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List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

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Mattrox said:
We won't for a very long time if we drop down the table for picks and waste the prime years of the core of our side and watch them leave slowly over the next few years.
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Do you think Gwilt or Robinson will help win a flag?

If we can't retain players due to losing then we are screwed no matter what. Port kept all their players, Western Bulldogs have etc.
 

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alex_is_on_fire said:
Thats ok - you are allowed to counter my negativity with some positivity?

Post something positive - not a rumour or a guess but something genuinely positive.

CEO? not yet
Senior assistant - not yet
free agents - no A graders on the radar
List manager - no, not yet.
Assistant coaches changes - not yet

So, you are allowed to counter my negativity with some positivity.
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We didn't lose last weekend..
Smack & Graham are gone.
 
crowman_23 said:
I don't disagree with you in regards to picking up players simply for the fact that they're available. I get the reasoning behind the Pods, but agree it was not going to get us any better.

Out of interest, which way do you think we should go, in terms of tying to bring in top end talent or through bottoming out and going the draft, because it seems as though you think it needs to be one or the other?

For mine, there is not certainty that the draft brings with it the gold that every supporter so hopes with early picks. I understand why Collingwood went so hard at trading out older players for first round picks a few years back, but for mine has set them back and I don't see them being that great anytime soon either, I think everyone gets lost in the hope of what young players who were drafted high can bring.

In terms of having the genuine chance you want, I think at the core we have some very good players, and we should try and get some more talent around them, but it's not so simple, particularly when majority of top end talent that are FA will choose a top performing club. I genuinely see our issue in the past 5-6 years has been keeping our talent together, no denying with Gunston, Tippett and Davis still on the list we would be right up there. We drafted well with 'average' picks, but through a range of different reasons lost some of that top end talent that would have us really competing.
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For me, I don't believe we bottom out with deliberate intent, that will simply see us become a St Kilda or Melbourne. No on wants that. However, we have to simply work with what you have. We should have backed smack in or LJ and said, you have 10 weeks to make it happen. We are backing you in. Faith in someone ability does somer wonderful things to their confidence and then the sky is the limits.

However, I imagine their confidence was shot the day Pods walked in the door knowing they were pushing shit up hill to get a fair go this season.

Winning is about risk taking. If we want to win big, we need to take big risk. The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward. Go big or go home and we must back the players we have in. It that ultimately has us finishing 16th - we finish 16th. That leads to a massive reward as we get a top end talent to add to the stable. However, I strongly believe we also have the players that can improve and have us finish top 6 and then we can move forward by building on the team list each year. But right now, we are right where we are this time last year.

I don't see Guilt or Robinson getting to past the top 8 and then that takes 2 extra players out of the development phase.
 
TheTruthMeter said:
How's this for a Big Fish guess

Orange Ruffy is a fish

Orange Ruffy = Gary Rohan ?
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I'm a stunned mullet that anyone considers Rohan a big fish. Or that posters think no one from Freo is a decent target (Jeez Mundy is so middle of the road ).

But maybe it is someone from the pies. Mmm fish pie....
 
images
anyone drawn a bow this long yet?
 
Elite Crow said:
Do you think Gwilt or Robinson will help win a flag?

If we can't retain players due to losing then we are screwed no matter what. Port kept all their players, Western Bulldogs have etc.
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No. The thing is if our front line defense cops injuries we need comeptent depth until we know who our long term personelle are.

Talia, Brown, Smith, Jaensch, Laird and it slides away very quickly. Not doing anything is just negligent. If Hartigan and Siggins aren't working out "Draftee X" might get some games. We still need competent players until we delist who we don't need and recruit/draft/develop longer term solutions.

I'm not suggesting we specifically pick up Gwilt and/or Robinson. But to rule out player that will improve our side until long term solutions are found is short sighted.

If we did pick up a blue collar type any additional signing of a "good" player (or drafting of a gun that slid) would significantly improve our side.
 
tinman said:
I'm a stunned mullet that anyone considers Rohan a big fish. Or that posters think no one from Freo is a decent target (Jeez Mundy is so middle of the road ).

But maybe it is someone from the pies. Mmm fish pie....
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Mundy is great but 29yrs old now. Freo don't have any Victorian's to get excited about off the top of my head
 
Mattrox said:
No. The thing is if our front line defense cops injuries we need comeptent depth until we know who our long term personelle are.

