List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[Jack is Back]

[QUOTE="DangerSloane, post: 34146833, member: 133301]

Given the loss of draft picks previously, we badly need to get some more 18 year old talent through the door to set up for the future.
Its hilarious to watch the people that want us to blindly play the kids be the same people that want us to trade our first round pick every bloody season.[/QUOTE]

As the founding member and President of the "Play the KIDS" Society I refute this allegation.

Do teams need 2 gorilla defenders? Whilst it hurts like hell when Witts out marks the opposition defenders in the goal square once or twice a season, relatively few goals are kicked from contested marks. There are many more goals kicked from players getting free over the back due to the lack of pace of the chasing defender. The way the game is being played at the moment, it will be a while before we see a 190 cm, 98 Kg key defender challenging for an all Australian spot.

The first thing I would do is to give Hartigan and Luke Thompson an opportunity to show what they have to offer over the last 6 weeks of the season. I agree that we can trade in good quality 2nd/3rd tall defenders without spending a fortune (check out what Sydney have done over the years). If your going to trade high draft picks it should be for a key forward or a gun midfielder. I am comfortable building a forward line around Tex, JJ, Ranga and Eddie and we have more than enough inside midfielders. The recruitment of Eddie and Charlie has fixed up our greatest weakness in recent seasons.

I would use our first pick (9 - 12) on the best outside midfielder we can find and I wouldn't complain if we did the same with our second pick.

 

[Matman23]

clearly the rucci article has been noticed and hence why the phil davis topic has arisen on this board aha

It was brought up on here a week or so ago. Brutha.

 

[DangerSloane]

Probably - obviously you'd go pretty hard with 2nd + Jaensch maybe.

It is the glaring weakness in the list.

The glaring weakness is outside run and ball use.
Now while being a good user for a KPD, Davis will not fix either of these needs.

Giving up Jaensch for him is just further creating a hole in ball use and speed. Plus GWS just wouldnt do it.

 

[DangerSloane]

As the founding member and President of the "Play the KIDS" Society I refute this allegation.

Do teams need 2 gorilla defenders? Whilst it hurts like hell when Witts out marks the opposition defenders in the goal square once or twice a season, relatively few goals are kicked from contested marks. There are many more goals kicked from players getting free over the back due to the lack of pace of the chasing defender. The way the game is being played at the moment, it will be a while before we see a 190 cm, 98 Kg key defender challenging for an all Australian spot.

The first thing I would do is to give Hartigan and Luke Thompson an opportunity to show what they have to offer over the last 6 weeks of the season. I agree that we can trade in good quality 2nd/3rd tall defenders without spending a fortune (check out what Sydney have done over the years). If your going to trade high draft picks it should be for a key forward or a gun midfielder. I am comfortable building a forward line around Tex, JJ, Ranga and Eddie and we have more than enough inside midfielders. The recruitment of Eddie and Charlie has fixed up our greatest weakness in recent seasons.

I would use our first pick (9 - 12) on the best outside midfielder we can find and I wouldn't complain if we did the same with our second pick.

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said.
I would like to see us grab a project KPD with our 3rd pick. Whether that be via trade or via draft.

Also wouldnt mind us looking hard at Tomlinson. As far as I'm concerned he would add a lot more to our list than Phil Davi$

 

[Shoota Welsh]

You honestly think Phil Davis is the difference between an average defence and a top defence?

no but we dont have a good second KPD. also smith becoming elite and henderson returning as well as brown towelling up as small defender. not solely davis but this added with other factors this year

 

[Shoota Welsh]

It was brought up on here a week or so ago. Brutha.

lel my bad

 

[DangerSloane]

no but we dont have a good second KPD. also smith becoming elite and henderson returning as well as brown towelling up as small defender. not solely davis but this added with other factors this year

I guess my question is would you prefer Phil Davis, or a gun 18 year old outside midfielder.

For mine its an easy question to answer

 

[Tex200]

The glaring weakness is outside run and ball use.
Now while being a good user for a KPD, Davis will not fix either of these needs.

Giving up Jaensch for him is just further creating a hole in ball use and speed. Plus GWS just wouldnt do it.

So first you ask whether I would do a first " because that's what it would take" - now you say GWS wouldn't do it.

What exactly is your position on that? If it's the latter then your first question was pointless, unless you were laying the foundation to win your own argument - again, pointless.

