Play Nice Adam Goodes

[GoodesFella]

Are you refuting any of the points I made, if so id be interested to hear which ones? Does he not seem to jump the opportunity to make things about him being Aboriginal ? Does he have a tendency to divide the communities? Does he have a fairly aggressive approach to combating racism? I mean, for real, in the past week he has made him being booed a race thing, and then divided the community with an unnecessary goal celebration.

He is using his high profile to make a stand, as have many challengers in sport in the past. We cant continue to think the way we do about our indigenous, they still have no voice in our community and when they do, they are lambasted for it. They are hurting immensely and yet we are doing nothing to inspire them as a collective nation.

And so he is using his profile to do something, to inspire and represent and get the message across. And people still miss the ****en point he is making by concentrating on his facets of his character which then dilutes the message thus forcing Adam to make even bigger points.

If we actually change our attitudes towards indigenous in all aspects and not just celebrate them for them entertaining us on a footy field then we wouldn't have Adam Goodes at all.

As it stands he needs to be a vocal voice for his people and being high profile he feels its his duty, why do we need to pass such nasty judgements towards him?

I understand that people dont like players who have torn their sides up, but we dont boo Chris Judd in 2015 for almost poking out another players eyes almost 5 or 6 years ago yet people are holding onto something he did in round 6 2004 or whatever year it was as justification for their booing. It doesn't make sense to a lot of people except that its driven by his stand on racism.

I havent heard Chris Judd boo'd in years ffs.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

You essentially want any indigenous issues to be presented in a way you don't find confronting or uncomfortable. You're the real sane voice in a world full of crazies. When indigenous Australians aren't subject to a wide variety of disadvantage based on their race, maybe we can discuss not calling each other black and white, and have non-confrontational dialogue about how equal we all are. Until then, a lot of discussion on indigenous Australians will be uncomfortable and need to be pushed, because people who totally don't care about / see race in people would prefer it be done quietly, away from them.

Yeah, you might be right. Perhaps my comparison between American and Australia is a bit narrow sighted, as we are probably a way off them in terms of our recognition of the aboriginal community vs. there approach to slavery.

Maybe its just wishful thinking hoping we are at stage where both communities can come together and move forward together. My only reservation with Adam Goodes is that i feel at times he is moving us away from that point instead of towards it.

 

[ManWithNoName]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Adam-Goodes-for-Flog-of-the-Year/1589916354604087?fref=nf

10,000 likes already

A Facebook page?

I had no idea it was this serious.

 

[The King!]

Judd gets booed for chicken whinging players

Think you are putting way too much behind the boos mate

Its often just player i dislike boo

Nothing more nothing less

People are simple

 

[Skeparovic]

So let's call off Anzac Day because you and I had f** all to do with that too.

This "why are we getting blamed for something that happened before we were even born?" would have to be the lamest most BS deflective excuse ever trotted out.

Here's a fact. NO-ONE today is being blamed for the disgraces of the past.

I can feel shame for what my forefathers did, without fearing I'm expected to feel personally responsible.

Just like I can take pride on Anzac Day in what my forefathers did, without feeling I'm claiming any of that for myself.

Why are people so quick to take pride, but so kneejerk to reject any acknowledgement of shame?

A truly mature nation can simultaneously feel pride and shame, without taking any of it personally.

Interesting note you make there about shame. Most people either know what shame is and don't want to talk about or don't know what shame is however still don't want to talk about it.

Shame is the "intensely painful feeling or experience of believing we are flawed and therefore unworthy of acceptance and belonging" (Brown, 2007) and for men is generally triggered by allowing people to see anything that can be perceived as weakness. Men are socialised to hide their vulnerabilities and fears and are under tremendous pressure to appear tough, strong, stoic, powerful, successful, fearless, in control and able.

Pride is something men are raised to express freely whereas shame is generally hidden in secrecy, silence and judgement.

Shame is a self-evaluative emotion about who we are (e.g i am inherently bad) in contrast to guilt which is still a self-evaluative emotion however relating to our behaviour (e.g. i did something bad).

I agree that it would be productive for everyone to acknowledge, speak out about and own their shame however that is a societal battle that is something that would need to be commenced via schooling curriculum etc and not a BF board.

 

[Cleric]

You live in an amazing country. We even call it the lucky country. Of course you are benefiting. No harm in that.

All I am saying is have some compassion and respect for the original owners of this land.

It's not that controversial is it?

I give everyone equal compassion and respect. I judge people on how I find them. No one has more or less right to anything.
Im here because I was born here, just as Adam is. I didnt have to pass an exam or the like. I wasnt given a choice of where I was to be born. Aboriginals didnt invent this contienent. That was science. So they have no more right of ownership than I do. To follow your logic as I am 5th Generation Australian, with multiple family who forght and died for it in multiple wars in places like Gallipoli and Tobruk does an refugee family from Sudan owe me something? Should they respect me for my families history on this land?