Talia, Brown, Smith, Jaensch, Laird and it slides away very quickly. Not doing anything is just negligent. If Hartigan and Siggins aren't working out "Draftee X" might get some games. We still need competent players until we delist who we don't need and recruit/draft/develop longer term solutions.

I'm not suggesting we specifically pick up Gwilt and/or Robinson. But to rule out player that will improve our side until long term solutions are found is short sighted.

If we did pick up a blue collar type any additional signing of a "good" player (or drafting of a gun that slid) would significantly improve our side.
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Picking up average players isn't short sighted?
 
alex_is_on_fire said:
We should have backed smack in or LJ and said, you have 10 weeks to make it happen. We are backing you in. Faith in someone ability does somer wonderful things to their confidence and then the sky is the limits.

However, I imagine their confidence was shot the day Pods walked in the door knowing they were pushing shit up hill to get a fair go this season.
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Well if they gave up and weren't prepared to fight for a spot, and earn it, we should have delisted them way before now.

They were on the list before Pods arrived, and Pods really took Tex's spot. If they were good enough, they would have still made the team.

Let's see what these guys do at their new clubs. LJ is probably a trade, but if we can't find him a home, delist. If they go on to dominate at other clubs then Adelaide can cop some flack and I'm prepared to say I must also be a poor judge too. I wish these guys all the best, I really do, and hope they can make it at AFL level. But before they do that they'll probably both need to find another club. LJ is already on his second club, and if they are so immensely talented that all it needs is a show of confidence in them, no doubt there will be a queue of suitors.
 

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alex_is_on_fire said:
For me, I don't believe we bottom out with deliberate intent, that will simply see us become a St Kilda or Melbourne. No on wants that. However, we have to simply work with what you have. We should have backed smack in or LJ and said, you have 10 weeks to make it happen. We are backing you in. Faith in someone ability does somer wonderful things to their confidence and then the sky is the limits.

However, I imagine their confidence was shot the day Pods walked in the door knowing they were pushing shit up hill to get a fair go this season.

Winning is about risk taking. If we want to win big, we need to take big risk. The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward. Go big or go home and we must back the players we have in. It that ultimately has us finishing 16th - we finish 16th. That leads to a massive reward as we get a top end talent to add to the stable. However, I strongly believe we also have the players that can improve and have us finish top 6 and then we can move forward by building on the team list each year. But right now, we are right where we are this time last year.

I don't see Guilt or Robinson getting to past the top 8 and then that takes 2 extra players out of the development phase.
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Fair enough. I think Sando definitely over-rated in the list and what someone like Pods could do for it.

Our recruiting has certainly picked up from the old days, and losing those first 2 rounds in the last 2 years is starting to show its effects already, but I think with the likes of Talia, Jacobs and Tex, along with the mids of Danger, Sloane, Smith and the Crouch's, we have the base to think we can move higher. We need to fill our weaknesses, KPD and skilled outside mids, as we have all discussed for a while. How we go about this from now is where it will get interesting.

Like a lot on here though I don't think the likes of Lyons or Grigg are going to be anything more than good backup players, so I'm not so concerned about them not getting the crack like the two you've names above.

I also think a lot on here think we need 25-30 players who are all above average, where I feel your lower players can be of lower quality, and get brought up by the players around them. Plenty of the recent premiership sides have had weaker players at the lower end who get brough to the higher level by systems, structures and players around them, I still feel that each week with the Hawks now. I think we have the top end talent, but need to fill our major holes, and majorly improve on our systems and structures so that the lower end players can fit in and play at a competitive level in high pressure situations, even if they aren't the top end talent.
 
tinman said:
Well if they gave up and weren't prepared to fight for a spot, and earn it, we should have delisted them way before now.

They were on the list before Pods arrived, and Pods really took Tex's spot. If they were good enough, they would have still made the team.

Let's see what these guys do at their new clubs. LJ is probably a trade, but if we can't find him a home, delist. If they go on to dominate at other clubs then Adelaide can cop some flack and I'm prepared to say I must also be a poor judge too. I wish these guys all the best, I really do, and hope they can make it at AFL level. But before they do that they'll probably both need to find another club. LJ is already on his second club, and if they are so immensely talented that all it needs is a show of confidence in them, no doubt there will be a queue of suitors.
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Did you go to every training session.

