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Academy Watch

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Issac Conway
DOB 29/5/95 Ht 183 Wt 85

Okay it’s time for a good old fashion rant. I am absolutely disgusted with the Lions and the way they have handled Conway this year and the Academy in general. The Academy should be the Lions’ biggest competitive advantages instead it is an afterthought. We should be pouring money into getting the really good coaches involved, training up the local coaches and getting the kids as often as we can to work on their games. At the moment we are underinvesting in local talent and the academy with the effect being that we are flushing the money we do spend down the toilet. If you are going to do something do it right you clowns. This year there was not one top aged Academy kid who showed improvement in the skills that would get them drafted. NOT F@$%&G ONE. That is a not a co-incidence and is an indictment on those heading up the Academy. The way Conway was handled is a prime example of how appalling the development of these kids is being handled.

As strange as it may sound to supporters of other teams the Lions have a weak recruiting presence in Queensland. Our recruitment and list management team are based out of Victoria, WA and SA and the Queensland guys are a very quiet voice at the table or alternatively are a tougher judges than the guys in other States. Year afte year Collingwood pluck the best talent from under our noses and year in year out we do nothing about it. For years too the best way to avoid being drafted has been to play for the Lions reserves team. The Lions are a prime example of the saying that familiarity breeds contempt. We play kids out of position and have the listed players ignore them on the field and wonder why they don’t perform.

This year the brilliant minds that make up our Academy (and by default coach the Qld team) decided it would be a great idea to play Conway as a back pocket sometime HBFer. WTF??? You realise he is one of the better inside mids in the upcoming draft with a relatively poor outside run and kicking skills? Apparently not. So the kid toes the line plays in the backline for Qld and regularly in that role for the Lions reserves. He plays about as well as expected but as a consequence he shows nothing of the inside game that will get him drafted. If the Lions are trying to hide him away then I would still have a problem but I would understand but the Academy morons must have forgotten to tell the recruiting geniuses because they decide to overlook him based on exposed form. Toward the end of the season he works out that the Lions are not looking out for his best interests and goes back to Aspley. He plays the last four games of the season and all the finals all the way through to the GF. From memory he was in the best every game playing in the middle of the ground and some time down back to rest. In the GF he DOMINATED the first half against the Lions reserves and was comfortably BOG. He faded in the second half but imagine what he could have done if the Lions development gurus had had an ounce of common sense and actually developed his game this year in the position he actually is likely to play in. MORONS!!!! The Lions recruitment team taking their usual approach of ignoring anything Queensland related subsequently overlook him when they are likely to get him very cheaply. IDIOTS!!! Expect a team like Collingwood to grab him the Lions supporters to ask for years why we were asleep at the wheel.

For all the Academy kids out there what is the moral of the story?

1. Do not rely on the Lions having your best interests at heart.
2. Do not rely on the program provided to you by the Lions coaches to actually improve your game.
3. Do not agree to play out of your natural position for “development” or any other reason.
4. Play for your local club in the NEAFL and stay the hell away from the Lions Reserves team especially if the Lions are going to play you out of position.

Anyway onto Conway. Conway is an inside midfielder who I think would have not been too far behind Crouch had he been handled appropriately this year. At the Champs last year I had him rated behind only Crouch of the inside mid group. Conway is a very solid unit for a junior footballer and would be as strong over the ball as anyone in this draft. He holds his feet in the contest and is very difficult to tackle with excellent strength through the hips that makes him difficult to get to the ground even in senior company. Against the Lions in the GF he flicked and stepped through a few tackles that should have seen him brought to ground.

In clearance situations what he should have been working on this year was attacking the contests. His best work is done he gets in and chases the ball but too often he concentrates on finding his man and sitting with them looking whilst things develop. He should have been instructed to just get in there and chase the ball and let the opposition worry about finding him. By taking a passive approach he was negating his biggest advantage. When he does get the ball his hands are pretty clean and his handballing in close is solid without being elite.

