List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[Topkent]

Thanks for all the replies, sounds like a small defender/tagger

 

[aneale]

Walsh on 5AA. Says the downgrade was the obvious because of the "we can get the guy at 14". Did mention the need for outside run, so sounds like they could go that way with pick 14.

They are clearly fishing for someone that other Clubs don't rate, or fit their need. The 'draft the best talent' rule may not be applied so much this year and we are looking for something in particular, like yes, an outside run player. Bar Danger, who could play outside, we have none and may just be going for a kid everyone has at pick 17-22 for example.

 

[NikkiNoo]

2nd round picks don't win flags. Sure you might get lucky - but have a look at what the premiership lists are built around.

Thats elite talent that come through either:

A. Drafting top end talent
B. Trading in top end talent

We have done neither of this.

To use the old internet saying "all we are doing is shuffling deck chairs on the titanic".

Losing Smack, Petrenko, Graham, Porps, Johnston - doesn't hurt us all.
Losing Picks 31, 47 doesn't hurt us.
Gaining Picks 35 doesnt help us
Gaining Cheney doesnt help us

All of the above doesn't impact our best 22 at all.

Lowden may help us.

Our decision to move from #10 to #14 potentially could really hurt us if a player we rate in the top 5-6 players slides over the next month. We are messing around with our 1 chance to improve our top end talent. Its stupid. So stupid.

What do people talk about when they discuss Sydney and Hawthorn and their trading in to suit needs? They rarely trade in top end talent (Franklin and Tippet the odds one out). They trade in players that are either just in the 22 in other teams or just outside and set them up within their own structure.

Cheney does help us. We have lost Otten and Henderson is useless when he has to actually defend. We need a solid, contributing 3rd tall. Cheney gives us some experience there.

We HAVE elite talent, we just need some depth and some youth around our needs. Outside speed, ruck and defence. We got some depth and youth in one go in Cheney and Lowden. Now to see what they bring in at the draft and then I'm interested in going to training to see positional changes and the structure that Walsh will put in place.

 

[GROTTO]

Essendon got Giles for nothing, had we secured him we could have kept 10 and 31

Its a little worrying when posters in here are making better decisions than the Club.

 

[TexFactor]

Walsh re leadership leads me to believe the guy wearing number 9 will be captain next year.

hope so. always been the obvious choice to me.

 

[splat868]

Depth?

Who knows how Cheney will go? He has not played more than 10 games in a season since his debut season with Melbourne in 2009. There is a massive difference in him needing to fill in at 10th place Adelaide than needing to plug a hole in well drilled, we don't turn the ball over, 3 grand finals in 3 years Hawthorn.

In 6 years on AFL lists - he has not made himself a best 22 player. He was not a highly talented junior either. His entire job at Hawthorn was to fill a gap in a well oiled machine and not completely shit the bed. He has shown nothing that he can be a longterm AFL footballer.

I don't hate the Lowden pickup. 23 and the right size. Better than having Graham still here i guess.

Cheney has played his games in 3 categories if you were to simplify his games.


Vfl - where he wins or breaks even in his position the majority of the time.

AFL as med/tall where he wins or breaks even most of the time.

AFL as a KPD where is is giving up 10CM and 15 Kg and gets monstered.

In the SEN reviews of his AFL games, even the reviewers make comment about how the coach is killing Cheney's career.

So while there are no guarantees, I think if he is used to his strengths, he could be best 22.

 

[headache1]

Walsh re leadership leads me to believe the guy wearing number 9 will be captain next year.

Would be a great choice. He's played like a captain from the moment he stepped on an AFL field.

 

[GROTTO]

Jesus Phil Walsh is impressive. Love the things he says no bs.

5AA???

Good wasnt it?

Liked how apparently he pulled down individual pictures of players at the Club and wanted more team photos.

I get the feeling he wants the time to change and modify the list over a couple of years.

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

never lied mate. Always stated I was passing on information.

Still two days to go and finally got a message back this morning about JC. The Crows were reliant on moving up the draft order with trades to make it happen and satisfy GWS (Can't confirm if it was a Danger trade). The Boyd and Griffen situation has changed things alot and seems times beating all parties. If it doesnt happen this year my mate says almost definatly it will next.

Still can't get any info on Cheney but we are still in hunt for Schoenmakers.

I stand by my mates info, I said hawks would try and trade schoey and this is correct.

happy last trade days! Im off to Anglesea via tullamarine tonight. Have to keep my eyes peeled.

So, I've done a bit of research on the redhorse goss and claim about Eddie last year and Jezza this year saying he had a common sauce from a management company. Eddie and Jeremy are both managed by the same company, which is where he says the info is coming from. Eddie by Ned Guy and Jez by Alex McDonald.

http://mcdonaldsports.com.au/ourpeople.php

From there you can also click on the talent to verify this.

