List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[Johnny Rutten]

Shaw, possibly. I think I read somewhere that he was given a 1-year contract. It was either him or LT. Fairly sure CEY is out of contract.

http://www.afc.com.au/player-profile/cameron-ellisyolmen
The promising Crow established himself as a capable running defender at SANFL level in 2013, playing 14 senior games, including two finals, for Woodville-West Torrens. Ellis-Yolmen showed enough to earn a two-year contract extension, and was selected in the Australian Indigenous team to play Ireland in the International Rules series. Impressed in two NAB Cup games last pre-season and will be looking to become a consistent contributor in 2014.

 

[Vader]

Nice bit of research there. Seems LT is the only one who is out of contract. Wonder if he feels like Sean Penn? Dead Man Walking...

 

[Hodgy]

Agreed. Great trades and were completed at well below their current value. Added to that would be the trade of Bernie to get Matt Crouch, who will seamlessly replace Thompson when he's ready to be shown the door.

I bet all these people complaining about AFC's trades would be the same people complaining had we given up early draft picks. No list manager in this world has the ability to trade overrated fringe players and shitty late-round draft picks into stars of the competition. You can't polish a turd.

I'm really happy with Cheney and Lowden. From what i've read, they're great "club" men, bring a winning mentality and both have the sort of attitude Walsh is trying to foster around the club. They fill deficiencies in the squad and, at worst, add competition for places. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cheney play 22 this year.

Hope your right about Cheney, going to watch with interest and high hopes. The big thing that I like most about our trades recently is that they cost us virtually nothing. Everyone who are raving about Geelong getting Clark conveniently forget that they gave up their 2 fastest midfielders in Varcoe and Christianson and similarly with North, they brought in Waite and Shaun Higgins but gave up Greenwood who to me is like us losing Sloane.

Trading is great if you can improve your list without upsetting the culture and composition of your group but I think people forget that all trading is a 2 way transaction. In my opinion this is something that we have been good at understanding for quite a while.

 

[headache1]

Shaw, possibly. I think I read somewhere that he was given a 1-year contract. It was either him or LT. Fairly sure CEY is out of contract.

Not 100% sure on this, but I think CEY signed a 2 year extension in 2013.

 

[BACCS]

Wells
Wright
Hine

Are probably the big 3 for me. Hine + Rendell isn't a bad setup

Noble is in that group and is very highly regarded within the AFL, there is a reason the Hawks went after him to stand alongside Wright. Not sure why plebs like us try to rate list managers anyway, a lot of their work is done behind closed doors.

 

[Crowhorse]

Hawks have been the best at trading and drafting in recent history its no wonder we went after their overflow.

 

[mickfaxis]

Nice bit of research there. Seems LT is the only one who is out of contract. Wonder if he feels like Sean Penn? Dead Man Walking...

He's had his chances and never really looked comfortable at AFL level. There was a good patch there in 2012 maybe when Shaw and Talia both got injured, but he has hardly been sighted since. Would be the man most under the gun with Cheney signed today.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

People will be surprised at how good this Lowden could be

3 goals, 12 possessions, 15 hit outs and 10 score involvements for his first game against the best ruck combination in the comp

There is plenty there for Clarke to work with

I think he is capable of putting genuine pressure on JJ's spot. This can only be a good thing, for the team, JJ and Luke. There may be some games next year where Lowden is brought in to help counter the stronger opposition ruck duos (horses for courses). Will be interesting to follow.

 

[Niximus]

I'd hate to play poker against David Noble!

Or any of the meltdown brigade. Anything less than a royal flush and they'll act as if they're holding 7-2 off suit

 

[mickfaxis]

I think he is capable of putting genuine pressure on JJ's spot. This can only be a good thing, for the team, JJ and Luke. There may be some games next year where Lowden is brought in to help counter the stronger opposition ruck duos (horse for courses). Will be interesting to follow.

With talk on here about 300 pages ago of the AFL potentially scrapping the sub next year, there might be room in the side for both.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

He's had his chances and never really looked comfortable at AFL level. There was a good patch there in 2012 maybe when Shaw and Talia both got injured, but he has hardly been sighted since. Would be the man most under the gun with Cheney signed today.

LT's finish to this season was terrible. The North Melbourne/Ziebell game is one that comes to mind (although that was as much about Sando's poor coaching as it was about LT's capabilities).

 

[Stiffy_18]

Not surprised that a few are cracking the shits about our trades because they generally overvalue draft picks!

