List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[George CantStandYa]

This is Milera’s 5th or 6th year isn’t it? He will now have added a fair bit of physical strength to compete against other big bodied mids.

He is an ok height.

He has good evasive skills, good kick, good burst of speed, we have wings and half backs covered.

Why wouldn’t we try and make him a mid like we recruited him for?

 

[Gtowncrow]

Most important lesson from the grand final today is when you draft good players, you absolutely MUST back them in at AFL level

Even if it means turfing senior players to the reserves. If your recruiting team says a player is good, uses a good pick on them, that must take precedent over experience and tenure

Jackson
Bowey
Pickett
Rivers
Sparrow

No messing around giving Pickett year after year in the twos to teach him how to defend, or telling Jackson to kick bags before a call up. Nope. They're just in the side. Bowey gets the call up in round 20 after being on the list for one year? No problem, you're playing all the finals son

Melbourne took 11 players in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft since 2017. 9 of them played in the grand final, with only two guys from the latest draft missing. That's every single first and second round pick from three consecutive drafts playing in the team.

It didn't ******* matter that they had Nathan Jones, Neville Jetta, Jayden Hunt or Jake Melksham on their list. Or Mitch Brown, or Majak Daw, or Aaron Vandenberg or several other long career battlers.

Their recruiters said they picked talented players. They played those players as a priority. Now they have a flag

Your best work. Well said...

 

[George CantStandYa]

Most important lesson from the grand final today is when you draft good players, you absolutely MUST back them in at AFL level

Even if it means turfing senior players to the reserves. If your recruiting team says a player is good, uses a good pick on them, that must take precedent over experience and tenure

Jackson
Bowey
Pickett
Rivers
Sparrow

No messing around giving Pickett year after year in the twos to teach him how to defend, or telling Jackson to kick bags before a call up. Nope. They're just in the side. Bowey gets the call up in round 20 after being on the list for one year? No problem, you're playing all the finals son

Melbourne took 11 players in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft since 2017. 9 of them played in the grand final, with only two guys from the latest draft missing. That's every single first and second round pick from three consecutive drafts playing in the team.

It didn't ******* matter that they had Nathan Jones, Neville Jetta, Jayden Hunt or Jake Melksham on their list. Or Mitch Brown, or Majak Daw, or Aaron Vandenberg or several other long career battlers.

Their recruiters said they picked talented players. They played those players as a priority. Now they have a flag

Send this to the club.

They’ve also nailed their picks. Get their recruiter.

 

[1970crow]

Head-hunted by D. Noble??

I’d suggest more like going to the only offer. Thing with our guys is that they might have solid leadership credentials, but we’re devoid of valuable IP. So there’s next to no market for our guys when playing career is at its end.

 

[1970crow]

Do they keep stats for goals kicked against?

Difficult in a team defence situation. But he’d not be the only guy that an opposition has gotten away from. Our complete lack of pressure applied between the arcs makes a defensive role very difficult. Playing behind the ball and watching multiple opponents running at you under no pressure is not a lot of fun. Play in front and your opponent sucks back, play behind and they lead up.

 

[1970crow]

Most important lesson from the grand final today is when you draft good players, you absolutely MUST back them in at AFL level

Even if it means turfing senior players to the reserves. If your recruiting team says a player is good, uses a good pick on them, that must take precedent over experience and tenure

Jackson
Bowey
Pickett
Rivers
Sparrow

No messing around giving Pickett year after year in the twos to teach him how to defend, or telling Jackson to kick bags before a call up. Nope. They're just in the side. Bowey gets the call up in round 20 after being on the list for one year? No problem, you're playing all the finals son

Melbourne took 11 players in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft since 2017. 9 of them played in the grand final, with only two guys from the latest draft missing. That's every single first and second round pick from three consecutive drafts playing in the team.

It didn't ******* matter that they had Nathan Jones, Neville Jetta, Jayden Hunt or Jake Melksham on their list. Or Mitch Brown, or Majak Daw, or Aaron Vandenberg or several other long career battlers.

Their recruiters said they picked talented players. They played those players as a priority. Now they have a flag

As a wise man once said, fully develop in a semi-pro league, develop to be a semi-pro.

 

[Golumless]

Do they keep stats for goals kicked against?

The closest stat would be contested defence one on one losses, in which Milera loses 30.6% of contest he's one on one in his career. For reference, Luke Brown is at 31.8%, and Andrew McPherson is at 34.4%. Will Hamill is the worst of the regular non key defenders on our list at 40%, but half back is a noted development position and I doubt we see Will ending up as a permanent defender.

On the other side, Brodie Smith ended up at 22.9%, Jake Kelly at 20.8% and surprisingly Chayce Jones at 22.7% as the three leaders of this stat in our small to mid-sized defenders.

It's not great, considering there is likely a bias towards actually good defenders having a higher lose rate due to attracting a higher quality opponent, whereas the Brodie Smiths of this world are getting matched up with the defensive forwards. That said, it's not at a point that it wouldn't be offset by an expansive offensive game. After all, the point of having a Milera in defense is about breaking opposition zones.

