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Possibly in reference to this.


Wentworth-HighAnxiety.jpg
 
If this was in reference to my post, I had picked up the reference and (obliquely) was completing the chorus. Clearly not the slam-dunk joke I thought it was going to be ;).
Just keep rollin' with it!
 
so for those in the know i.e. reserves and junior watchers, would the following be a reasonable list of players to watch in the upcoming champs from our Academy?
  • Dec Watson
  • Allison
  • Rolls
  • Mason

Any others draftable types?
 
AFL set to review controversial GWS Giants academy system

JAY CLARK AND SAM LANDSBERGER Herald Sun

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"Not wise to jump off Giants"
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THE AFL is set to review the controversial Greater Western Sydney academy system which angry clubs believe will bulletproof their list for the next decade.

The Herald Sun understands the league will soon begin a thorough analysis of the broad Giants zone that is set to deliver the booming club another five top-30 talents this year.

AFL operations manager Mark Evans told the Herald Sun on Tuesday the league would monitor the situation in the wake of what scouts believe is a considerable spike in Riverina talent.

“As we have with father-son qualifications and priority picks, we are always open to review these sorts of programs and rules to makes sure it achieves its objectives in the appropriate way,” Evans said.

Furious club officials said they would not be able to compete against the Giants if immediate action was not taken to cap their number of academy products, or shrink the zone.

Victorian recruiters want the footy fertile Riverina area in particular excluded from the massive GWS special-interest territory.
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Dylan Shiel was signed by the Giants as underage recruit. Picture: Getty
Players from rural NSW, who board at Victorian schools and play in Victorian TAC Cup clubs, are still tied to GWS and can be drafted at a 20 per cent discount.

One recruiter said “this is the thing that makes us most angry.”

“GWS didn’t know some of these guys even existed, and now they are falling in their laps,” he said.

“How much did they (Giants) contribute to their development? Consider that.”

The backlash from clubs has increased in recent weeks, following the emergence of two more gun GWS-bound big men, Todd Marshall and Max Lynch.

Evans said the GWS zone had not traditionally delivered a high number of top-end talents when the list concessions were established, but acknowledged that the dynamic may have changed.

“The rules were established with the support of the clubs after reviewing the historical data,” Evans said.

“NSW and Queensland had not traditionally provided a lot of talented players. And even the southern part of New South Wales, the Riverina area, was historically a low talent yield.

“If we now get to a position where we are starting to produce more talent from New South Wales and Queensland then that is a good thing. It’s a good problem to have.

“If it means there needs to be a review to make sure those objectives are still being met in the right way, we have always been open to doing that.”

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The Giants had first crack at spearhead Jeremy Cameron. Picture: Getty
The vast zone is the fifth significant free kick awarded to the Giants, which were ticked off by rivals.

At the club’s inception the Giants signed stars Jeremy Cameron, Dylan Shiel and Adam Treloar with exclusive access to 10 of the country’s hottest 17-year-olds.

They were allocated picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the 2011 draft as well as the first eight rookie selections.

The Giants were also afforded an extra $1 million in its 2012-14 salary cap to poach established talent and maintain a list of up to 50 players.

And, unlike rival expansion club Gold Coast, GWS could pick four underage stars to trade — offloading rights to Jesse Hogan, Jack Martin, Jaeger O’Meara and Brad Crouch to further their draft riches.

The AFL wrote to clubs last month warning that if the northern clubs breached new rules they would risk losing their academy stars.

At the start of each season GWS, Sydney, Gold Coast and Brisbane are required to submit development plans for their brightest talents.

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“GWS didn’t know some of these guys even existed, and now they are falling in their laps.”

AFL recruiter
940141-right.gif

Some clubs called on the AFL to abolish all talent academies.

“The answer is uncompromising drafting once and for all. It’s OK for Victorian and West Australian kids to move, it’s just ridiculous,” one list manager said.

Others believe academies are fair, but only to unearth kids who would have otherwise been lost to rival sports, such as Sydney’s Isaac Heeney.

“If they get kids from (rugby areas) Orange and Bathurst and Griffith — go for it. Get those kids and put time in to expand the pool and put more time into Canberra,” a recruiter said.