Personally, I LOVE the way David Noble goes about it in trade week. I personally don't think there is too much difference between pick 10 and 14. Its much of muchness and good recruiting team will get a very good player at 14. Exhibit A: Brodie Smith

Going into trade week I said we need to be smart about how we go here and what we do. We cannot afford to lose early picks because we need to replenish the list. Unless of course you are trading for a young star. I mentioned that we need to identify the players that are good enough to play good AFL footy for us and play certain roles but are not getting an opportunity at their club for whatever reason. I think we just might have done that here.

I think Cheney will surprise people. I think he will play most of the games for us next year. He is that medium defender that can play taller than his size. A bit like what Torney was for us. Provides some much needed toughness in defence. While not a key position defender, he strengthens the back line for us. At Hawthorn, he was stuck behind Gibson. He is still young with best footy ahead of him.

Back up ruckman was our biggest need by far. We just had to get one. We got a 23 year old ruckman who can play forward. A left footer who is also a left handed tap ruckman. Its a big body we need and at that age, his best footy is ahead of him. Ability to play forward is a plus as well. I am happy with this.

I have to admin when the first trade went down, I wasn't thrilled that we lost 2nd round pick. For a club that had no decent draft picks in last 2 years (other than 23 last year after losing Bernie) we could ill afford to lose 1st and 2nd round draft picks. When the second deal went down, I LOVED it as it completed the overall picture. Like with all the David Noble trades, its not about individual trades but the overall picture...the bottom line.

The bottom line for us is that we moved 4 spots down in 1st and 2nd round from 10 and 31 to 14 and 35 respectively. On top of that we improved our 3rd and 4th round picks, got another 3rd round pick, picked up a back up ruckman that can play as a forward with best footy ahead of him, and a medium defender that will bring toughness and team first attitude. Bookmark this , Cheney will play majority of games for us next year as a 3rd tall.

Overall, I am very happy with what we did in this trade period. We were never going to be big players but we got the bang for our buck. A tick from me.

I think we picked up two players that will be good for us and play a lot of footy for us and still kept selections in first two rounds. I am sure in 3 years time we will look back at this trade period and say it was a nice little win for us.

Now on to the draft! I'd back us in to pick some good players for us with the first 2 picks and maybe even with two picks in the 3rd round.

 

[NTRabbit]

So was Giles essendons first choice and ours anyone know?

Essendon's first choice was for a jubilant Ryder and Joe Daniher, the moonlight sparkling in their love filled eyes, the wrongful accusations by the evil CIA-like ASADA and WADA long dispensed with, sweeping in and taking James Hird aloft their shoulders as a flock of white geese burst forth from the grass and flew North, orbiting the mists above Windy Hill thrice before continuing on to the horizon. With dignity and might, they would stride forth, the mighty black and red pennant held by Jobe Watson fluttering behind them, leading the Essendon people to the premiership they richly deserve, and indeed have been robbed of these past years.

 

[mickfaxis]

LT's finish to this season was terrible. The North Melbourne/Ziebell game is one that comes to mind (although that was as much about Sando's poor coaching as it was about LT's capabilities).

That move was reminiscent of Massie on Buddy in Craig's finest hour of coaching! It cost us a shot at Finals. It cost Sando his job. And probably cost LT his career.

 

[Canberra Based Crow]

Not surprised that a few are cracking the shits about our trades because they generally overvalue draft picks!

Personally, I LOVE the way David Noble goes about it in trade week. I personally don't think there is too much difference between pick 10 and 14. Its much of muchness and good recruiting team will get a very good player at 14. Exhibit A: Brodie Smith

Going into trade week I said we need to be smart about how we go here and what we do. We cannot afford to lose early picks because we need to replenish the list. Unless of course you are trading for a young star. I mentioned that we need to identify the players that are good enough to play good AFL footy for us and play certain roles but are not getting an opportunity at their club for whatever reason. I think we just might have done that here.

I think Cheney will surprise people. I think he will play most of the games for us next year. He is that medium defender that can play taller than his size. A bit like what Torney was for us. Provides some much needed toughness in defence. While not a key position defender, he strengthens the back line for us. At Hawthorn, he was stuck behind Gibson. He is still young with best footy ahead of him.

Back up ruckman was our biggest need by far. We just had to get one. We got a 23 year old ruckman who can play forward. A left footer who is also a left handed tap ruckman. Its a big body we need and at that age, his best footy is ahead of him. Ability to play forward is a plus as well. I am happy with this.