Also, whilst I'm here, lets have a quick mention about our key backs and how they went in 2021 seeing they're both new to the gig. Nick Murray was at a 18.4% loss rate this year which is Talia like (career rate of 20.7% with a 16-23% range), though its a smallish sample size. I reckon we're sleeping on how good that kid is going to be. The other two notable key backs are Butts who went at a respectable 29.6% rate this year considering he was thrown to the wolves, and Doedee who suffered badly from our decision early on to play with 1 key defender, and posted a miserable 39.7% loss rate.

 

[Thetrader15]

This is Milera’s 5th or 6th year isn’t it? He will now have added a fair bit of physical strength to compete against other big bodied mids.

He is an ok height.

He has good evasive skills, good kick, good burst of speed, we have wings and half backs covered.

Why wouldn’t we try and make him a mid like we recruited him for?

Wonder if we would look to trade him - pick 4 and Milera for pick 1.

Roos would be tempted you'd think.

 

[Danger in Texas]

The closest stat would be contested defence one on one losses, in which Milera loses 30.6% of contest he's one on one in his career. For reference, Luke Brown is at 31.8%, and Andrew McPherson is at 34.4%. Will Hamill is the worst of the regular non key defenders on our list at 40%, but half back is a noted development position and one I doubt we see Will ending up as a permanent defender.

On the other side, Brodie Smith ended up at 22.9%, Jake Kelly at 20.8% and surprisingly Chayce Jones at 22.7% as the three leaders of this stat in our small to mid-sized defenders.

It's not great, considering there is likely a bias towards actually good defenders having a higher lose rate due to attracting a higher quality opponent, whereas the Brodie Smiths of this world are getting matched up with the defensive forwards. That said, it's not at a point that it wouldn't be offset by an expansive offensive game. After all, the point of having a Milera in defense is about breaking opposition zones.

Also, whilst I'm here, lets have a quick mention about our key backs and how they went in 2021 seeing they're both new to the gig. Quietly Nick Murray was at a 18.4% loss rate this year which is Talia like (career rate of 20.7% with a 16-23% range), though its a smallish sample size. I reckon we're sleeping on how good that kid is going to be as an aside. The other two notable key backs are Butts who went at a respectable 29.6% rate this year considering he was thrown to the wolves, and Doedee who suffered badly from our decision early on to play with 1 key defender, and posted a miserable 39.7% loss rate.

These stats tell me a few things (taking into account the flaws):

- Murray needs to be persisted with, agree that we’re sleeping on him. We might’ve actually found a totally unexpected gem
- Jones should be Brown’s long-term replacement. I know people like to shoehorn Moose into Brown’s role, but Chayce is perfectly capable of being a better rebounding version of Brown. His defensive work down back very underrated this year
- We should never try the ‘one KPD’ experiment ever again

 

[1970crow]

The closest stat would be contested defence one on one losses, in which Milera loses 30.6% of contest he's one on one in his career. For reference, Luke Brown is at 31.8%, and Andrew McPherson is at 34.4%. Will Hamill is the worst of the regular non key defenders on our list at 40%, but half back is a noted development position and one I doubt we see Will ending up as a permanent defender.

On the other side, Brodie Smith ended up at 22.9%, Jake Kelly at 20.8% and surprisingly Chayce Jones at 22.7% as the three leaders of this stat in our small to mid-sized defenders.

It's not great, considering there is likely a bias towards actually good defenders having a higher lose rate due to attracting a higher quality opponent, whereas the Brodie Smiths of this world are getting matched up with the defensive forwards. That said, it's not at a point that it wouldn't be offset by an expansive offensive game. After all, the point of having a Milera in defense is about breaking opposition zones.

Also, whilst I'm here, lets have a quick mention about our key backs and how they went in 2021 seeing they're both new to the gig. Quietly Nick Murray was at a 18.4% loss rate this year which is Talia like (career rate of 20.7% with a 16-23% range), though its a smallish sample size. I reckon we're sleeping on how good that kid is going to be as an aside. The other two notable key backs are Butts who went at a respectable 29.6% rate this year considering he was thrown to the wolves, and Doedee who suffered badly from our decision early on to play with 1 key defender, and posted a miserable 39.7% loss rate.

my only issue with Milera off half back was he lowered his eyes too much. He'd often kick short to a leading target with a defender on their arse. He didn't seem to look longer anywhere near enough. "Never kick short to a 50:50" was drummed into me during u13-15 days and Milera broke that rule a lot. It's something that annoys me to this day.

 

[whattagun07]

It shouldn't be but apparently to some on here it is for some stupid reason.

ugh

 

[LoBu]

These stats tell me a few things (taking into account the flaws):

- We should never try the ‘one KPD’ experiment ever again

I have a feeling we were tanking mid season with this one KPD stuff. There are some elements that don't add up in selection, but I think we executed our game plan fully on just a few occasions (Melbourne, Geelong, Port), almost as if Nicks was demonstrating to the players/ board etc where he was going, then tanking against Fremantle, West Coast, Hawthorn, Collingwood, etc just going through the motions, experimenting with positions and players.