“They can claim 19-year-olds as well, like when they got Jack Steele and Lachie Tiziani this year. If you have a chance you take it, if you don’t they should be available to the whole pool.”

One scout was bemused at the Giants’ sudden infatuation with late bloomer Marshall, who is in this year’s academy.

“He was overseas playing cricket, comes home, starts playing footy, looks like an absolute star and they can just get him for nothing. It’s ridiculous.”

The 4-2 Giants are yet to blood 2015 draftees Jacob Hopper (pick 7), Matthew Kennedy (13), Harrison Himmelberg (16) and 2014 selections Jarrod Pickett (4) and Paul Ahern (7).

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Adam Treloar and Taylor Adams both started their careers at GWS. Picture: Michael Klein
THE FIVE FREE KICKS

How the AFL created a Giant monster with these start-up list concessions.

ACADEMY ANGUISH

GWS has exclusive access to all players from its New South Wales zone via its academy. The club receives a 20 per cent discount (or 197 points after pick No. 18) on its academy picks.

JACKPOT 17s

Picked 10 17-year-olds born between January — April 1993, headlined by stars Jeremy Cameron, Dylan Shiel and Adam Treloar.

2011 DRAFT BONANZA


GWS was allocated picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the 2011 draft and the first eight selections in the 2011 rookie draft.

FOUR GOLDEN EGGS

GWS could pick four players born between January-April 1994 and 1995 to trade. They were Jesse Hogan, Jack Martin, Jaeger O’Meara and Brad Crouch.

CASH STASH

GWS was given an extra $1 million in its 2012-14 salary caps to poach established talent and maintain a list of up to 50 players.

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Sydney plucked boom recruit Callum Mills from North Shore. Picture: Phil Hillyard
THE FURORE

CLUB 1

“Credit to Sydney, they got Callum Mills out of North Shore, which is not AFL heartland. GWS is pulling them out of Albury and Wagga, which is AFL heartland, so it’s laughable.

“And when you talk (with others) in the market, they (GWS) haven’t done a lot (development) with these kids.

“(Will) Setterfield is from Caulfield Grammar and (Jacob) Hopper is from St Pats and it goes on and on. It is near impossible to compete.”

CLUB 2

“They (GWS) can get up to nine players (out of NSW) this year, which may be the equivalent to WA and SA’s draft talent combined.

“So the Giants not only have exclusive rights to them (players), they get them at a discounted rate, it’s Harvey Norman.

“So, instead of using pick No. 5, they can use, say, pick No. 8. They (AFL) have to reconsider the concessions they give them (GWS).”

CLUB 3

“It’s a joke, it it’s embarrassing and very frustrating. They’ve got about 10 kids they (GWS) will get and there might be only six kids coming out of South Australia this year.

“The answer is uncompromising drafting once and for all. It’s OK for Victorian and West Australian kids to move, it’s just ridiculous.

CLUB 4

“They have heaps this year — and they’re guns. A few of them are A-graders, too — first-rounders.

“Macreadie, Setterfield ... they’re in a very, very good position. The depth of talent, geez.”

CLUB 5

“The Giants have just rubbed it in everyone’s faces by doing so little work, putting in so little effort and then taking all the rewards.

“I’d get rid of all the academies, but if they have to have one it should be in Sydney’s west, not broader areas.

“The level of anger is high because we can see the academy players coming through in the next couple of years.

CLUB 6

“(Todd) Marshall was overseas playing cricket, comes home, starts playing footy, looks like an absolute star and they can just get him for nothing. It’s ridiculous.

“If they get kids from (rugby areas) Orange and Bathurst and Griffith — go for it. Get those kids and put time in to expand the pool. Put more time into Canberra.

“They can claim 19-year-olds as well, like when they got Jack Steele and Lachie Tiziani this year. If you have a chance you take it, if you don’t they should be available to the whole pool.

CLUB 7

“They’re not putting enough into those kids because they know they’re natural football kids.

“All they have to do now is show development plans for them and in the past they didn’t even have to talk to them until their draft year.”
 
AFL set to review controversial GWS Giants academy system

JAY CLARK AND SAM LANDSBERGER Herald Sun

news-plus.svg


"Not wise to jump off Giants"
external

origin:video_integrator.RoM285MzE6drXEZCEZrwlBVbX58E8vmv




THE AFL is set to review the controversial Greater Western Sydney academy system which angry clubs believe will bulletproof their list for the next decade.