Playing at the back I thought Conway did surprisingly well defensively. He reads the ball in the air very well and takes quite a lot of intercept marks but reading it better than the forward he is on or dropping off to get to the dangerous hole. He is very strong through the body and handled small forwards easily in this regard. He is also composed at the back and does not get flustered which is an advantage given the forward pressure exerted nowerdays. He does not have the pace though or the skills to play as a small forward at AFL level.

I haven’t seen his test results but I would expect him to not be particularly quick over the 20m but I would be surprised if he tested slower than Crouch and Cripps who are two of the best inside mids this year and I expect to be highly drafted. I would also expect him to go faster than Bontempelli who tested surprisingly slowly.

Endurance is probably a justifiable concern for Conway. Last year I thought he looked pretty good from an endurance point of view but this year he seems not as good for some reason. Any sensible development program for him this year should have had him fining down and running plenty of miles to build his tank. Unfortunately if results are any indication it seems the opposite is true. When he is in the midfield his spread is quite poor and he fades out of games too much. I liked that he ran himself into the ground in the first half of the GF and if he maintains that kind of approach his endurance base and gut running ability will increase.

Last year his skills were poor but this year I think there has been a noticeable improvement particularly with his kicking. There is still quite a bit to go but he pinpoints a lot more passes now than at this time last year and he has flattened out his kicks. He is still prone to the occasionally loopy pass but he has cut down on these a lot and is heading in the right direction. His kicking at this stage is better than Crouch’s.

Overall I think Conway can feel justifiably aggrieved with the way he has been handled this year. I hope a team picks him up as I think he has a lot of potential as an inside mid.
 
:thumbsu:. Good Rant. I think this echos the thoughts of many of us. I'm baffled when I try to understand why the two most promising prospects 12 months ago, weren't even nominated. I'll be spewing if our academy becomes a drafting source that benefits our competitors more than us.
 
While I understand why we didn't nominate Conway and Tickner I was disappointed with what I have heard about their development this year. I have always worried that with these academies that if we get them too early they may look good at under 18 level but not have a high ceiling talent-wise.
 
Given our present circumstances, no, repeat no, Queenslander should escape our close consideration.

Some really valuable insights above from someone who obviously knows his stuff.
 

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Issac Conway
DOB 29/5/95 Ht 183 Wt 85

Okay it’s time for a good old fashion rant. I am absolutely disgusted with the Lions and the way they have handled Conway this year and the Academy in general. The Academy should be the Lions’ biggest competitive advantages instead it is an afterthought. We should be pouring money into getting the really good coaches involved, training up the local coaches and getting the kids as often as we can to work on their games. At the moment we are underinvesting in local talent and the academy with the effect being that we are flushing the money we do spend down the toilet. If you are going to do something do it right you clowns. This year there was not one top aged Academy kid who showed improvement in the skills that would get them drafted. NOT F@$%&G ONE. That is a not a co-incidence and is an indictment on those heading up the Academy. The way Conway was handled is a prime example of how appalling the development of these kids is being handled.

As strange as it may sound to supporters of other teams the Lions have a weak recruiting presence in Queensland. Our recruitment and list management team are based out of Victoria, WA and SA and the Queensland guys are a very quiet voice at the table or alternatively are a tougher judges than the guys in other States. Year afte year Collingwood pluck the best talent from under our noses and year in year out we do nothing about it. For years too the best way to avoid being drafted has been to play for the Lions reserves team. The Lions are a prime example of the saying that familiarity breeds contempt. We play kids out of position and have the listed players ignore them on the field and wonder why they don’t perform.

This year the brilliant minds that make up our Academy (and by default coach the Qld team) decided it would be a great idea to play Conway as a back pocket sometime HBFer. WTF??? You realise he is one of the better inside mids in the upcoming draft with a relatively poor outside run and kicking skills? Apparently not. So the kid toes the line plays in the backline for Qld and regularly in that role for the Lions reserves. He plays about as well as expected but as a consequence he shows nothing of the inside game that will get him drafted. If the Lions are trying to hide him away then I would still have a problem but I would understand but the Academy morons must have forgotten to tell the recruiting geniuses because they decide to overlook him based on exposed form. Toward the end of the season he works out that the Lions are not looking out for his best interests and goes back to Aspley. He plays the last four games of the season and all the finals all the way through to the GF. From memory he was in the best every game playing in the middle of the ground and some time down back to rest. In the GF he DOMINATED the first half against the Lions reserves and was comfortably BOG. He faded in the second half but imagine what he could have done if the Lions development gurus had had an ounce of common sense and actually developed his game this year in the position he actually is likely to play in. MORONS!!!! The Lions recruitment team taking their usual approach of ignoring anything Queensland related subsequently overlook him when they are likely to get him very cheaply. IDIOTS!!! Expect a team like Collingwood to grab him the Lions supporters to ask for years why we were asleep at the wheel.