I have to admin when the first trade went down, I wasn't thrilled that we lost 2nd round pick. For a club that had no decent draft picks in last 2 years (other than 23 last year after losing Bernie) we could ill afford to lose 1st and 2nd round draft picks. When the second deal went down, I LOVED it as it completed the overall picture. Like with all the David Noble trades, its not about individual trades but the overall picture...the bottom line.

The bottom line for us is that we moved 4 spots down in 1st and 2nd round from 10 and 31 to 14 and 35 respectively. On top of that we improved our 3rd and 4th round picks, got another 3rd round pick, picked up a back up ruckman that can play as a forward with best footy ahead of him, and a medium defender that will bring toughness and team first attitude. Bookmark this , Cheney will play majority of games for us next year as a 3rd tall.

Overall, I am very happy with what we did in this trade period. We were never going to be big players but we got the bang for our buck. A tick from me.

I think we picked up two players that will be good for us and play a lot of footy for us and still kept selections in first two rounds. I am sure in 3 years time we will look back at this trade period and say it was a nice little win for us.

Now on to the draft! I'd back us in to pick some good players for us with the first 2 picks and maybe even with two picks in the 3rd round.

Could not have put it better myself!

I was stuck in a conference at docklands today and all I could think about was what was going on across the road. Great work in filling our needs while retaining picks.

Caleb Daniel with our second pick?
Really love the looks of him.

 

[Draft Bored]

I'm really surprised at the number of people who think the pick number is the only factor in determining if a player is going to be a star. There are so many other factors; ability to spot talent, team needs, development of players, injuries and also players wishes mold the eventual draft order. It's not a scale of talent where each player going down the list is slightly better than the last.

Wingard told GWS he wanted nothing to do with them so he was picked with the first non GWS pick (6) but would have gone in the top 3.

This is why the comparisons of pick 10 vs pick 14 in previous drafts mean nothing. They are made by different teams with different needs with different talent scouts with different development programs.

You need not look any further than the 2009 draft to realise the pick means very little.

1 Tom Scully
2 Jack Trengove
3 Dustin Martin
4 Anthony Morabito
5 Ben Cunnington
6 Gary Rohan
7 Brad Sheppard
8 John Butcher
9 Andrew Moore
10 Jake Melksham
11 Jordan Gysberts
12 Kane Lucas
13 Daniel Talia
14 Lewis Jetta
15 Christian Howard
16 Jasper Pittard
17 Daniel Menzel
18 Luke Tapscott
19 Benjamin Griffiths
20 Nathan Fyfe
24 Jake Carlisle
29 Jack Gunston
40 Allen Christensen

A few things that jump out at you immediately is Adelaide's ability to draft and develop players; Talia & Gunston. They are now in the top 5 players from this draft and were picked at 13 and 29.

The number of players that don't work out due to injury (Trengove, Moribito, Menzel), or poor development (majority of the others). And then the poor selections (Butcher).

If you were to reorder this draft after 5 years of development the top 6 would look something like this:

20 Nathan Fyfe
13 Daniel Talia
29 Jack Gunston
3 Dustin Martin
24 Jake Carlisle
40 Allen Christensen

 

[Canberra Based Crow]

Just watched walsh's press conference about his thoughts on today and have to say fills me with confidence. Looks like they have a very clear drafting path and game plan in their minds. Love it!

 

[Glenno23]

I'm really surprised at the number of people who think the pick number is the only factor in determining if a player is going to be a star. There are so many other factors; ability to spot talent, team needs, development of players, injuries and also players wishes mold the eventual draft order. It's not a scale of talent where each player going down the list is slightly better than the last.

Wingard told GWS he wanted nothing to do with them so he was picked with the first non GWS pick (6) but would have gone in the top 3.

This is why the comparisons of pick 10 vs pick 14 in previous drafts mean nothing. They are made by different teams with different needs with different talent scouts with different development programs.

You need not look any further than the 2009 draft to realise the pick means very little.

1 Tom Scully
2 Jack Trengove
3 Dustin Martin
4 Anthony Morabito
5 Ben Cunnington
6 Gary Rohan
7 Brad Sheppard
8 John Butcher
9 Andrew Moore
10 Jake Melksham
11 Jordan Gysberts
12 Kane Lucas
13 Daniel Talia
14 Lewis Jetta
15 Christian Howard
16 Jasper Pittard
17 Daniel Menzel
18 Luke Tapscott
19 Benjamin Griffiths
20 Nathan Fyfe
24 Jake Carlisle
29 Jack Gunston
40 Allen Christensen

A few things that jump out at you immediately is Adelaide's ability to draft and develop players; Talia & Gunston. They are now in the top 5 players from this draft and were picked at 13 and 29.

