Ablett Bashed

[Junkie]

Ablett was more than twice the girl's age and the issues involved were more than just drug taking. His life experience was much greater, although he obviously had not learned much in the process. Society believed Ablett should have demonstrated more personal resonsibility and self discipline in such a situation. If the woman had been closer to his age, there still would have been a scandal, but Ablett would not have been held responsible to the same extent. Just as Horan, due to her relative age and experience, would not have been blamed had the situation been reversed.

I still dont understand how he is responsible because he is older than her??? Didn't they take drugs together, at their own will? Then when Ablett realised she wasn't well immediately call an ambulance?

I understand that he didn't tell her that it was heroin but it is likely she consumed heroin in the ecstasy tablets and who's to say she didn't take more of 'the powder' when Ablett passed out?

I dont know the facts, I'm only going off what's reported (which is more often than not, rubbish). But from what I've read I dont think people who dont know all the facts can continue to blame Ablett.

 

[Blues_Man]

Your argument here discounts the implied obligations between people. You are obviously not familiar with the legal concept of a tort. Despite what you (or Gary) may think, it is not a case of "every man for himself" when engaging a drug-bender. You do not have to be in a formal position of duty of care to be held to account for the well-being of others. This obligation is not necessarily symmetric either. In this sense, the relative age difference was not so much a factor as the experience, authority and credibility gap.

Frankly, to answer your original point, Alisha would not be expected to know the dangers of snorting heroin (after telling Gary it was cocaine) and no reasonable person would expect Gary to follow her instructions to "pull up stumps". Can the converse be said? This is the nub of it.

Remarks like "oh, I had a scrapbook but I wouldn't jump of a cliff if Gary asked me" are irrelevant. We need to look at the specific circumstances surrounding Gary and Alisha. To entirely discount the effects of social status on the decision-making process and judgement of a young person is scientifically bogus and ethically bankrupt, and hence has no place in the law.

That Gary Ablett escaped further criminal or civil sanction is surprising. He's a lucky man. Regardless of the dubious black-letter interpretation of the law, certainly the Coroner held him responsible and to a degree negligent. The broader community and the media find his actions in this matter contemptible and, outside of Geelong, he is regarded as a disgrace and a figure of ridicule and disgust.

Ablett apologists may work tirelessly to get us to forget this (and other) incidents. They may lobby to get him into the AFL Hall of Fame and other footy accolades. They may get a street somewhere named after him. But we'll always remember his behaviour that day and his subsequent dodginess in protecting his own hide at the expense of the Horan family.

It says a lot about these people that they believe goal-kicking ability over-rides any other notions of decency.

Thank you for putting so succinctly and logically, what i have been trying to say in this thread all along

 

[LongBomb]

No, you've been advocating Ablett be bashed with weapons "and more" (what ever that means)

I must have missed the part where he said that.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Didn't get charged because he didn't give a statement.


.

I've read the statement he made to the police, I think it was on The Age's website a while back. Makes pretty interesting reading.

 

[beatnik]

yes especially if i had been involved in the death of a young girl ...i would deserved to be bashed ...and more

moron...

who are you to pass judgement?

people with an education beyond yr 10 and access to all the facts - you know those lawyers and judges n'stuff - assessed the case and fell well short of suggesting he be hospitalised (or more) for his role

i saw a kid at an 18th paraletic on the sidewalk surrounded by ambulance drivers and he later died on the way to hospital - does that mean the mates he was drinking with deserve to be bashed because they were 'involved'??

dont be too quick to pass judgement without checking the facts - I don't know 'em all, do you?

 

[Blues_Man]

moron...

who are you to pass judgement?

people with an education beyond yr 10 and access to all the facts - you know those lawyers and judges n'stuff - assessed the case and fell well short of suggesting he be hospitalised (or more) for his role

i saw a kid at an 18th paraletic on the sidewalk surrounded by ambulance drivers and he later died on the way to hospital - does that mean the mates he was drinking with deserve to be bashed because they were 'involved'??

dont be too quick to pass judgement without checking the facts - I don't know 'em all, do you?

I know facts to know Ablett is a scumbag and you are a moron ...now go away you silly little nuffy

 

[Bernie L]

I know facts to know Ablett is a scumbag and you are a moron ...now go away you silly little nuffy

you have said you know the facts previoulsy blues man. why dont you share them with us.
i'm sure we would all like to know what you propose you know!!!

 

[garth p]

I've read the statement he made to the police, I think it was on The Age's website a while back. Makes pretty interesting reading.

I meant to the Coroner, not the police. It is well known that he gave a statement to the police.

 

[skilts]

.