I'd say there is definitely a fire smoldering here, just need to chuck some logs on it over the next 12 months (and not let 16 other clubs beat us to the punch)!

 

[mickfaxis]

Look I know some people just love being negative, or are Rucci, but according to everyone else our trading and drafting record has been good. Geelong and lately Hawthorn are the measuring sticks but we have been very good by any fair measure which is why we have always had a good list without bottoming out for 5 years like most clubs. We have had some lower end first round picks that haven't worked out but that is true of every club and nearly every trade we have made has been successful. There is actually good reasons why our people like Fantasia, Rendell and Trigg get head hunted by other clubs, as unpopular as that fact might be to most people on here.

Anyway I hope we never take the tanking road and keep putting up a competitive team every year. I am fully aware how difficult that is in an artificially levelled playing field and so will continue to be happy with our approach as long as we keep getting it right.

Supporters look at things with critical eyes. It's a natural part of following a club and it's fortunes. Our trading and drafting on the whole the last 10-15 years has been barely a pass mark. How can we be in a situation, before this trading period, where we had no ruck back-up for Sauce, no key position defender apart from Talia, and most importantly...and something that has haunted us for years....no speed at all in our midfield. We have failed in these areas to trade and recruit players over the past 5-10 years that fill those gaps.

Nearly every trade has been successful? Not sure where you get your information from, but Tambling, Brad Moran, Angus Graham, and Lewis Johnston have definitely NOT been successful. That's 4 guys out of 8 we've traded for in the last few years. Half of them are rubbish, not "nearly every".

 

[GROTTO]

So while there are no guarantees, I think if he is used to his strengths, he could be best 22.

Walshy did say he is a chance for the best 22 and is competing as the third tall defender.

 

[AFC979810]

What do people talk about when they discuss Sydney and Hawthorn and their trading in to suit needs? They rarely trade in top end talent (Franklin and Tippet the odds one out). They trade in players that are either just in the 22 in other teams or just outside and set them up within their own structure.

Cheney does help us. We have lost Otten and Henderson is useless when he has to actually defend. We need a solid, contributing 3rd tall. Cheney gives us some experience there.

We HAVE elite talent, we just need some depth and some youth around our needs. Outside speed, ruck and defence. We got some depth and youth in one go in Cheney and Lowden. Now to see what they bring in at the draft and then I'm interested in going to training to see positional changes and the structure that Walsh will put in place.

Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong trade in to suit needs because they have the framework and Elite talent. We don't have that.

I am sorry - but how can you think our top end talent is as good as Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong? These teams have all finished top 4 multiple times over the past 5 years. We haven't.

Throw in Mitch Morton, Matt Spangher, Kyle Cheney into our team from 2013/2014 and they will perform just as well as Petrenko, Johnston, et al.

 

[GROTTO]

I'd say there is definitely a fire smoldering here, just need to chuck some logs on it over the next 12 months (and not let 16 other clubs beat us to the punch)!

It took the Swans about 12 months to get Buddy, these kind of deals do take time to plan and to implement a strategy to getting them.

GWS will want a kings ransom for JC.

 

[PykeDream]

Our decision to move from #10 to #14 potentially could really hurt us if a player we rate in the top 5-6 players slides over the next month. We are messing around with our 1 chance to improve our top end talent. Its stupid. So stupid.

I definitely don't like the Pick 10 downgrade.

I thought WCE were really stupid when they did a similar thing with Collingwood last year. Conceding Aish doesn't look too clever right now.

If the player you 'would have taken at 10' is still there at 14, you're probably picking the wrong player.

 

[AFC979810]

We HAVE elite talent, we just need some depth and some youth around our needs. Outside speed, ruck and defence. We got some depth and youth in one go in Cheney and Lowden. Now to see what they bring in at the draft and then I'm interested in going to training to see positional changes and the structure that Walsh will put in place.

And - what does adding Lowden do to improve our best 22? Sauce was in All Australian form in 2014. Lowden aint improving that.

Adding more average players like Cheney to our lineup doesn't really equal depth either. Shaw, Cheney, Henderson, Hartigan, L Thompson.... meh.

 

[mickfaxis]

Well, the 11 played 10 games, the 6 didn't and has done a knee.

Time will tell whether Scharenberg, Aish and Freeman end up better than Sheed. I'm willing to bet they will be!

 

[TheGriff6]

Would be a great choice. He's played like a captain from the moment he stepped on an AFL field.

Dont count out the guy wearing number 13

 

[TexFactor]

5AA???

Good wasnt it?