The number of players that don't work out due to injury (Trengove, Moribito, Menzel), or poor development (majority of the others). And then the poor selections (Butcher).

If you were to reorder this draft after 5 years of development the top 6 would look something like this:

20 Nathan Fyfe
13 Daniel Talia
29 Jack Gunston
3 Dustin Martin
24 Jake Carlisle
40 Allen Christensen

Great post!

But i'd have Martin marginally ahead of Gunston

Club has a plan. Willing to back the new team in until they give me a reason not to

Some people just can't look past the "why'd we give up 10 for 14"

 

[Mattrox]

The "whack" more often than not has zero impact as it comes from the people who sat idly by gushing while the former administration drove this once great club into the ground. If I have to take the occasional "whack" from the "everything is awesome" crowd then so be it. Water off a ducks back.

Now where were we, favourite "tapper downs" of the last decade....W***er !

Pretty sure I wasn't gushing over past admin.

Pretty sure you shift the goal posts.

Pretty sure you rant for attention, but spit the dummy when called out.

On top of that your texan sharpshooter approach does you no favours.

You favourite line was Lou Richards' "Move the target" on the Saturday footy show. Now you've turned it into your signature move.

 

[GROTTO]

While it may appear we possibly could be served a couple of spuds today, I think we should give both players the opportunity to prove themselves as worthy of joining our Club, myself included.

A new era has dawned upon the AFC literally and I think we need to give the players, coaches and staff the time to produce the goods over summer before shooting them down before they begin. I dont think its the right message that our supporters should be sending to new players that join us.

If you had to poach a player(s) from another Club, the players that didnt partake in the winning grand final team would be a good place to start.

We are not a top 4 team, hell we are not even a top 8 team. Lets take small leaps forward like getting into the 8, by firstly ensuring the right coaches and staff are in place coupled with the right training program and the right game plan implemented for our team.

 

[Houston]

While it may appear we possibly could be served a couple of spuds today, I think we should give both players the opportunity to prove themselves as worthy of joining our Club, myself included.

A new era has dawned upon the AFC literally and I think we need to give the players, coaches and staff the time to produce the goods over summer before shooting them down before they begin. I dont think its the right message that our supporters should be sending to new players that join us.

If you had to poach a player(s) from another Club, the players that didnt partake in the winning grand final team would be a good place to start.

We are not a top 4 team, hell we are not even a top 8 team. Lets take small leaps forward like getting into the 8, by firstly ensuring the right coaches and staff are in place coupled with the right training program and the right game plan implemented for our team.

Quality post.

 

[GROTTO]

I'm really surprised at the number of people who think the pick number is the only factor in determining if a player is going to be a star.

Great Post +1

Its a bit of pet like of mine and I love that you bring it up, to look at players we could have drafted with our picks. If you think the processes in place at the moment in todays world are tough for the 17,18 years olds, expect them to be a lot more scientific in the future in testing them in who can cut it and who cant.

In a perfect world your draft picks are plenty enough for any Club to rebuild or build towards a flag if you pick the best player available at the time of your selection. The problem is that the draft is still a hit and a miss job. Look at Melbourne they should be a bona fide top 8 team by now, given the number of early draft choices, but they have squandered them all.

Where I see the future of drafting is that the process of selection is going to be a lot more tougher and rigorousness compared to even to today's standards which is demanding enough as it is. Clubs in the future will invest more and $$$ into this area in being able to identify the correct choice as opposed to the perceived best choice. The difference is subtle but the end result is poles apart. One results leads to mediocrity the other leads to a premiership.

 

[Schulzycrow]

So redhorse care to share what happened?? Or is this a long term woo?

 

[GROTTO]

So redhorse care to share what happened?? Or is this a long term woo?

In fairness to redhorse he broke the story before it was even mentioned in the media. I think he has a year pending before the village forces him out!

Fishing is a patient exercise.

 

[Flip Side]

Would we lose anything if we convinced Giles that he'd come in and play ahead of Jenkins? Giles is clearly better in the ruck, but he's also a better contested mark, better kick, more aggressive at the man, and an all round smarter footballer.

Essentially they play different positions. Crows use Jenkins as a fwd and Giles has played both ruck and fwd. He is much better as a ruck than as a fwd.

I won't go into differences in athleticism, speed, or development arcs. Rather than argue your assumptions you can look at the stats and come to your own conclusions.

Feel free to Google AFL player comparisons and look at different seasons. They have a similar number of games which makes for good career average comparisons.

Giles best year was in 2012 in which he kicked 18 goals.