I disagree with you in any event - a ready made , quality , KPD is critical - more so than the outside mid IMO

 

[Tex200]

[QUOTE="DangerSloane, post: 34146833, member: 133301]

Given the loss of draft picks previously, we badly need to get some more 18 year old talent through the door to set up for the future.
Its hilarious to watch the people that want us to blindly play the kids be the same people that want us to trade our first round pick every bloody season.

As the founding member and President of the "Play the KIDS" Society I refute this allegation.

Do teams need 2 gorilla defenders? Whilst it hurts like hell when Witts out marks the opposition defenders in the goal square once or twice a season, relatively few goals are kicked from contested marks. There are many more goals kicked from players getting free over the back due to the lack of pace of the chasing defender. The way the game is being played at the moment, it will be a while before we see a 190 cm, 98 Kg key defender challenging for an all Australian spot.

The first thing I would do is to give Hartigan and Luke Thompson an opportunity to show what they have to offer over the last 6 weeks of the season. I agree that we can trade in good quality 2nd/3rd tall defenders without spending a fortune (check out what Sydney have done over the years). If your going to trade high draft picks it should be for a key forward or a gun midfielder. I am comfortable building a forward line around Tex, JJ, Ranga and Eddie and we have more than enough inside midfielders. The recruitment of Eddie and Charlie has fixed up our greatest weakness in recent seasons.

I would use our first pick (9 - 12) on the best outside midfielder we can find and I wouldn't complain if we did the same with our second pick.[/QUOTE]
Did you see Clarkson work our defence out?

The only reason he could do that was because, take Talia out, we are rubbish

 

[Shoota Welsh]

I guess my question is would you prefer Phil Davis, or a gun 18 year old outside midfielder.

For mine its an easy question to answer

well i certainly wouldnt trade my first round pick for a player who has been injured for the majority of his time at GWS BUT if the price was right and we could get a good trade for him id be happy. why cant we have both? wouldnt mind bringing in davis and pickett thats for sure!

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Is co-captain of the giants and contracted until 2016 and would normally think a trade like this is no chance. However after his last injury where he almost lost his kidney he may be thinking how he wants to be close to family, friends and his partner so he might actually be asking for a trade on compassionate grounds.

And while it would free up a fair bit of cap room, compassion can only get you so far so would still need something of value in return.
Anyway most likely just a rumour that will come to nothing.

 

[DangerSloane]

well i certainly wouldnt trade my first round pick for a player who has been injured for the majority of his time at GWS BUT if the price was right and we could get a good trade for him id be happy. why cant we have both? wouldnt mind bringing in davis and pickett thats for sure!

Id love to get Phil back.
I rate him, but cant relistically see him taking the required pay cut OR getting him for a good price from GWS.

 

[simmo97]

anyone who thought going after Scott Lycett was a good idea can forget about it with Dean cox to retire at the end of the year.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-21/cox-calls-it-quits

 

[Bring back Bas]

I'm always surprised at how little value some place on high quality KPD. I see suggestions that its simply a matter of scouring the state leagues and getting one on the rookie list.

We have the 2 options in our squad - Talia a first rounder, Hartigan/Thompson rookies. I know who I prefer.

While the game continues place such a high value on KPF it is critical that teams also value the KPD to defend them. The future shows no signs of the lessening of KPF stocks so defence, whilst not the sexy position, needs attention.

I think Hawthorn exposed our lack of class in defence by taking Talia away from key contests - we need to address this before it becomes the norm.

No issues with trading in Davis

This is one of the better posts I have read. That being said if Davis walks out on his club for a second time (this time one that he is the inaugural captain of) there have to be big question marks over his character and I don't want him at the AFC.

 

[Shoota Welsh]

Id love to get Phil back.
I rate him, but cant relistically see him taking the required pay cut OR getting him for a good price from GWS.

i agree but is GWS really going to continue paying him this ridiculous, overinflated salary? i doubt it. i would say his next contract anywhere will be a significant pay cut. surely he cannot expect to get the same money

 

[DangerSloane]

So first you ask whether I would do a first " because that's what it would take" - now you say GWS wouldn't do it.

What exactly is your position on that? If it's the latter then your first question was pointless, unless you were laying the foundation to win your own argument - again, pointless.

