots further north are!
The Blowholes was not far enough drive off the bitumen.
When you drive an hour north on the dirt roads the camps are incredible.
Thus they are world renowned , gnaraloo and red bluff camps.
Access to the blowholes area is very easy for anyone..day trippers, tourists , bogans, hoons, fishes, winos & whatevers. Just a drive out of Carnarvon 45mins..
It's just too close to a tourist spot - the blowholes. A spot easy to access for thieves, can imagine it has been potentially used by thieves. Carnarvon has a lot of crime, drug problems, and many multi , colored crew.
Have to say its a pretty dodgy spot, Lots of trucks in the area too. Trucks going everywhere around Carnarvon .

My late uncle who worked at the NASA tracking station, from the time it was opened until it was closed, said much the same thing about Carnarvon in his time there, but that was back 5 decades ago. Surely the crime, youth unemployment, indigenous socio economic and community segregation challenges had been ameliorated and turned into a functional community by now.

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[zedx]

She was only outside for a very short period, they didn't get there until 6.30pm and it was almost dark then. Went to bed at 8.00pm.

Either someone snuck into the campsite unseen and not noticed at all sneaking around, heard the exchange between Cleo and her mother at 1.30am or targeted her when she got there and before she went to bed.

Really scary.

An hour and half is plenty of time for some one see her before she went to bed. Especially looking at Rocky2014 's pics above. Their tent was in a prime position for other campers to see and hear her. My other thought is that it is some one they knew, even just remotely. This person knew they would be there. They said they had been camping there since they were kids. Does that mean as adults they have always camped in the same spot? This person then knew exactly when & where to go to abduct Cleo? And if this is so, they would probably have been a local who knew the area and knew how to get in and out with out being unobserved.

 

[Redacted]

An hour and half is plenty of time for some one see her before she went to bed. Especially looking at Rocky2014 's pics above. Their tent was in a prime position for other campers to see and hear her. My other thought is that it is some one they knew, even just remotely. This person knew they would be there. They said they had been camping there since they were kids. Does that mean as adults they have always camped in the same spot? This person then knew exactly when & where to go to abduct Cleo? And if this is so, they would probably have been a local who knew the area and knew how to get in and out with out being unobserved.

Quite a few posts back something was mentioned about a Facebook post of someone's allegation of the caretaker entering their tent at 2.30am, or someone purporting to be a caretaker entering their tent a month before this.
Although this is hearsay it does open a line of thought that quite possibly that the most likely person to break into someone's camp is brazen, possibly with self delusions of entitlement and authority. Someone who considers themselves as having ownership of the camping grounds. A current or former long term resident, regular visitor, shack owner, local station or texada salt employee, park ranger or cartaker? And as the psychologist opined someone without anxiety and a well masked personality disorder.
The first people the police would've probably interviewed and asked for DNA from already, but were any "away" when the police came to see them?

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[zedx]

Quite a few posts back something was mentioned about a Facebook post of someone's allegation of the caretaker entering their tent at 2.30am, or someone purporting to be a caretaker entering their tent a month before this.
Although this is hearsay it does open a line of thought that quite possibly that the most likely person to break into someone's camp is brazen, possibly with self delusions of entitlement and authority. Someone who considers themselves as having ownership of the camping grounds. A long term resident, a regular visitor, a shack owner, a local station or texada salt employee, a park ranger or a cartaker. And as the psychologist opined someone without anxiety and a well masked personality disorder.
The first people the police would've probably interviewed and asked for DNA from already, but were any "away" when the police came to see them?

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yes I saw that post, thanks. I think we are going to find this abduction is not completely random.

 

[FR0GGY]

Quite a few posts back something was mentioned about a Facebook post of someone's allegation of the caretaker entering their tent at 2.30am, or someone purporting to be a caretaker entering their tent a month before this.
Although this is hearsay it does open a line of thought that quite possibly that the most likely person to break into someone's camp is brazen, possibly with self delusions of entitlement and authority. Someone who considers themselves as having ownership of the camping grounds. A current or former long term resident, regular visitor, shack owner, local station or texada salt employee, park ranger or cartaker? And as the psychologist opined someone without anxiety and a well masked personality disorder.
The first people the police would've probably interviewed and asked for DNA from already, but were any "away" when the police came to see them?

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Do you have to register for the campground?
I know here in SA you’d have to put down 2 adults and 2 kids when you book.