For all the Academy kids out there what is the moral of the story?

1. Do not rely on the Lions having your best interests at heart.
2. Do not rely on the program provided to you by the Lions coaches to actually improve your game.
3. Do not agree to play out of your natural position for “development” or any other reason.
4. Play for your local club in the NEAFL and stay the hell away from the Lions Reserves team especially if the Lions are going to play you out of position.

Anyway onto Conway. Conway is an inside midfielder who I think would have not been too far behind Crouch had he been handled appropriately this year. At the Champs last year I had him rated behind only Crouch of the inside mid group. Conway is a very solid unit for a junior footballer and would be as strong over the ball as anyone in this draft. He holds his feet in the contest and is very difficult to tackle with excellent strength through the hips that makes him difficult to get to the ground even in senior company. Against the Lions in the GF he flicked and stepped through a few tackles that should have seen him brought to ground.

In clearance situations what he should have been working on this year was attacking the contests. His best work is done he gets in and chases the ball but too often he concentrates on finding his man and sitting with them looking whilst things develop. He should have been instructed to just get in there and chase the ball and let the opposition worry about finding him. By taking a passive approach he was negating his biggest advantage. When he does get the ball his hands are pretty clean and his handballing in close is solid without being elite.

Playing at the back I thought Conway did surprisingly well defensively. He reads the ball in the air very well and takes quite a lot of intercept marks but reading it better than the forward he is on or dropping off to get to the dangerous hole. He is very strong through the body and handled small forwards easily in this regard. He is also composed at the back and does not get flustered which is an advantage given the forward pressure exerted nowerdays. He does not have the pace though or the skills to play as a small forward at AFL level.

I haven’t seen his test results but I would expect him to not be particularly quick over the 20m but I would be surprised if he tested slower than Crouch and Cripps who are two of the best inside mids this year and I expect to be highly drafted. I would also expect him to go faster than Bontempelli who tested surprisingly slowly.

Endurance is probably a justifiable concern for Conway. Last year I thought he looked pretty good from an endurance point of view but this year he seems not as good for some reason. Any sensible development program for him this year should have had him fining down and running plenty of miles to build his tank. Unfortunately if results are any indication it seems the opposite is true. When he is in the midfield his spread is quite poor and he fades out of games too much. I liked that he ran himself into the ground in the first half of the GF and if he maintains that kind of approach his endurance base and gut running ability will increase.

Last year his skills were poor but this year I think there has been a noticeable improvement particularly with his kicking. There is still quite a bit to go but he pinpoints a lot more passes now than at this time last year and he has flattened out his kicks. He is still prone to the occasionally loopy pass but he has cut down on these a lot and is heading in the right direction. His kicking at this stage is better than Crouch’s.

Overall I think Conway can feel justifiably aggrieved with the way he has been handled this year. I hope a team picks him up as I think he has a lot of potential as an inside mid.
Couldn't agree more
 
I have to agree with Quigley. I think Conway was played out of position way too often and Tickner was unlucky with injuries at critical times. Both these kids as well as possibly one or two others (Rutledge and Bertoli- Simmons) from the Academy would undoubtably be able to stand up to senior footy and deserve every chance to show what proven talent they have. Tickner didn't spend 2 years in the AIS because he had little talent! Conway wasn't one of the best for Aspley in the final series because he has little talent! Wake up and give these Q'landers a spot they deserve.
 