Frankly, to answer your original point, Alisha would not be expected to know the dangers of snorting heroin (after telling Gary it was cocaine) and no reasonable person would expect Gary to follow her instructions to "pull up stumps". Can the converse be said? This is the nub of it.

To entirely discount the effects of social status on the decision-making process and judgement of a young person is scientifically bogus and ethically bankrupt, and hence has no place in the law.

That Gary Ablett escaped further criminal or civil sanction is surprising. He's a lucky man. Regardless of the dubious black-letter interpretation of the law, certainly the Coroner held him responsible and to a degree negligent. The broader community and the media find his actions in this matter contemptible and, outside of Geelong, he is regarded as a disgrace and a figure of ridicule and disgust.
QUOTE]

How fortunate we are to have a fully-fledged judge in our midst. On what basis could you possibly say what the girl knew or didn't know about drugs? Do you have access to privileged information to which the rest of us are not privy, or are you basing your assessments on media reports and rumour?

Is it in any way possible that Ablett's responsiblity to exercise a duty of care could have been diminished because of his own state of intoxication?

Your post is a mixture of emotion and vitriol, masquerading as rational assessment. Your comment connecting social status and its effect on the decision-making process reeks of sociology, or worse, an exposure to social workers. To present an assessment of the situation as posed by you, as having the benefit of a scientific aspect to it, is meaningless waffle. Are you saying that the power balance and responsibility in relationships is scientifically measurable? You sir, are a fool, and a dangerous one at that, because not everyone will see through your vacuous gum-flapping.

The crime committed by Ablett was that he may have refused to tell the paramedics what drug they'd been ingesting. This pre-supposes he was capable of doing so, given his addled state. No charges could be laid with any prospect of a conviction, for a variety of reasons. This is why we have a legal system to act on behalf of people who are criminally wronged. Unless of course, you wish to retry the matter, given your exalted judicial status.

If by some odious mischance, you have some involvement in the legal system, in no circumstances should you ever allow anybody to coerce you into appearing for the defence.

 

[ripitup27]

I give up on this thread. It started out as the news that Ablett had been bashed, now its whether Ablett should have done this should have done that in relation to Horan. Years ago now. Get over it. We all know everyones opinion, but none of us are educated in the matter cause none of us were there. Lets just leave that s**t alone for f**ks sake.

 

[beatnik]

I know facts to know Ablett is a scumbag and you are a moron ...now go away you silly little nuffy

ah the scathing wit of a Carlton supporter - I call you a moron and in an original return of fire you call me...a moron!

so you base your entire theory on the fact that 'he is a scumbag'...thank you for confirming you don't actually know any facts and are just flapping your virtual gums

BTW ablett is a better player than I have ever seen at Carlton (and I rate Williams, Sticks, Kouta and Sos pretty highly)...show some flipping respect

 

[Bernie L]

I give up on this thread. It started out as the news that Ablett had been bashed, now its whether Ablett should have done this should have done that in relation to Horan. Years ago now. Get over it. We all know everyones opinion, but none of us are educated in the matter cause none of us were there. Lets just leave that s**t alone for f**ks sake.

rip, skilts, beat. good work. reckon this thread has seen its time. its now turning into everyone calling everyone something because we all have our own opinions. we are all just beating our own chest to get our point across again and again.

 

[thehoff]

Typical Ablett bashing thread. Everything he does, this garbage gets mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[Blues_Man]

ah the scathing wit of a Carlton supporter - I call you a moron and in an original return of fire you call me...a moron!

so you base your entire theory on the fact that 'he is a scumbag'...thank you for confirming you don't actually know any facts and are just flapping your virtual gums

BTW ablett is a better player than I have ever seen at Carlton (and I rate Williams, Sticks, Kouta and Sos pretty highly)...show some flipping respect

stop trying to talk about football champions you Loins bandwagoner ...as if anyone gives a shyte what you think ..best you stick to bum sniffers where your expertise would excell . respect needs to be earned and being good at playing a sport does not give you the right to engage in any anti social behaviour you like .
OJ Simpson was a champion sportsman ..do you consider him a role model like you do Ablett ??? he just like Ablett was also never convicted
now go away and try and think up a reasonable arguement why some people other than misguided suckers like you and a few other cat fans believe ablett not to be a pilliar of society

 

[LongBomb]

OJ simpson was found liable of the death of Goldman by a civil court.

You'd best be careful when making such a foolhardy comparison.

 

[hyperswivel]

Come on guys, just because we all hate Geelong and their supporters doesn't mean we need to hang it on the much maligned champion of the game.

Gary Ablett
Geelong Cats

 

[Diego]

I am an ignoramus

Why are you so qualified to make and pass such big judgements blues man? And why don't you ever answer any questions that contain facts? Why do you choose to ignore them?