Liked how apparently he pulled down individual pictures of players at the Club and wanted more team photos.

I get the feeling he wants the time to change and modify the list over a couple of years.

that's what I got from it. he aint f**cking around. he is here for the long haul and is gonna do his best to turn things around his way until he succeeds, or we tell him he aint wanted anymore. good signs.

 

[Tex200]

And - what does adding Lowden do to improve our best 22? Sauce was in All Australian form in 2014. Lowden aint improving that.

Adding more average players like Cheney to our lineup doesn't really equal depth either. Shaw, Cheney, Henderson, Hartigan, L Thompson.... meh.

Lowden improves us without doubt.

He only needs to be an improvement on Graham or Smack - not Jacobs.

He clears that easily

 

[Ravenous Crow]

The swapping of draft picks is baffling. Just absolutely baffling. It defies common sense. Teams are trading away valuable commodities to get the best picks. And we are deliberately giving away 4 spots at the best end of the draft to gain 12 spots at the lottery part of the draft.

This is turning into some Oakland Raiders type shit.

My problem with swapping the picks is that the club is assuming the player order is fairly set and we're not going to have access to the consensus top talent regardless of whether we pick at 10 or 14.

But sporting drafts are so hilariously volatile that you won't really know what's going to happen until the draft actually takes place. In the lead up, certain players will be hyped on potential and come from nowhere to be considered top 5 picks, others will fall away, some will be rumoured to have attitude problems. On the actual day, some teams will be drafting based on needs whilst others go purely on best available, some teams will make reach picks and muck themselves up, another team might be set on one player but then end up going for a slider who unexpectedly slipped down to their pick.

I mean, you can say (and no matter what, the crows will say) that we're going to get the same guy at pick 14 as we would at pick 10. But at this point, we have no idea how the draft will actually shake out and a pick downgrade could turn out to be pretty meaningful.

 

[MRB37]

I definitely don't like the Pick 10 downgrade.

I thought WCE were really stupid when they did a similar thing with Collingwood last year. Conceding Aish doesn't look too clever right now.

If the player you 'would have taken at 10' is still there at 14, you're probably picking the wrong player.

Not always. Teams have different needs and preferences and not everyone drafts "best available".

 

[Amacca 23]

And - what does adding Lowden do to improve our best 22? Sauce was in All Australian form in 2014. Lowden aint improving that.

Adding more average players like Cheney to our lineup doesn't really equal depth either. Shaw, Cheney, Henderson, Hartigan, L Thompson.... meh.

and how many games had sauce played b4 he came home open your eyes this kid lowden could be just as good

 

[NikkiNoo]

And - what does adding Lowden do to improve our best 22? Sauce was in All Australian form in 2014. Lowden aint improving that.

Adding more average players like Cheney to our lineup doesn't really equal depth either. Shaw, Cheney, Henderson, Hartigan, L Thompson.... meh.

The pressure put on JJ. Lowden can play forward as well. Competition for spots is healthy and one of the best ways to have improvement within a team. JJ had a good year, but we can all see that he could be better. With Lowden around he has to improve his consistency otherwise his spot will go to Lowden.

Hartigan is a KPD and it's him and Talia in the key posts. Thompson and Shaw are taller and closer to KPD without the bulk needed. Talia is an elite talent. Hartigan shows promise, just needs to be played and backed in. I see Cheney as pushing Henderson out (thank you!) and also allowing Smith to be released to the midfield. So where is the loss there? In fact putting Smith into the midfield is a gain wouldn't you think?

 

[mickfaxis]

Except you haven't looked at the circumstances.

6. Collingwood
7. Brisbane
8. Father Son Locked in
9. Melbourne
10. Collingwood.

You would absolutely assume that to make that trade - Collingwood would agree not to take West Coasts chosen target at both pick 6 and pick 10. So you have therefore removed two picks. Pick 8 was locked in for a father son.

So West Coast actually gained pick 31 for just giving up 2 spots and still secured Dom Sheed who everyone knew they were after.

That was smart trading because they lost 2 spots in the draft, secured what they wanted and got pick 31.

Us on the other hand lost 4 spots and all we gained was a 12 spot bump in the lottery part of the draft. That is a bonehead move.

If they were into Sheed and knew he'd be there at 11 then it makes sense. But will Scharenberg or Aish air Freeman be better players than Sheed? I think they will be.

It raises an interesting notion as to whether forgoing 4 or 5 spots in round 1 to get a guy who's in your home state is worth it. Time will tell I suppose. Not that that's the case with our move from 10 to 14 as there'll be no South Aussie there.

 

[AFC979810]

If you're an 'expert', why aren't you in charge then?

I don't think you have realised that you stumbled on an internet forum.