Cain Tickner
DOB 17/4/95 Ht 194 Wt 91

See my rant in regards to the Lions Academy. Most of that is applicable for Tickner as well. One difference is that I actually advocate playing Tickner in his non-preferred position. Tickner got the NEAFL Rising Star nomination in round 17 playing in defence. In the interview on the NEAFL website I got the distinct impression that he prefers to play up forward. I mentioned last year and I continue to think that Tickner will be a defender at AFL level. I was at the game against WA last year which Qld won on the back of 5 goals from Tickner but I just think his skill set is more suited to down back. With the Lions now in charge of a forward turned AA defender I am very surprised he was not taken by the Lions as an academy player.

Tickner has been the Lions highest profile academy since he made the Australian under 15 schools side. I have been following him as much as I could since then and with him being an AIS player as both a bottom ager and top ager I just could not see how we would overlook him.

I have seen him a few times this year and in truth he has never seemed quite right. At the Champs he had heavy strapping on his knees and according to the Qld coach he has suffered from knee tendonitis and ankle problems for at least the first half of the year. He is a very professional kid who seems to do all the things necessary to make it and I am sure he did all the recovery stuff recommended but like I said he just did not quite look fully fit even when he was playing well.

Tickner started the Champs up forward before moving down back for the last couple of games. He averaged 16 disposals a game which is pretty good for a key position player in a shortened quarters game. I only got to one Qld game this year and that was the game against NSW where he played down back and I thought he was excellent. In a year where the KPD talent is few and far between I am very surprised more teams didn't invite him to the Combine to get a look at him.

Tickner is not a guy who has any particular stand out trait but he is just a good all around player who has worked hard to ensure there are not stand out weaknesses either. He is a good, smart footballer who does his job well. He has a strong body and uses that well in contested situations. He is a thumping tackler and probably the best in this draft and certainly the best amongst the key position talent. One of my favourite things from last year's Champs was a passage of play against Metro I think it was. Tickner was a bottom ager and thumped one of the mediums from Metro and the ball spilled free. The Metro kid jumped up and pushed Tickner and carried on a bit before following the play 50 metres or so away. Tickner didn't react and followed him to the contest and when the same guy got the ball he buried him and then got up and carried on no fuss. The Metro guy took his time getting up from that one. It was a serious laugh out loud moment for me.

One of my big question marks with Tickner has been his explosiveness. I was told that the testing he did earlier in the year bore this observation out with him being particularly slow over the first 5 metres and that is pretty much where he gave away the time. After that though his pace was actually pretty decent so the problem just seemed to be getting going. The knee problems he has been having might well be a reason for this. It will be interesting to have a look at his State Screening results to see if there has been an improvement in this. Its worth noting that even if there was no improvement his times are pretty consistent with the likes of Fort and Pearce who are a good chance to be picked up. In the NSW game I had a close look at him live and I thought his pace actually seemed pretty good. He had no trouble handling the NSW forward and was able to go step for step with the forwards he was matched up on. If he can keep on the move I think he should be fine for pace with potential upside if his leg problems have been affecting his explosiveness.

Up forward he leads hard but seems to have trouble getting separation. Down back he reads the game well and the forwards he matched up on were the ones seeming to have trouble getting separation. Above his head his hands are reasonable but are not in the elite category. He reads the ball reasonably well but I would not put him in the elite category for a forward. As a back though he would be in the top 5 or so of the key position prospects. He certainly does not need a forward to be leading him to the ball when he is playing in defence. I think he shows excellent judgement when to leave his man and chase the ball. If he goes he will impact the contest and usually in a very positive way. He is a very good judge of when to mark and when spoil and his defensive instincts seem really good to me.

Skills wise I would say he is efficient by both hand and foot. He does not have huge hurt factor but he hits his targets and makes good decisions. He tends to play a bit within himself and doesn't bite off too much. He does not have huge penetration nor is does lack it. He is composed with the ball in hand and after he gives off he will run hard and present as an option to be used again. At the Champs he linked pretty well for a big guy.

If I was to compare him to anyone it would be Darren Glass. Tickner is a professional kid who will do what it takes to succeed. He won't be flashy but he will be effective and I will be surprised if he doesn't make it as an AFL player.