And why arnt you banned for making such stupid allegations and claims? Why are you still around.

Please present us with a valid reason why you should be the one to pass judgements and ridicule anyone who doesnt share the same pathetic views as your ignorant self?

Please.

 

[Diego]

stop trying to talk about football champions you Loins bandwagoner ...as if anyone gives a shyte what you think ..best you stick to bum sniffers where your expertise would excell . respect needs to be earned and being good at playing a sport does not give you the right to engage in any anti social behaviour you like .
OJ Simpson was a champion sportsman ..do you consider him a role model like you do Ablett ??? he just like Ablett was also never convicted
now go away and try and think up a reasonable arguement why some people other than misguided suckers like you and a few other cat fans believe ablett not to be a pilliar of society

So you spend the good part of that paragraph insulting someone with vile for not agreeing with you and then you present some misinformed view? Then you have the hide to sit there and act all arrogant about it? You sir are a failure and hypocrite.

Seriously your intelligence has been questioned all throughout this thread and you have not given us any reason to back down and say "yeah Blues Man is right".

I don’t expect you to come up with anything that resembles an intelligent and thought-out reply. Its just so easy to sit there in your sheltered little room and just pass judgment on everything and anything.

Forum hero.

 

[Diego]

I know facts to know Ablett is a scumbag and you are a moron ...now go away you silly little nuffy

So I guess if the Herald Sun tells you "so and so is a bad and naughty man" without readign facts and with a hint of bias coverage, then thats your final judgement?

I guess next you will be calling for the death penalty reagrdless of thinking about how emotional your reaction is.

Thats why silly and ignorant people like yourself should never be allowed to vote, look at what has happened to australia thanks to small minded inbreds like yourself.

 

[Diego]

name calling is no way to get your point across ...next you'll be taking shots at me with your handbag

Oh my you really are a nuff nuff.

 

[Diego]

The simple fact that you believe that the girls age was of no consequence shows you to be lacking in credibility ...the girls age played a major role in what occurred ...you and other Ablett apologists who believe Ablett should be exonerated of any blame associated with the the tragedy should be ashamed of yourself

You really are small minded to think that she didn't know what she was getting herself into.

I bet you think that most 18 year olds go out but don't take drugs and its those bad bad drug dealers who go around the streets at night forcing their drugs down the throats of unwilling 18 year olds while they plead with their lifes not to do so.

I really hope you don't have any kids.

 

[hyperswivel]

Gary was not the only person involved in that incident.
There is a high-profile person in Geelong who I would hold far more personally responsible than Gary himself.
Gary made a mistake. One of many.
Mistakes happen all the time. Blues-man is a case in point.

 

[skilts]

I know facts to know Ablett is a scumbag and you are a moron ...now go away you silly little nuffy

Still nothing to report on this front Bluesman? We're waiting with baited keyboards for your incontrovertible evidence to back this claim. Or are you just an empty, sad, vicious human being?

If you had any guts at all you'd post your evidence and then be prepared to defend the ensuing defamation action. What a wimp. If you choose not to post any evidence, assuming you have any, it will be obvious that nobody should ever take any notice of anything posted under your name. Actually, that won't be necessary. This condition already exists.

 

[Junkie]

Why are you so qualified to make and pass such big judgements blues man? And why don't you ever answer any questions that contain facts? Why do you choose to ignore them?

And why arnt you banned for making such stupid allegations and claims? Why are you still around.

Please present us with a valid reason why you should be the one to pass judgements and ridicule anyone who doesnt share the same pathetic views as your ignorant self?

Please.

Because he has made his mind up that Ablett escaped charges because of who he was and the facts don't count according to bluesman

Bluesman, everyone involved in investigating this case would have done their job no differently if it was you or I in the room with Alisha that night. The fact that it was an ex AFL player wouldn't allow them to change what they found.

 

[Diego]

Well done to the Mods for doing their job

You are the one who should be banned for some of the things you have said that could see BigFooty in trouble.

I have every right to state that i have no sympathy for Ablett getting bashed.
that is my opinion and i stand by it .

Of course you do we are all entitled to an opinion, like arse__holes everyone has one, except in your case you havent cleaned yours in a long time so all that spurts out is dirty crap.

that is my opinion and i stand by it .
If other posters don't like it then tough luck.

Maybe you should you follow your own advice eh.

I can understand where the Geelong posters vitriol is coming from ..after all the man is a god to them and most consider him a hero ..but MEH to me he is a low life .

What have you done with your life? At least he played footy at the highest level and as wrong as it sounds, the time he was playing he made people happy, albiet not in his later life.

What have you done apart from sit on your arse and try to be a hero on an internet forum passing judgements on people lives?