I disagree with you in any event - a ready made , quality , KPD is critical - more so than the outside mid IMO

I'm saying that they wouldnt do it for Jaensch and a 2nd rounder as you suggested.
They'd probably do it for our first though which is where I said "thats what it would take"

You say critical to success but look at the previous 5 grand final winners and their individual defenders.
Hawthorn - average (Lake (>30 version), Schoenmakers, Stratton)
Sydney - average (Grundy, Richards)
Geelong - average (Taylor, Lonergan)
Collingwood - average (Brown, Reid, Maxwell)

Alot of those guys are low picks, or recycled players.
Often teams have one good key backmen, and the rest are filled by role players.

I'd rank Talia a better defender than all of the players listed there.

You're right in that we have a need in the backlines. I'm just not sure we should be giving up much currency for a guy with consistent injuries, who is used to a big pay packet.

 

[StonesThrow]

Definitely one of our two needs. If there is any truth to this that is. He is contracted so asking price goes up a little.

I would think GWS would be after our first rounder, which would be around pick 10 (ironically what we paid in the first place). Personally think this is too high and a pick around 20 is what he is truly worth.

Maybe our 2nd rounder and a player. But GWS would be after someone half decent.

Will also depend on who we are looking at drafting and then the possibility of pick trading if we don't think we can get the player we want with 10 anyway.

 

[Draft Bored]

I'm thinking O'Rourke if anything. Fast medium defender to replace Reilly.

Mainly because he's uncontracted which gives GWS less bargaining power.

 

[mattymac]

anyone who thought going after Scott Lycett was a good idea can forget about it with Dean cox to retire at the end of the year.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-21/cox-calls-it-quits

Port board

 

[Matman23]

I guess my question is would you prefer Phil Davis, or a gun 18 year old outside midfielder.

For mine its an easy question to answer

There is no guarantee that our first pick is going to be a gun. Especially in the next few years. It could be the next Tambling we draft, with Davis we know exactly what we are getting.

I'm not for trading our first pick, but drafting is no guarantee.

 

[The Kedge]

We'd be stupid not to take Davis considering our current situation. If we're going to compete for a flag with this list we will be coming up against some massive forward lines with 3 bigs. Do we really want Hartigan & Otten to be going up against franklin & reid, Dixon & day or Patton & Boyd? And who's to say we won't take a tall with our first round pick? Would you prefer Davis or say jake lever?

 

[chook94]

Compare the pair...

Talia - 21, pretty impressive 2013 with some comparisons being made to a young Nathan Bock. Rebound defender and prolific ball user whose had games at 30 + disposals. On the outer at the kennel and would cost 'at best' a 2nd round pick. Could also help secure the long term future of Dan. Some talk over sibling rivalry and competitiveness which would hopefully bring out the best in Brad and Bob, perhaps this would also be the case for them?

Davis - 24 (in Aug), Haven't seen a huge amount, but is a solid defender who loves to handball (lol) and I think would absolutely thrive being the 2/3 best defender. Questions over his injuries...Many suggesting a first round pick for him, not to mention how much $$$. Potentially could help to secure a long-term deal for Patty D?

 

[screech]

This is one of the better posts I have read. That being said if Davis walks out on his club for a second time (this time one that he is the inaugural captain of) there have to be big question marks over his character and I don't want him at the AFC.

This

We have been burnt once, let's not stick our hand back in the fire

No way I want to see him anywhere near the AFC - he took the money and ran.

 

[DangerSloane]

Definitely one of our two needs. If there is any truth to this that is. He is contracted so asking price goes up a little.

I would think GWS would be after our first rounder, which would be around pick 10 (ironically what we paid in the first place). Personally think this is too high and a pick around 20 is what he is truly worth.

Maybe our 2nd rounder and a player. But GWS would be after someone half decent.

Will also depend on who we are looking at drafting and then the possibility of pick trading if we don't think we can get the player we want with 10 anyway.

I think there will be plenty of players left at pick 10 that we'd have our eye on.
I know its not a deep draft, but i wouldnt be happy with us paying the same price for Davis now with all his injuries and another 5 years down the track.

 

[DangerSloane]

Also guys if it came down to it, would you prefer Davis back at the club and Dangerfield gone?

Because thats what it may come down to if we're offering too much money to Davis, when we could've gone with another option for a third of the price.