Academy Watch

[Quigley]

I am sorry but you keep harping on about not playing practice games.

I played in plenty of rep sports growing up and if was very common to have selection camps where the players came in and showed what they could do. We trained our arse off, had scrimages, mini games etc and then at the end the team was selected. Occasionally there might be a possibles probables game but never did I ever see a full blown selection series after the camps (often before which lead to the squad being picked to start with). Never did I think this structure deprived me of a chance to show what I could do. Sure I felt some got an easier ride than I did but I was given a shot. Playing a couple of extra games might have been fine but I never thought it was unfair in and of itself.

I might even have been annoyed if a bloke who had bludged all through the camps and happened to play well in a one off game got picked ahead of me because I had a poor game or I had to play out of position or whatever. If they were training hard all summer the coaches would have gotten a very good look at the kids. Reward the guys who have done the work and shown the hunger or have an elite skill that can be developed. Force blokes who haven't to go away and work to get back into the team.

Additionally bringing in guys from outside the squad I think should be encouraged. Kids develop at different rates, sometimes they are spurred on by being cut to go away and really work at things and sometimes coaches make mistakes. Being able to come back into the squad should 100% be encouraged. It is crap for guys who have not been given a chance but they should similarly be able to go away and show that they deserve a game.

I have bashed the academy as much as anyone and the results prove we are not doing things right. Objectively though I think you are getting fixated on a small point which is as much a positive as a negative.

 

[Required]

I am sorry but you keep harping on about not playing practice games.

I played in plenty of rep sports growing up and if was very common to have selection camps where the players came in and showed what they could do. We trained our arse off, had scrimages, mini games etc and then at the end the team was selected. Occasionally there might be a possibles probables game but never did I ever see a full blown selection series after the camps (often before which lead to the squad being picked to start with). Never did I think this structure deprived me of a chance to show what I could do. Sure I felt some got an easier ride than I did but I was given a shot. Playing a couple of extra games might have been fine but I never thought it was unfair in and of itself.

I might even have been annoyed if a bloke who had bludged all through the camps and happened to play well in a one off game got picked ahead of me because I had a poor game or I had to play out of position or whatever. If they were training hard all summer the coaches would have gotten a very good look at the kids. Reward the guys who have done the work and shown the hunger or have an elite skill that can be developed. Force blokes who haven't to go away and work to get back into the team.

Additionally bringing in guys from outside the squad I think should be encouraged. Kids develop at different rates, sometimes they are spurred on by being cut to go away and really work at things and sometimes coaches make mistakes. Being able to come back into the squad should 100% be encouraged. It is crap for guys who have not been given a chance but they should similarly be able to go away and show that they deserve a game.

I have bashed the academy as much as anyone and the results prove we are not doing things right. Objectively though I think you are getting fixated on a small point which is as much a positive as a negative.

(1) No one chooses final squads based purely on training and athleticism. For if this squad was based on just those two metrics, they picked the wrong team. For eg;
One of the boys runs 100m in 11.21. Last year ran 20m under 2.90, elite agility, great above head and below knees, good size, kicks both feet, good speed to size ratio, (not just small and quick) 2km time trials average for position. Easily in the top 5 overall in athletic and skills metrics. But can he play? Regardless, hes nowhere to be seen. So training itself, athletic performance means shit. They arent choosing players based purely on athleticism. Nor should they.

If they arent choosing players based on athleticism or games performance, WTF was the criteria?

(2) Kids arent going away and doing stuff to get them back in. The kids they cut are the same kids doing the same thing, its just a few weeks later..they have had no time to develop. Or DID THEY PLAY WELL IN RECENT QAFL GAMES? FFS! Which again would prove there should have been games. The coaches are in reactionary mode. "You fail to plan, you plan to fail".

(3) I made the point it was a good thing that players outside the group are getting a chance.. as the academy fkd up the selection process in the 1st place. Its reactionary. Not part of a grand plan..