Do you know the exact role they were give, things they were asked to do.

How do you know they gave up.
 
Any chance LJ could request a trade to Port?

We don't really have him in our plans and he might be a replacement for Schulz over the next year or 2.

What would we want for him? What would anyone pay for him?
 
crowman_23 said:
Fair enough. I think Sando definitely over-rated in the list and what someone like Pods could do for it.

Our recruiting has certainly picked up from the old days, and losing those first 2 rounds in the last 2 years is starting to show its effects already, but I think with the likes of Talia, Jacobs and Tex, along with the mids of Danger, Sloane, Smith and the Crouch's, we have the base to think we can move higher. We need to fill our weaknesses, KPD and skilled outside mids, as we have all discussed for a while. How we go about this from now is where it will get interesting.

Like a lot on here though I don't think the likes of Lyons or Grigg are going to be anything more than good backup players, so I'm not so concerned about them not getting the crack like the two you've names above.

I also think a lot on here think we need 25-30 players who are all above average, where I feel your lower players can be of lower quality, and get brought up by the players around them. Plenty of the recent premiership sides have had weaker players at the lower end who get brough to the higher level by systems, structures and players around them, I still feel that each week with the Hawks now. I think we have the top end talent, but need to fill our major holes, and majorly improve on our systems and structures so that the lower end players can fit in and play at a competitive level in high pressure situations, even if they aren't the top end talent.
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Then you can expect more of the same.

I'm sorry my negativity annoys yo, the cluelessness from the club over where we really are does the same to me.
 
Elite Crow said:
Picking up average players isn't short sighted?
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All sides have average players. Not plugging gaping holes is criminally short sighted.

The notion that player x is not a premiership quality player is a myth.

No one is suggesting loading up on average players. But delisting F grade players and bringing in a C+ grade player (amongst other draftings and trades) is not a bad thing to do. It is only part of a whole strategy..
 
Some Norf supporters feel that Levi Greenwood will go extremely close to winning their B&F......

Does this translate to big fish
 

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alex_is_on_fire said:
Then you can expect more of the same.

I'm sorry my negativity annoys yo, the cluelessness from the club over where we really are does the same to me.
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And your suggestion is to drop down the ladder and be like Melbourne or Saints?

Or how do you plan to get the top end talent to take us higher?

Because I think our top 6 now are good enough and we need another 6-7, I want much of the same? What is your master plan to avoid that?
 
alex_is_on_fire said:
For me, I don't believe we bottom out with deliberate intent, that will simply see us become a St Kilda or Melbourne. No on wants that. However, we have to simply work with what you have. We should have backed smack in or LJ and said, you have 10 weeks to make it happen. We are backing you in. Faith in someone ability does somer wonderful things to their confidence and then the sky is the limits.

However, I imagine their confidence was shot the day Pods walked in the door knowing they were pushing shit up hill to get a fair go this season.

Winning is about risk taking. If we want to win big, we need to take big risk. The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward. Go big or go home and we must back the players we have in. It that ultimately has us finishing 16th - we finish 16th. That leads to a massive reward as we get a top end talent to add to the stable. However, I strongly believe we also have the players that can improve and have us finish top 6 and then we can move forward by building on the team list each year. But right now, we are right where we are this time last year.

I don't see Guilt or Robinson getting to past the top 8 and then that takes 2 extra players out of the development phase.
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crowman_23 said:
And your suggestion is to drop down the ladder and be like Melbourne or Saints?
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because this is what I said

Or how do you plan to get the top end talent to take us higher?

Because I think our top 6 now are good enough and we need another 6-7, I want much of the same? What is your master plan to avoid that?
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see above.
 
alex_is_on_fire said:
because this is what I said



see above.
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So which players on our list would you play this 10 games which are going to change our fortunes? For 2 seasons what good would have this done us without picks in the first 2 rounds.

So you think our squad at present is up to moving much higher up the ladder just by giving guys in the 2's a go?

Certainly the top 2 teams by a long way at the moment (Hawks and Swans) have not used the strategy of only use what they have got. They've recruited for specific purposes, with great success.
 
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