The Herald Sun understands the league will soon begin a thorough analysis of the broad Giants zone that is set to deliver the booming club another five top-30 talents this year.

AFL operations manager Mark Evans told the Herald Sun on Tuesday the league would monitor the situation in the wake of what scouts believe is a considerable spike in Riverina talent.

“As we have with father-son qualifications and priority picks, we are always open to review these sorts of programs and rules to makes sure it achieves its objectives in the appropriate way,” Evans said.

Furious club officials said they would not be able to compete against the Giants if immediate action was not taken to cap their number of academy products, or shrink the zone.

Victorian recruiters want the footy fertile Riverina area in particular excluded from the massive GWS special-interest territory.
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642c17535aea8f8b1b5282e6a2e3f995

Dylan Shiel was signed by the Giants as underage recruit. Picture: Getty
Players from rural NSW, who board at Victorian schools and play in Victorian TAC Cup clubs, are still tied to GWS and can be drafted at a 20 per cent discount.

One recruiter said “this is the thing that makes us most angry.”

“GWS didn’t know some of these guys even existed, and now they are falling in their laps,” he said.

“How much did they (Giants) contribute to their development? Consider that.”

The backlash from clubs has increased in recent weeks, following the emergence of two more gun GWS-bound big men, Todd Marshall and Max Lynch.

Evans said the GWS zone had not traditionally delivered a high number of top-end talents when the list concessions were established, but acknowledged that the dynamic may have changed.

“The rules were established with the support of the clubs after reviewing the historical data,” Evans said.

“NSW and Queensland had not traditionally provided a lot of talented players. And even the southern part of New South Wales, the Riverina area, was historically a low talent yield.

“If we now get to a position where we are starting to produce more talent from New South Wales and Queensland then that is a good thing. It’s a good problem to have.

“If it means there needs to be a review to make sure those objectives are still being met in the right way, we have always been open to doing that.”

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The Giants had first crack at spearhead Jeremy Cameron. Picture: Getty
The vast zone is the fifth significant free kick awarded to the Giants, which were ticked off by rivals.

At the club’s inception the Giants signed stars Jeremy Cameron, Dylan Shiel and Adam Treloar with exclusive access to 10 of the country’s hottest 17-year-olds.

They were allocated picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the 2011 draft as well as the first eight rookie selections.

The Giants were also afforded an extra $1 million in its 2012-14 salary cap to poach established talent and maintain a list of up to 50 players.

And, unlike rival expansion club Gold Coast, GWS could pick four underage stars to trade — offloading rights to Jesse Hogan, Jack Martin, Jaeger O’Meara and Brad Crouch to further their draft riches.

The AFL wrote to clubs last month warning that if the northern clubs breached new rules they would risk losing their academy stars.

At the start of each season GWS, Sydney, Gold Coast and Brisbane are required to submit development plans for their brightest talents.

940050-left.gif
“GWS didn’t know some of these guys even existed, and now they are falling in their laps.”

AFL recruiter

940141-right.gif

Some clubs called on the AFL to abolish all talent academies.

“The answer is uncompromising drafting once and for all. It’s OK for Victorian and West Australian kids to move, it’s just ridiculous,” one list manager said.

Others believe academies are fair, but only to unearth kids who would have otherwise been lost to rival sports, such as Sydney’s Isaac Heeney.

“If they get kids from (rugby areas) Orange and Bathurst and Griffith — go for it. Get those kids and put time in to expand the pool and put more time into Canberra,” a recruiter said.

“They can claim 19-year-olds as well, like when they got Jack Steele and Lachie Tiziani this year. If you have a chance you take it, if you don’t they should be available to the whole pool.”

One scout was bemused at the Giants’ sudden infatuation with late bloomer Marshall, who is in this year’s academy.

“He was overseas playing cricket, comes home, starts playing footy, looks like an absolute star and they can just get him for nothing. It’s ridiculous.”

The 4-2 Giants are yet to blood 2015 draftees Jacob Hopper (pick 7), Matthew Kennedy (13), Harrison Himmelberg (16) and 2014 selections Jarrod Pickett (4) and Paul Ahern (7).