(4) There is no substitute for trial games when you have 100 kids to sift through. These kids are in a huge maturity development stage. They are different than they were 12 or even 6 months ago. Development and maturity is not only physical, its mental. While you can see physical maturity, You cant 'see' mental maturity, nor how it has changed their game, if you dont watch them play..

.

 

[Quigley]

So in the summer program they never did any game simulation, worked on game skill drills etc?

I expect that they certainly did and got a fair look at kids in those situations.

If you go away and prove the coaching staff were wrong then good on you and good on the coaches for recognising it. The coaches acknowledged the mistake and fixed it. Does it mean all the other selections were wrong - no.

 

[NeverEddie]

I expect that they certainly did and got a fair look at kids in those situations.

Due respect, but sorry Quigley, you are guessing. Required and I on the other hand. . . are not. They do SFA game simulation.

 

[Quigley]

Due respect, but sorry Quigley, you are guessing. Required and I on the other hand. . . are not. They do SFA game simulation.

I am guessing but I am very surprised to learn they did not do match sim and drills.

 

[Reef222]

I am guessing but I am very surprised to learn they did not do match sim and drills.

My son is in the Academy ask away and I’ll be as unbiased as I can.

 

[winged1]

As a parent, I agree with this. And what does this say about the people running the academy? . . . . that they have VERY small minds. Also, to those insinuating that the opinions of parents should somehow be discounted (as clearly all parents just think their child is the next Michael Voss!) . . .that is pretty insulting. We are actually the keenest of observers and have significant inside knowledge of what goes on on at ground level there. The dot points listed by "Required" in an earlier post are spot on and his frustrations are completely understandable . . .there is that stuff and many more head shaking things that go on.

I've said this before, academy kids are not all out there prancing around in academy gear thinking that they are the next Michael Voss and fully expecting to be drafted. The majority are just talented kids (they would not be there if they had 100% of nothing) who are hoping to become better for being part of the academy. And continuing on to play QAFL would be great.

Winged1 - you have obviously been involved in talent squads in some capacity. Is it too much to ask that, if a player is deemed good enough to make these sorts of squads (ac/met/qld etc), they then at least be given proper opportunities in actual matches and treated fairly? (the same sort of BS that we are hearing about with ac, also happens at met level and at other rep levels, with some players being treated as lesser beings while others are held up on a pedestal) If you had a kid, would you not expect them to be given equal opportunity and to have an environment that increases their confidence rather than trashing it? Parents do actually understand that players will ultimately be cut and that only a few will be drafted . . .we are not idiots. But when they are cut without having being given a fair go or having been ignored totally etc, that is pretty hard to cop.

Well they can play practice games but it is pretty pointless if they dont pay attention to them. So the concept of treated fairly in games can be extremely rubbery.

So im not talking about my kid who is going to be a late bloomer and is behind the 8 ball at the moment. But didnt work hard enough, so no problem with that. Very good players didnt go from level 1 to 2. Hell excellent players didnt even make level 1, then somebody looks at half a game for them and discounts them.

Recently there was the nth, sth, sc games. One region dominated but from what i am hearing there was equal selection from all 3 regions.

So why have games? One region is clearly stronger shouldn't they get more representation?

Others were told that they werent big enough or physically mature. Well that isnt going to change much in a couple of months.

So why have games? If you are only going to play physically mature guys. Daniel Rioli wouldn't have got a game.

Some kids absolutely slayed it in the regional games but didnt go through because minds were made up beforehand.

So why have games?

The people giving the feedback are not the people whose feedback it is. Seems strange.

Some kids selected purely on there size, despite being total liabilities once it hits the ground. I could hear the coach making excuses for them. If you are only going to pick your favourites why play games? Why go through the charade? Seriously i am thinking of one in particular, if they play league football i will run nude around the gabba.

Squad hasnt been fully announced but i know who isnt in and the concentration on certain clubs (which has been mentioned before in this thread) is frankly ....very concerning.

Only athletically testing the selected team? Arent you looking for characteristics that can lead to being a league player?

So to be clear the AFL funds the northern academies. They need to put x number through every year (boys or girls any level). Might explain some of the other decisions at other levels. It's about ticking boxes.