 

[innocentsmiles]

Unsure if thread is on BigFooty or Stormfront

 

[GoodesFella]

Judd gets booed for chicken whinging players

Think you are putting way too much behind the boos mate

Its often just player i dislike boo

Nothing more nothing less

People are simple

When was the last time you heard Chris Judd boo'd the way Goodes does?

Chicken wing and eye gauging.

Come on lets be serious here.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

He is using his high profile to make a stand, as have many challengers in sport in the past. We cant continue to think the way we do about our indigenous, they still have no voice in our community and when they do, they are lambasted for it. They are hurting immensely and yet we are doing nothing to inspire them as a collective nation.

And so he is using his profile to do something, to inspire and represent and get the message across. And people still miss the ****en point he is making by concentrating on his facets of his character which then dilutes the message thus forcing Adam to make even bigger points.

If we actually change our attitudes towards indigenous in all aspects and not just celebrate them for them entertaining us on a footy field then we wouldn't have Adam Goodes at all.

As it stands he needs to be a vocal voice for his people and being high profile he feels its his duty, why do we need to pass such nasty judgements towards him?

I understand that people dont like players who have torn their sides up, but we dont boo Chris Judd in 2015 for almost poking out another players eyes almost 5 or 6 years ago yet people are holding onto something he did in round 6 2004 or whatever year it was as justification for their booing. It doesn't make sense to a lot of people except that its driven by his stand on racism.

I havent heard Chris Judd boo'd in years ffs.

I don't think myself or a lot of other people are refuting the merit of his cause, what im trying to say is the way he goes about getting that point across ends up tarnishing the message itself because people don't hear the message.

Statements like, "Aboriginal people have been here a lot longer than anybody else, so just remember whose lands you are on", although 100% true, don't serve the greater good, and don't help to foster a relationship between the two communities. Doing a war dance at the opposition cheer squad doesn't help foster a relationship between the two communities, jumping to the conclusion that "people boo me because I'm aboriginal" doesn't help foster a relationship between the two communities. His message is true and comes from the right place but his method of delivery divides the community.

 

[ManWithNoName]

So, the media's falling over each other to scream how people shouldn't have been offended by Goodes on Friday night.

Was there anyone actually OFFENDED? Some people thought it was floggish, sure. But I haven't seen anyone take actual issue with it.

 

[The King!]

When was the last time you heard Chris Judd boo'd the way Goodes does?

Chicken wing and eye gauging.

Come on lets be serious here.

I dont know The exact round

I remember hird being booed round 1 though

 

[pazza]

Harmless. Simple.

 

[keithrichards]

Was going to post in the indigenous round thread, but realised it was closed...

This is an article based on Gender Equality, and I'm sure many will refuse to read it, but I think there is some cross over with the reasons that many find celebration of these rounds (incl multicultural and women's round) difficult.

http://m.dailylife.com.au/news-and-...e-in-privilege-and-thats-okay-20150527-ghambb

 

[GoodesFella]

I dont know The exact round

I remember hird being booed round 1 though

And why was Hird boo'd?

BTW quote function.

 

[Kummerspeck]

Yeah, you might be right. Perhaps my comparison between American and Australia is a bit narrow sighted, as we are probably a way off them in terms of our recognition of the aboriginal community vs. there approach to slavery.

Maybe its just wishful thinking hoping we are at stage where both communities can come together and move forward together.

You realise in order to do that, the Morgan Freeman approach where the indigenous people just forget that they're part of a community that has some of the lowest living standards in the developed world won't work? People who want this approach are doing a lot more work keeping people divided. They're ignoring the validity and truth of the situation because the message isn't being presented in a way that's easy for them to understand (or more accurately, ignore).

 

[The King!]

And why was Hird boo'd?

BTW quote function.

Because people dont like what he did

Simplistic but the same

 

[skipper kelly]

SEN are nailing it right now.

 

[CountryRace]

Roh Connelly

Those people that boo - cause he is a diver

Need to be very carful, to not provide a cover for racism


....wtf

SEN are nailing it right now.

U reckon?

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Yes, that's his argument. Kudos.

EDIT: Mmm, to give a very brief summary of the article...
The booing started after Goodes had the ‘bad taste’ to call out a teen for calling him an ape. It then intensified after he wrote a ‘divisive’ article (while Australian of the year, no less!) about the racism at the base of Australian colonial history. The author argues that the hatred Hawthorn fans have for Goodes is c
If onnected to these things, as it comes into being with these incidents. He thus claims it's not to do with staging, etc, as that would mean many players would be booed in the same way. Yet they are not. And he wonders if it’s a political/class prejudice, due to Goodes politics being at odds with the Hawthorn supporter base, which is historically right/conservative leaning. So yeah, that is his argument. What’s good about the article is seeing someone actually thinking about sporting events and our reaction to them as a political entity, rather pretending these things exist in a separate bubble. Good for him.