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Adam Treloar and Taylor Adams both started their careers at GWS. Picture: Michael Klein
THE FIVE FREE KICKS

How the AFL created a Giant monster with these start-up list concessions.

ACADEMY ANGUISH

GWS has exclusive access to all players from its New South Wales zone via its academy. The club receives a 20 per cent discount (or 197 points after pick No. 18) on its academy picks.

JACKPOT 17s

Picked 10 17-year-olds born between January — April 1993, headlined by stars Jeremy Cameron, Dylan Shiel and Adam Treloar.

2011 DRAFT BONANZA


GWS was allocated picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the 2011 draft and the first eight selections in the 2011 rookie draft.

FOUR GOLDEN EGGS

GWS could pick four players born between January-April 1994 and 1995 to trade. They were Jesse Hogan, Jack Martin, Jaeger O’Meara and Brad Crouch.

CASH STASH

GWS was given an extra $1 million in its 2012-14 salary caps to poach established talent and maintain a list of up to 50 players.

1a5bacdd6ab52aaafb3744bbfa970dc0

Sydney plucked boom recruit Callum Mills from North Shore. Picture: Phil Hillyard
THE FURORE

CLUB 1

“Credit to Sydney, they got Callum Mills out of North Shore, which is not AFL heartland. GWS is pulling them out of Albury and Wagga, which is AFL heartland, so it’s laughable.

“And when you talk (with others) in the market, they (GWS) haven’t done a lot (development) with these kids.

“(Will) Setterfield is from Caulfield Grammar and (Jacob) Hopper is from St Pats and it goes on and on. It is near impossible to compete.”

CLUB 2

“They (GWS) can get up to nine players (out of NSW) this year, which may be the equivalent to WA and SA’s draft talent combined.

“So the Giants not only have exclusive rights to them (players), they get them at a discounted rate, it’s Harvey Norman.

“So, instead of using pick No. 5, they can use, say, pick No. 8. They (AFL) have to reconsider the concessions they give them (GWS).”

CLUB 3

“It’s a joke, it it’s embarrassing and very frustrating. They’ve got about 10 kids they (GWS) will get and there might be only six kids coming out of South Australia this year.

“The answer is uncompromising drafting once and for all. It’s OK for Victorian and West Australian kids to move, it’s just ridiculous.

CLUB 4

“They have heaps this year — and they’re guns. A few of them are A-graders, too — first-rounders.

“Macreadie, Setterfield ... they’re in a very, very good position. The depth of talent, geez.”

CLUB 5

“The Giants have just rubbed it in everyone’s faces by doing so little work, putting in so little effort and then taking all the rewards.

“I’d get rid of all the academies, but if they have to have one it should be in Sydney’s west, not broader areas.

“The level of anger is high because we can see the academy players coming through in the next couple of years.

CLUB 6

“(Todd) Marshall was overseas playing cricket, comes home, starts playing footy, looks like an absolute star and they can just get him for nothing. It’s ridiculous.

“If they get kids from (rugby areas) Orange and Bathurst and Griffith — go for it. Get those kids and put time in to expand the pool. Put more time into Canberra.

“They can claim 19-year-olds as well, like when they got Jack Steele and Lachie Tiziani this year. If you have a chance you take it, if you don’t they should be available to the whole pool.

CLUB 7

“They’re not putting enough into those kids because they know they’re natural football kids.

“All they have to do now is show development plans for them and in the past they didn’t even have to talk to them until their draft year.”
Was listening on the latest Podcast from Twomey and Sandsrson was on saying that there also a large number of GWS academy kids again coming through next year.

Look I can totally understand their grievances and there does need to be a balance. In regards to the two blokes that have come in this year for GWS I don't think that should be allowed as for Lions Academy players have to be living in our Zone for five yrs first for us to be able to claim them in the draft. It is a bit of a head scratcher in that all of a sudden there are a glut of kids coming out of that area that not only are draft able but elite talent.

I think a cap of three academy players in the main draft for all academies and for those who fall through and are drafted by other clubs like Buzza then so be it, at least we get the cream.