The concerning thing is the academy is the only pathway. If you cant make the academy sides, you cant make qld. It would be unusual to be selected from outside of the qld side or the academy nab cup(barring significant injury).

So if that sounds like im an academy apologist??? The problems are many, but they are fundamentally picking the wrong kids and that goes all the way back to level 1. Put a big red circle around talent identification.

 

[winged1]

So in the summer program they never did any game simulation, worked on game skill drills etc?

I expect that they certainly did and got a fair look at kids in those situations.

If you go away and prove the coaching staff were wrong then good on you and good on the coaches for recognising it. The coaches acknowledged the mistake and fixed it. Does it mean all the other selections were wrong - no.

It depends on the level, i didnt see much that isnt done in a div 1 club.

 

[Reef222]

Well they can play practice games but it is pretty pointless if they dont pay attention to them. So the concept of treated fairly in games can be extremely rubbery.

So im not talking about my kid who is going to be a late bloomer and is behind the 8 ball at the moment. But didnt work hard enough, so no problem with that. Very good players didnt go from level 1 to 2. Hell excellent players didnt even make level 1, then somebody looks at half a game for them and discounts them.

Recently there was the nth, sth, sc games. One region dominated but from what i am hearing there was equal selection from all 3 regions.

So why have games? One region is clearly stronger shouldn't they get more representation?

Others were told that they werent big enough or physically mature. Well that isnt going to change much in a couple of months.

So why have games? If you are only going to play physically mature guys. Daniel Rioli wouldn't have got a game.

Some kids absolutely slayed it in the regional games but didnt go through because minds were made up beforehand.

So why have games?

The people giving the feedback are not the people whose feedback it is. Seems strange.

Some kids selected purely on there size, despite being total liabilities once it hits the ground. I could hear the coach making excuses for them. If you are only going to pick your favourites why play games? Why go through the charade? Seriously i am thinking of one in particular, if they play league football i will run nude around the gabba.

Squad hasnt been fully announced but i know who isnt in and the concentration on certain clubs (which has been mentioned before in this thread) is frankly ....very concerning.

Only athletically testing the selected team? Arent you looking for characteristics that can lead to being a league player?

So to be clear the AFL funds the northern academies. They need to put x number through every year (boys or girls any level). Might explain some of the other decisions at other levels. It's about ticking boxes.

The concerning thing is the academy is the only pathway. If you cant make the academy sides, you cant make qld. It would be unusual to be selected from outside of the qld side or the academy nab cup(barring significant injury).

So if that sounds like im an academy apologist??? The problems are many, but they are fundamentally picking the wrong kids and that goes all the way back to level 1. Put a big red circle around talent identification.

Definitely no argument here I agree

 

[NeverEddie]

Definitely no argument here I agree

me too . . .in fact if there was ever a text book written called "the sort of BS that goes on during representative selections", each one of those points made by winged1 would be a chapter heading

 

[NeverEddie]

The issue being . . . The Lions Academy should be above all that. That sort of amateurish rubbish should be confined to Met trials etc

 

[winged1]

The issue being . . . The Lions Academy should be above all that. That sort of amateurish rubbish should be confined to Met trials etc

Yeah but if your kid doesnt make met teams they dont really get a look in, even if they do and they star sometimes they dont get a look in. The met system is a whole different kettle, but it also contributes to the issues. Again it comes down to talent identification.

 

[briztoon]

My son is in the Academy ask away and I’ll be as unbiased as I can.

Does the academy offer anything different and/or more advanced than QAFL or QFA clubs at any level?

 

[Reef222]

Does the academy offer anything different and/or more advanced than QAFL or QFA clubs at any level?