Problem with his argument is his basic premise is flawed and supported by contrary data. First, Hawthorn supporters (indeed other supporters) were booing Goodes prior to either incident as demonstrated by these articles

http://m.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/roos-defends-heckled-star/story-e6frf3au-1111113489726

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-14/goodes-abuse-inappropriate

Secondly, he has made a massive assumption that all Hawthorn fans are private school educated rich kids. Hawthorn's number one demographic is Croydon.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/in...rship-heartlands/story-fni0fiyv-1227255772155

Thirdly, while undoubtedly Hawthorn will have more Liberal/Conservative voters than some other teams, the split between ALP, Liberal and Greens voters is nowhere great as stereotypes would suggest.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...ans-of-your-afl-team-lean-politically/5919062

If it's totally politically driven, why don't other clubs with conservative leanings (Melbourne, St Kilda and Alomes' own team Geelong) boo with the same venom? What about the rest of the clubs - even a club like the Western Bulldogs should have a large number of conservative voters at any game.

Look as I've said throughout the thread I don't doubt some of the abuse is racist. But to boil it down to a single cause when there is evidence to the contrary is sloppy research pandering to stereotypes and does nothing to add real substance to the argument. Martin Flanagan, in my view has nailed it. It probably started out as football related, it has offered a cover for those who want to boo for political/racial reasons (hence the increase in the intensity), there's no doubt a sheep mentality to some of the booing and the fact he plays for Sydney has to be brought into it from a Hawthorn point of view (and other clubs/supporters are going to have their reasons for not liking the Swans). A more reasoned analysis would look for all the factors (again, of one which is undoubtedly racially driven) before singling out a single driver of the behaviour. Research into the game from a political science point of view is welcomed - as long as it is thorough and evidence driven.

That being said, I'll reiterate what I said earlier in the thread. I loved the war dance because it gives us a proper focus for discussion. I thought it was a great response to the situation. I didn't find it inflammatory or aggressive - I thought it was a great bit of theatre with a great message. The response to the war dance says more to me than anyone booing during a game.

 

[GoodesFella]

Doing a war dance at the opposition cheer squad doesn't help foster a relationship between the two communities.

Why is he not allowed to perform a war dance during a battle?

If he came out and did it in front of the media and walked off or he did it when he accepted his AOTY award, ok. But he didnt. He performed it during the heat of a battle, when a war dance is appropriate. Its the theatre of sport. And he did it during indigenous round.

People are arguing why he didnt do it to the calrton players? Well again it was aimed at carlton in general. Then people ask why he didnt do it to swans fans? And then they asked why he didnt do it at the start of the game? Would the umpire not bounce the ball if Goodes decided to perform it? Goodes would have looked like an idiot if he did it at the start of the game while the game commenced! And imagine the insults then!

Lewis Jetta had one planed and i really wish he did kick a goal so he could perform it. Maybe he might do one next week? If there is one player who has benefited so much from Goodes, its lewis jetta.

 

[bombers21]

He knows why he gets boo'd. Weak player. Rarely puts his head over the ball and doesn't hesitate shoving others into a pack

 

[Kummerspeck]

Roh Connelly

Those people that boo - cause he is a diver

Need to be very carful, to not provide a cover for racism


....wtf

What's your issue? Those booing for whatever reason they give are also providing cover and legitimacy for those who are booing because they're racist.

 

[NickoST]

He spoke eloquently yesterday which seemed to piss off people even more.

No it's the condescending tone which is pissing people off.

I have enough life experience to recognise a flog when I see one. Yet he's telling me I'm wrong and that I need some education.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

You realise in order to do that, the Morgan Freeman approach where the indigenous people just forget that they're part of a community that has some of the lowest living standards in the developed world won't work? People who want this approach are doing a lot more work keeping people divided. They're ignoring the validity and truth of the situation because the message isn't being presented in a way that's easy for them to understand (or more accurately, ignore).

It seems as though alot of the examples i have given are aimed more at Adam Goodes approach to racism within the footy community. Recognising that we are one in the same doesn't mean we need to disregard poverty on any level. There are unrepresented individuals in every community, and this element of poverty isn't going anywhere soon, and ontop of that I dont think the actions of Goodes i have used as examples are directly aimed at combating poverty in Australia, more at racism in the AFL community.

 

[CountryRace]

What's your issue? Those booing for whatever reason they give are also providing cover and legitimacy for those who are booing because they're racist.

My issue is if you buy a ticket for a football match, you should e able to boo till the cows come home

Be it a goodes, a ff that throws grass in the air and drinks Smirnoff, an umpire, or a seagul or a drug cheat