We would often just go 'missing' for a quarter while everyone was out of place, then make the players work really hard to 'fight it out'.

This makes me think we can beat a lot more teams next year, given we want to convince other players to join the crows end of 2022.

On Pixel 3 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crowked]

Wonder if we would look to trade him - pick 4 and Milera for pick 1.

Roos would be tempted you'd think.

I wouldn’t be if I was them.

Milera is injury prone. Will most likely amount to nothing. I wouldn’t consider him in that deal as having much value, virtually none.

 

[Sanders]

I wouldn’t be if I was them.

Milera is injury prone. Will most likely amount to nothing. I wouldn’t consider him in that deal as having much value, virtually none.

with his contract, we’d almost need to pay someone to take Milera off our hands.

we just need to suck it up and hope he comes good

 

[dylan123]

Here's hoping he can get a good run at it in 2022. Has so many attribute to like about his game and I always thought it was a great sign he was finishing in the top 3 in the time trials (forget if that was this year or the season before) as it means he's not cruising on his talent alone.

If he's doing full training with the team post Christmas break and has no setbacks, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be in the team come round one. Might be a big if though...

 

[Gtowncrow]

The closest stat would be contested defence one on one losses, in which Milera loses 30.6% of contest he's one on one in his career. For reference, Luke Brown is at 31.8%, and Andrew McPherson is at 34.4%. Will Hamill is the worst of the regular non key defenders on our list at 40%, but half back is a noted development position and one I doubt we see Will ending up as a permanent defender.

On the other side, Brodie Smith ended up at 22.9%, Jake Kelly at 20.8% and surprisingly Chayce Jones at 22.7% as the three leaders of this stat in our small to mid-sized defenders.

It's not great, considering there is likely a bias towards actually good defenders having a higher lose rate due to attracting a higher quality opponent, whereas the Brodie Smiths of this world are getting matched up with the defensive forwards. That said, it's not at a point that it wouldn't be offset by an expansive offensive game. After all, the point of having a Milera in defense is about breaking opposition zones.

Also, whilst I'm here, lets have a quick mention about our key backs and how they went in 2021 seeing they're both new to the gig. Quietly Nick Murray was at a 18.4% loss rate this year which is Talia like (career rate of 20.7% with a 16-23% range), though its a smallish sample size. I reckon we're sleeping on how good that kid is going to be. The other two notable key backs are Butts who went at a respectable 29.6% rate this year considering he was thrown to the wolves, and Doedee who suffered badly from our decision early on to play with 1 key defender, and posted a miserable 39.7% loss rate.

Murray is my tip for biggest improver next year. He'll be in permanent 22 at some stage early on.
Agree with your thoughts about him.

 

[Sanders]

Milera at his best was still underwhelming. Another Hamish flubber.

now he’s 2 years out of the game and not even halfway through his contract

anything we get from him is a bonus. Hopefully there’s a half way decent player ready to break out

 

[FR0GGY]

Actually there is. Get competent people and get the off field sorted. Look at Balmes influence at clubs.
Go look at when Melbourne changed their list manager. Look at who they have brought to the club in recent years.
Go have a look at what happened to Brisbane when Fagan arrived.
Buckenara became recruiting manager at Hawthorn in 2004

Avoid the definition of insanity by doing the same thing over and over a gain.

If there's no magic formula there is a disaster formula like appointing Mark Neeld coach, Burton head of performance, Carlton sacking coaches every 3 years while board is in turmoil etc etc etc.

So what you are saying is hire good people but not bad people?
How do you determine the good from the bad before you hire them?

 

[FR0GGY]

Milera at his best was still underwhelming. Another Hamish flubber.

now he’s 2 years out of the game and not even halfway through his contract

anything we get from him is a bonus. Hopefully there’s a half way decent player ready to break out

Is he still on that 3 year 1 million contract?

 

[Sanders]

Is he still on that 3 year 1 million contract?

no. He’s on a 5 year contract

 

[feenix67]

So what you are saying is hire good people but not bad people?
How do you determine the good from the bad before you hire them?

Well, you don't hire people with poor track records and then elevate them to positions for which they have no experience, for a start

 

[GROTTO]

Milera at his best was still underwhelming. Another Hamish flubber.

now he’s 2 years out of the game and not even halfway through his contract

anything we get from him is a bonus. Hopefully there’s a half way decent player ready to break out

The sad part is that very very few players play better post-injury (significant).

We may have already seen the best of Milera.

 

[Golumless]

The sad part is that very very few players play better post-injury (significant).

We may have already seen the best of Milera.

I wouldn't be surprised if after 1 LTI, that very few comment is false. Seemingly players do tend to recover from them, especially when they're on the younger side.

Two + though? Well that's likely a different barrel of fish. Especially in a row as 24 months is a long time out of the game.

 

[Crowked]

Have we officially delisted Lynch and Talia?

AFL.com have them listed as delisted. I thought at this point they are unsigned FA’s.

 

[Golumless]

Have we officially delisted Lynch and Talia?

AFL.com have them listed as delisted. I thought at this point they are unsigned FA’s.

Not sure as we were able to play Lynch after we announced we were delisting him.