Honestly no, if anything QAFL tends to be more advanced . At club level the group is way more interactive with well structured positional drills.
Giving plenty of opportunity for proper game craft and the guidance to learn other positional plays.
At club level there is really no one for themselves , those looking to be “selected” it’s all about team.
An all important one is there is continual communication, player welfare follow ups at club level.
Unfortunately at Academy there is very little mental coaching, welfare checking.
I personally would say this is a major flaw in the Academy, as the game can loose a lot of very talented athletes at this age.
These boys are juggling a lot in their lives and need life coaches as well as coaches of the game.
I

 

[Reef222]

Honestly no, if anything QAFL tends to be more advanced . At club level the group is way more interactive with well structured positional drills.
Giving plenty of opportunity for proper game craft and the guidance to learn other positional plays.
At club level there is really no one for themselves , those looking to be “selected” it’s all about team.
An all important one is there is continual communication, player welfare follow ups at club level.
Unfortunately at Academy there is very little mental coaching, welfare checking.
I personally would say this is a major flaw in the Academy, as the game can loose a lot of very talented athletes at this age.
These boys are juggling a lot in their lives and need life coaches as well as coaches of the game.
I

Of course the Academy allows those boys who get “selected” exposure in limited games down south.
But with the current selection criteria there are a lot of very talented players not even getting this chance.
They have been told they are not big enough , too selfish, too flashy, don’t understand the “coaches” game. Yet are not given any feedback on things to improve these areas.
Again alot of the game is mental and if you don’t look after these kids and you give them these reasons for not being selected, even though they are very talented, turn up and put in to every training.
At this level it’s not school or park footy, to these boys it’s their lives.

 

[M Malice]

Honestly no, if anything QAFL tends to be more advanced . At club level the group is way more interactive with well structured positional drills.
Giving plenty of opportunity for proper game craft and the guidance to learn other positional plays.
At club level there is really no one for themselves , those looking to be “selected” it’s all about team.
An all important one is there is continual communication, player welfare follow ups at club level.
Unfortunately at Academy there is very little mental coaching, welfare checking.
I personally would say this is a major flaw in the Academy, as the game can loose a lot of very talented athletes at this age.
These boys are juggling a lot in their lives and need life coaches as well as coaches of the game.
I

Does the academy spend much time one on one/in small groups enhancing the fundamental skills eg. kicking, hand ball, tackling. Or do they assume or believe that should be done at club level?

 

[Reef222]

Does the academy spend much time one on one/in small groups enhancing the fundamental skills eg. kicking, hand ball, tackling. Or do they assume or believe that should be done at club level?

Very very little
They have four or five drills that run for around 5 minutes where boys are broken into groups and on the whistle they move to the next drill then they usually do a rotated match sim, where some feedback is provided to certain players, definitely not done collectively so that all boys are involved.
A Level 4 group was selected early in the piece from the 35 squad members.
This consisted of around 8 boys who had “draft ability “.
This primarily was a group for strength and conditioning done at the Gabba outside of normal training days ( so an extra training session)
On a number of these sessions Hrant Burchill took the boys for , kicking and hand ball drills.
I beg to ask why not to all the squad?
Why only to the boys that in all honestly are already elite in this level.

 

[Reef222]

Very very little
They have four or five drills that run for around 5 minutes where boys are broken into groups and on the whistle they move to the next drill then they usually do a rotated match sim, where some feedback is provided to certain players, definitely not done collectively so that all boys are involved.
A Level 4 group was selected early in the piece from the 35 squad members.
This consisted of around 8 boys who had “draft ability “.
This primarily was a group for strength and conditioning done at the Gabba outside of normal training days ( so an extra training session)
On a number of these sessions Hrant Burchill took the boys for , kicking and hand ball drills.
I beg to ask why not to all the squad?
Why only to the boys that in all honestly are already elite in this level.

These Level 4 boys were also given a tracking device at each straining session but very little feedback was produced to the player on what the tracker displayed.

 

[M Malice]

Very very little
They have four or five drills that run for around 5 minutes where boys are broken into groups and on the whistle they move to the next drill then they usually do a rotated match sim, where some feedback is provided to certain players, definitely not done collectively so that all boys are involved.
A Level 4 group was selected early in the piece from the 35 squad members.
This consisted of around 8 boys who had “draft ability “.
This primarily was a group for strength and conditioning done at the Gabba outside of normal training days ( so an extra training session)
On a number of these sessions Hrant Burchill took the boys for , kicking and hand ball drills.
I beg to ask why not to all the squad?
Why only to the boys that in all honestly are already elite in this level.