One of the issues that will probably be held against him is his lack of disposals in senior company. When I looked at the Lions Reserves stats he always seemed to finish with less than 10 disposals. A fair bit of this was him not really impose himself on the game and but a fair portion could also be attributed to the senior players simply refusing to use him for some reason. Being a junior key position the listed players tended to ignore him as an option on the park even when he was open. I watched a couple of the Lions reserves games on tape and although he didn't get much of it he seemed composed when he had it.
 
I honestly would not be surprised if they were focused on next years academy group rather than this year. Half the Queensland team were bottom age blokes. (May be an exaggeration) But I still think next year there are 3 potentially 4 blokes that really excite me. And I did hear that the Queensland team this year was more of a development for next year who are tipped to dominate the div 2 carnival.
 
A 16 year old to watch out for is Ben Keays. I think someone mentioned he won the best player for QLD 16s this year. A talented, left-footed midfielder also from Morningside should get the gig in the 18s team next year.


Know personally this kid and do not rate him, general consensus of most who play with him. Hes got talent yes but also would rather play for himself rather than the team, cannot find his own ball do not rate him one bit.[/quote]


You obviously don't know the kid.

Someone posted a website on the Drafts and Trading board under the 16's thread with a link to the top 5 stat getters from each team. He averaged something like 23 touches a game which put him only behind the division 2 medallist Callum Mills in overall disposals...

Also heard he runs a 15 beep test at age 16, hasn't missed a state team either since under 12's.

I think you have watched him at club level and I would agree that he perhaps doesn't apply himself to his fullest extent at the lower level but the building blocks are certainly there. To say that you don't rate him at all is a bit of an oafish statement considering he has proved himself at higher levels.
 

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I honestly would not be surprised if they were focused on next years academy group rather than this year. Half the Queensland team were bottom age blokes. (May be an exaggeration) But I still think next year there are 3 potentially 4 blokes that really excite me. And I did hear that the Queensland team this year was more of a development for next year who are tipped to dominate the div 2 carnival.

There are some good prospects next year for sure but at this time last year we thought the same with this group and last years under 18 team was dominated by this year's group. The development has not been there and that should worry the next group as well. This group dominated the under 16 Champs as well it should be remembered and a couple of years later they were right back with the field.

Next year I really like Dawson, Hammelmann and Kristelly with Cameron-Reeves and Stevenson not far behind. So a good group of top talent there.

Keays I will be interested in seeing how he goes next year with the older group. I thought the under 16 group were not so flash this year and Keays was good but I am not sold yet. Admittedly I have seen a grand total of one game of him playing in.
 
Know personally this kid and do not rate him, general consensus of most who play with him. Hes got talent yes but also would rather play for himself rather than the team, cannot find his own ball do not rate him one bit.


You obviously don't know the kid.

Someone posted a website on the Drafts and Trading board under the 16's thread with a link to the top 5 stat getters from each team. He averaged something like 23 touches a game which put him only behind the division 2 medallist Callum Mills in overall disposals...

Also heard he runs a 15 beep test at age 16, hasn't missed a state team either since under 12's.

I think you have watched him at club level and I would agree that he perhaps doesn't apply himself to his fullest extent at the lower level but the building blocks are certainly there. To say that you don't rate him at all is a bit of an oafish statement considering he has proved himself at higher levels.[/quote]


Not just watched, played with and against him. He reads the play better than anyone I have ever met in my life. Kids got oceans of talent but I have seen even more talented piss it up against a wall.
 
There are some good prospects next year for sure but at this time last year we thought the same with this group and last years under 18 team was dominated by this year's group. The development has not been there and that should worry the next group as well. This group dominated the under 16 Champs as well it should be remembered and a couple of years later they were right back with the field.

Next year I really like Dawson, Hammelmann and Kristelly with Cameron-Reeves and Stevenson not far behind. So a good group of top talent there.