In all the hysteria GWS would need to off load some talent as well to get these kids in and that doesn't get taken into account (Trelaor ring a bell Eddie?). They also have a ridiculous amount of talent running around in the NEAFL and they won't want to be doing that for more than their original two yrs after being drafted and clubs can pounce there as well.

I don't think that they should not change the Riverina area, keep developing it, have firm guidelines like living in the area for a specific period of time and only 3 academy players to be picked in the main draft.
 
http://www.afl.com.au/draft/road-to-the-draft

Ep. 5 came out today and goes for a tad over half hour.

No Lions related news until the 21 minute mark. Brenton Sanderson goes on to agree with Cal Twomey that 2017 could be a Superdraft!

Re. Ballenden; said the Lions had done a great job developing him and that he'd probably end up over 200cm, a KPF who can also ruck and would end up an Elite AFL talent :)

Brenton stated that QLD has a team choc-full of talent and that they'd beat the Rams this weekend. Cal disagreed.
 

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For all of the Vics complaining about the academies they need to take a look at this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChhtWR1U4AAxIFG.jpg

From brett Anderson's twitter the above is a "Snapshot of players picked in top 30 from NSW & Qld in 2000-2012 drafts & what academy they'd be under now..."

Goes to show that we aren't gifted young stars. We develop them and without the academy they probably wouldn't even become AFL players like Heeney and Ballenden who both most likely would have chosen Rugby.
 
For all of the Vics complaining about the academies they need to take a look at this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChhtWR1U4AAxIFG.jpg

From brett Anderson's twitter the above is a "Snapshot of players picked in top 30 from NSW & Qld in 2000-2012 drafts & what academy they'd be under now..."

Goes to show that we aren't gifted young stars. We develop them and without the academy they probably wouldn't even become AFL players like Heeney and Ballenden who both most likely would have chosen Rugby.
How many stars came out of the Northern states before the academy? Riewoldt and Beams are obviously 2. McVeigh is also very handy. Then you have the likes of Koschitzke, Charman, Hale, Roberts-Thompson who were all handy players on their day. Other than that not much to write home about.
 
One thing I don't understand is when fans of Victorian clubs post things like pick 5 isn't even worth that much anymore when you consider the fact that 3 academy prospects are likely to be bid on with pick 5 meaning our pick gets pushed back to pick 8. Don't they realise that the academy players are expanding the draft pool and without the academies the players wouldn't be going that high? So the club with pick 5 that gets pushed back is getting the same player they would have if the academies didn't exist...

To take last year for example, if let's say the Bombers with pick 5 bid on Hopper and Kennedy from GWS and Hipwood from us and then selected Parish with pick 8. If you take away the academies Hopper, Kennedy and Hipwood most likely wouldn't have been drafted in the top 10 if at all and therefore the Bombers would have selected the same player Parish with pick 5. It doesn't make any difference to the players they get. The only thing it does is it expands the talent pool and the Northern clubs get access to the talented Queensland and NSW players to help mitigate the go home factor which is only fair considering we spent time and money developing them and turning them into the players that they become.

Another hilarious thing I saw on the main board was a poster stating that he would like to package up some picks in the 30's to send to a club with academy players for a pick in the teens. He went onto say that the trade was fair because the team with an academy can use those picks in the 30's as points to draft their academy players meaning the multiple picks in the 30's are actually more valuable for them then the sole pick in the teens and he also said he saw examples of this happening in last years trade period which is all 100% true. The funny thing was merely 5 or so minutes later the same poster in the same thread was having a whinge about how "unfair" it is that teams can draft players rated in the top 20 with multiple later picks. He wasn't complaining 5 minutes earlier when he was commenting on how he can use that to advantage his own club...
 
The whole Riverina being a footy factory is an absolute joke. 5 players from that area were taken in the top 30 from 2000-2012 and now that 5 from that area are rated in the top 30 this year alone all of a sudden "its an absolute rort and the Giants are gifted guns from a footy factory on a silver platter ect. ect.". That is completely ignoring the fact that the academy has obviously worked wonders for players in those areas due to the hard work the Giants have spent developing these players. It is a shame the AFL is too short sighted to see this. Take away the Riverina zone and watch the number of quality draftees from that area reduce once again.
 