That is just about word for word what they do at most Under 14 Div 1 training.

 

[Reef222]

That is just about word for word what they do at most Under 14 Div 1 training.

And this why as an Academy we are loosing players to other states or other sports, the growth of players is not moving

 

[winged1]

Of course the Academy allows those boys who get “selected” exposure in limited games down south.
But with the current selection criteria there are a lot of very talented players not even getting this chance.
They have been told they are not big enough , too selfish, too flashy, don’t understand the “coaches” game. Yet are not given any feedback on things to improve these areas.
Again alot of the game is mental and if you don’t look after these kids and you give them these reasons for not being selected, even though they are very talented, turn up and put in to every training.
At this level it’s not school or park footy, to these boys it’s their lives.

I dont think the weeding out of too selfish is a bad thing. There are fundamental differences in the girls and boys programs, but in the girls those players didnt go through (except for one glaring outlier). So that is good imo. I hope they get a good replacement for Arnell.

 

[winged1]

Does the academy spend much time one on one/in small groups enhancing the fundamental skills eg. kicking, hand ball, tackling. Or do they assume or believe that should be done at club level?

In what i have seen, very little.

I will give an example, there is a kid in the qld side who still has a two handed drop. Now it is a pretty easy fix if you have coached auskick and you are willing to spend the time with them. But they have gone through level 3 with a glaring problem they wont get any penetration on their kick doing that. It should have been fixed at club level and wasn't, but the academy should have picked it up. And it's a kid who will do the work, they just need guidance.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

Is it a money issue? We're not west coast or collingwood can we afford to hire 3 or 4 coaches to train up these kids? Maybe the club is afraid that if we start pumping out elite kids every year the vic clubs will clamp that down very quickly like they did with GWS.

 

[briztoon]

Now youre talkin.

Ive said before, the QAFL coaches (and Mark Browning and the AFLQ) should pick a group of u19s from the QAFL and from the academy that are getting overlooked to play vs the Academys 'preferred' 22 each year. I say u19s as the NAB is an u19s comp and ultimately this is the proving ground all this goes towards. (Because the academy has sucked for so long, one might even give a couple of u20s a run in the QAFL side.)

The 'QAFL 22' can be chosen without having even been in the academy before, or the 'leftovers' of the 'academy 100', and from their final 35.

The 'Harris Andrews and Wylie Buzzas' that have slipped through the cracks probably every year can then get exposure. Clubs can have their say. The boys the clubs are screaming for, to get a chance.

The academy would HATE this idea. They would get exposed. At the least, many of their selections would be questioned as the QAFL side would be incredibly motivated, and it would prove to be a very willing contest. This is why the AFLQ SHOULD make this happen. Ultimately the AFL should hold the Lions feet to the fire to ensure the kids that the AFLQ presides over get their best opportunity as these kids come through AFLQ competitions!

Instead of the academy playing Noosa, Grange etc, play the QAFL boys twice!

The AFLQ has more responsibility to QLD talent than the Lions! If AFLQ really want to help QLD talent in the failing Lions zone, they should give some of the talent they and the QAFL coaches have identified, the chance to have an opportunity vs the Lions best 22.

But perhaps the AFLQ dont really care either?

Anyway, this could be a vehicle for everyone invested in Lions academy zone talent, to have kids who have been overlooked to get their chance. Because at this juncture, if it were to happen, it would realistically be their last chance.

Since the introduction of the northern academies, who was the last kid drafted out of QLD who wasn’t in an academy?

 

[Required]

Since the introduction of the northern academies, who was the last kid drafted out of QLD who wasn’t in an academy?

Whats your point?

Isnt this all about the ones who are falling through the cracks?

A footy player manager once said to me 'a kid must play in an academy series to get drafted'. So if you dont get in the Lions best 22 for the NAB games, its over.

He would know.

.