Keays I will be interested in seeing how he goes next year with the older group. I thought the under 16 group were not so flash this year and Keays was good but I am not sold yet. Admittedly I have seen a grand total of one game of him playing in.[/quote

Next year looks bright I can tell ya that much
 
Yeah I understand the reasoning as to why we did not nominate Conway or Tickner. But it would have been nice to see Conway play as an inside midfielder throughout the year. It's as if the club didnt want to pay too much for him and were planning on getting him on the cheap. If the club plans on nabbing him in the rookie draft, I'll be very disappointed. I personally can't see him slipping to the rookie draft.

Kid has plenty of talent. Seeing as we are facing numerous highly rated junior exiting the club, Conway needs to be picked up. 90% of our players come from interstate, so we clearly need more homegrown talent. And Conway certainly fits that category.

I can just imagine Collingwood picking him up and turning him into a very good player. Collingwood have Josh Thomas, Dayne Beams, Lachlan Keffee and Adam Oxley(looks alright). The club seriously needs to boost it's resources and focus a bit more on the Queensland boys.
 
Yeah I understand the reasoning as to why we did not nominate Conway or Tickner. But it would have been nice to see Conway play as an inside midfielder throughout the year. It's as if the club didnt want to pay too much for him and were planning on getting him on the cheap. If the club plans on nabbing him in the rookie draft, I'll be very disappointed. I personally can't see him slipping to the rookie draft.

Kid has plenty of talent. Seeing as we are facing numerous highly rated junior exiting the club, Conway needs to be picked up. 90% of our players come from interstate, so we clearly need more homegrown talent. And Conway certainly fits that category.

I can just imagine Collingwood picking him up and turning him into a very good player. Collingwood have Josh Thomas, Dayne Beams, Lachlan Keffee and Adam Oxley(looks alright). The club seriously needs to boost it's resources and focus a bit more on the Queensland boys.

This is my greatest fear in that these boys will be picked up by others and will become players at AFL standard and they were right under our noses and had first dibs at them. Just hope that we might use a later pick or they get to us in the rookie.
 

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A bit belated but congratulations to Liam Dawson and Matt Hammelmann for being retained in the AIS Academy for their second year. Great achievement and I hope we see a lot of them in the future.

No-one from this year's under 16 group made it into the AIS. Blanket from the GC academy was the only Qlder picked.
 
A bit belated but congratulations to Liam Dawson and Matt Hammelmann for being retained in the AIS Academy for their second year. Great achievement and I hope we see a lot of them in the future.

No-one from this year's under 16 group made it into the AIS. Blanket from the GC academy was the only Qlder picked.


welcome back quigs, doyou have any sort of info on dawson and hammelmann? strengths and weaknesses and prospective draft range? thanks
 
welcome back quigs, doyou have any sort of info on dawson and hammelmann? strengths and weaknesses and prospective draft range? thanks


I can give you some info on Hammelmann. Hammelmann is an exceptional kick on goal, hes got really strong hands and a really good footy brain. One thing I notice he needs to improve is his physical presence, for a big unit (still growing) he does not throw his body around and crash too many packs. If he can find that aggressiveness he will pick improve that much more. I expect him to go probably in the second/third round if Brisbane do not take him I would be surprised as we have first chance at him and at 196cm and still growing as well as around 85kg mark with a lot more to fill out he looks real promising. He is also pretty quiet on the field but he works hard and trains hard. Nice kid level headed very humble hes got the drive and no negative off field problems. Also their have been 2 or 3 times he has found his voice and become a real leader on the field so he does have leadership potential as his confidence grows.
 
I expect him to go probably in the second/third round if Brisbane do not take him I would be surprised as we have first chance at him and at 196cm and still growing as well as around 85kg mark with a lot more to fill out he looks real promising.

From afar he looks like he has a frame that'll actually hold some bulk too (as opposed to Leuie / Big Beau etc). Do you think that's a fair assessment?
 
From afar he looks like he has a frame that'll actually hold some bulk too (as opposed to Leuie / Big Beau etc). Do you think that's a fair assessment?


He has bulked up a lot and I think he should be able to get to the 95kg range give or take how much more growth he has left in him. Hes a Queenslander AIS obviously rate him, personally be stupid not to give him a crack especially if we can get him for nothing. If he turns out to be a star, which I think he has the work ethic to become then it will do wonders for the club being a local Brisbane boy and all.
 

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