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The whole Riverina being a footy factory is an absolute joke. 5 players from that area were taken in the top 30 from 2000-2012 and now that 5 from that area are rated in the top 30 this year alone all of a sudden "its an absolute rort and the Giants are gifted guns from a footy factory on a silver platter ect. ect.". That is completely ignoring the fact that the academy has obviously worked wonders for players in those areas due to the hard work the Giants have spent developing these players. It is a shame the AFL is too short sighted to see this. Take away the Riverina zone and watch the number of quality draftees from that area reduce once again.
That's the contentious part - GWS actually hasn't done anything for these players. They've literally fallen in GWS' lap.
 
That's the contentious part - GWS actually hasn't done anything for these players. They've literally fallen in GWS' lap.

Sorry, not actually true. Hopper was in GWS's academy for five years. Flynn since he was 12. Kennedy was a late sign up, but that's the same with us and the other academies.
 
Sorry, not actually true. Hopper was in GWS's academy for five years. Flynn since he was 12. Kennedy was a late sign up, but that's the same with us and the other academies.
Probably not accurate for 100% of the academy members, but the influence is certainly being questioned by recruiters. Was also noted by Brett Anderson on his podcast that he had spoken to several members of the academy who said the club had minimal input
 
The whole Riverina being a footy factory is an absolute joke. 5 players from that area were taken in the top 30 from 2000-2012 and now that 5 from that area are rated in the top 30 this year alone all of a sudden "its an absolute rort and the Giants are gifted guns from a footy factory on a silver platter ect. ect.". That is completely ignoring the fact that the academy has obviously worked wonders for players in those areas due to the hard work the Giants have spent developing these players. It is a shame the AFL is too short sighted to see this. Take away the Riverina zone and watch the number of quality draftees from that area reduce once again.

Massive difference producing country level players to AFL players isn't it...any kid in Australia can play footy at some level; but to be able to be drafted to the AFL is a different story.
 
Probably not accurate for 100% of the academy members, but the influence is certainly being questioned by recruiters. Was also noted by Brett Anderson on his podcast that he had spoken to several members of the academy who said the club had minimal input

Because it's a convenient talking point as Eddie and friends throw all sorts of mud to try and get the academies nerfed (and distract from his team's performance as well), whether it's:
  • the Riverina (which wasn't producing the talent it allegedly has in spades until the introduction of the academy), or
  • the movement of academy kids into boarding schools (apparently academies should preclude schooling), or
  • signing up kids late in the piece (as all the academies have done to foster talent, even if they don't have first dibs on it - Lambert and Himmelberg for us this year fall into the latter, but IIRC one of the guys on or previously on our list signed up to the academy less than 12 months before), or
  • insufficient contact (all the boys in question had been flown up to western Sydney at different points, most had played in the NEAFL while there, but in some cases the best footy training is the one they can get to every week from home).
Basically they throw out enough talking points with limited facts backing them and people will take them at face value and run with it.

The Riverina will probably go from the GWS zone as it is imbalanced compared to the other academies, but it'll probably be a sad day for the kids there. Instead of being the next Hopper or Kennedy they get to go back to being the next rookie list prospect or have to move interstate to get a chance at the AFL. Maybe if the AFL stepped up and split the Bushrangers so that there was actually a dedicated southern NSW team so these guys didn't have to drive two hours one way from Wagga or Narrandera (Matt Kennedy's home town) to train.
 
That GWS story by Landsberg and Clark is at best, lazy, at worst, willful misrepresentation.

They have the nut of a reasonable argument in there. I don't think many of those Riverina kids are in any more danger of being lured to Rugby or Soccer than any kid in Launceston or Dandenong or Rockbank. It's an AFL area. Whether GWS have made a difference in that area is worthy to debate.

But blurring in GWS's draft concessions using pictures of Shiel and Cameron and mentioning Crouch, Hogan and O'Meara is crap. They were one-off start-up measure with no relevance whatsoever to the Academy system and shouldn't ever be bracketed together in the argument.

It's like a boy tantrumming at a younger siblings' birthday party because he didn't get any gifts.

But any knucklehead reading the headline 'Controversial GWS Academy System' and seeing photos of Dylan Shiel, Cameron, Treloar and Taylor Adams will take it as read that they are Academy 'free kicks' and grossly unfair on the rest of the competition.
 

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