AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[Bjo187]

11 games at Carrara is a must. Gave every two weekends. One week away one at home as best they can fixture that like they do for Perth and Adelaide teams. Helps with the routine.

I think the biggest thing to fix for the suns is the terrible experience getting to and from the ground. My pies mate went the other night and said it took him 90 minutes both ways, he holidays on the gold coast multiple times per year and says he's unlikely to go again with his kids because of this. It's been an issue since the stadium opened.

 

[GC2015]

With all due respect, you are just factually incorrect.

The Titans have only averaged more than 19k once; 21,618 in 2008.

Their average attendance in their "golden period" (which wasn't so golden FTR) was-

07 - 16,815
08 - 21,618
09 (semi) - 18,871
10 (prelim) - 17,877
11 (spoon) - 15,428

After they won the spoon in 2011 their numbers trend downwards until 2015, where they tank to 11k, before trending up again after their third finals appearance in 2016 (8th also-rans), peaking again at 14k in 2018, then they bottom out at 11k again when they win the spoon again in 2019.

Source- https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams/gold-coast-titans/seasons.html

Hmm the rl tables website has it like this for Titans' home crowds in those years:

2007 - 21.4k (12 home games)
2008 - 21.6k (12 home games)
2009 - 19.7k (13 home games)
2010 - 20.4k (14 home games)
2011 - 15.4k (12 home games)
2012 - 14.4k (12 home games)
2013 - 14.1k (12 home games)

Assuming those crowds are correct, you can see the initial four years of novelty/on field success garnered 19-21k crowds and then it dramatically dropped off in 2011 when the novelty wore off and on field results dried up. Crowds then stayed there (or went even lower) for over a decade. Now we're back around 14k again in 2025. I just don't see this growth you were referring to and I definitely see a very clear difference in crowds between the first four years of novelty/on field success vs the following 15 years, with 2023 + 2024 receiving a spike mainly due to the excitement surroudning Hasler's appointment IMO.

BTW, Des didn't take the head coach role until in 2024. So his presence doesn't explain the 17k average in 2023 (they came 14th BTW), nor is Des that much of a big signing that it'd impact crowds anyway. The only coaches with a big enough profile to move the needle like that are Wayne Bennett, Craig Bellamy, and debatably Ivan Cleary.

Des isn't, and never has been on that level. He isn't even in that pack of second tier highly respected coaches anymore. He's more of a has been that hasn't been at the cutting edge of the game in over a decade at this point, but I guess that comes with the territory when your nickname is the Mad Professor.

You have to remember that Holbook was removed in June 2023 and Des was immediately announced as the coach for 2024 so we saw a spike in crowds in second half of the 2023 season as well. Prior to the Hasler announcement, there were only two Titans' home games that pulled over 15k vs the five Titans' home games that pulled over 15k after the Hasler announcement. So there's no doubt in my mind that Hasler's appointment increased the home crowd average that year, despite him not coaching until the following season. I remember there being a real sense of hope and optimism amongst Titans fans when Des was first announced and the crowd figures reflect that.

At this point you're not talking about 'community activation', whatever it is you mean by that exactly. You're just talking about a bandwagon forming because the team is successful.

Don't get me wrong, success helps in the long term, but for the most part that kind of bandwagon support isn't genuine growth or reliable support, it's the sports equivalent of a sugar rush. Little more than a passing fad.

Acitvating the community to get involved is what I'm talking about. Giving people a reason to come to the footy and hopefully giving them a good enough experience to come back next time. Of course there will be bandwagoners because the general public is always drawn to winners, but eventually you want to turn those people into rusted on fans because that's a sign of genuine growth of the fanbase. Hence why a sustained period of success is so important IMO. Like I stated in this thread earlier, I suspect you need around 5 years of consecutive on field success to achieve that goal and I'm optimistic that we (the Suns) are about to embark on a successful period that hopefully lasts for at least 5 years.

 

[The Educator]

It holds 28k. Both those crowds look about right. Certainly the second one looks 70% full.

I am saying if the second one is accurate than the first one is ridiculous. THis is what I meant by attendance inflation.....they have progressively inflated their numbers for a given crowd size

 

[RedV3x]

I am saying if the second one is accurate than the first one is ridiculous. THis is what I meant by attendance inflation.....they have progressively inflated their numbers for a given crowd size

Absolutely. That first crowd has the stadium less than half full and thinly spread.
If someone said 9k, then I'd believe them.

 

[Badger17]

Hmm the rl tables website has it like this for Titans' home crowds in those years:

2007 - 21.4k (12 home games)
2008 - 21.6k (12 home games)
2009 - 19.7k (13 home games)
2010 - 20.4k (14 home games)
2011 - 15.4k (12 home games)
2012 - 14.4k (12 home games)
2013 - 14.1k (12 home games)

Assuming those crowds are correct, you can see the initial four years of novelty/on field success garnered 19-21k crowds and then it dramatically dropped off in 2011 when the novelty wore off and on field results dried up. Crowds then stayed there (or went even lower) for over a decade. Now we're back around 14k again in 2025. I just don't see this growth you were referring to and I definitely see a very clear difference in crowds between the first four years of novelty/on field success vs the following 15 years, with 2023 + 2024 receiving a spike mainly due to the excitement surroudning Hasler's appointment IMO.

You have to remember that Holbook was removed in June 2023 and Des was immediately announced as the coach for 2024 so we saw a spike in crowds in second half of the 2023 season as well. Prior to the Hasler announcement, there were only two Titans' home games that pulled over 15k vs the five Titans' home games that pulled over 15k after the Hasler announcement. So there's no doubt in my mind that Hasler's appointment increased the home crowd average that year, despite him not coaching until the following season. I remember there being a real sense of hope and optimism amongst Titans fans when Des was first announced and the crowd figures reflect that.


Acitvating the community to get involved is what I'm talking about. Giving people a reason to come to the footy and hopefully giving them a good enough experience to come back next time. Of course there will be bandwagoners because the general public is always drawn to winners, but eventually you want to turn those people into rusted on fans because that's a sign of genuine growth of the fanbase. Hence why a sustained period of success is so important IMO. Like I stated in this thread earlier, I suspect you need around 5 years of consecutive on field success to achieve that goal and I'm optimistic that we (the Suns) are about to embark on a successful period that hopefully lasts for at least 5 years.

The Rugby League Project is the most comprehensive and reliable source for RL statistics that's publicly accessible.

With all due respect, your numbers are wrong, your understanding of the history of RL is lacking, and your understanding of cultural standards and practices in RL is wrong. From that basis of faulty information you've concocted a convenient narrative that supports your preconceived bias towards Aussie Rules.

I'm not blaming you for that, you're not a RL fan, it's whatever, I'm just telling you straight that you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[The_Wookie]

The Rugby League Project is the most comprehensive and reliable source for RL statistics that's publicly accessible.

with all due respect dude, afl tables/rl tables has been around a lot longer than RLP., as has Austadiums. And both have a proven track record. Just need to make sure you are using the right data.

Its worth noting that rltables AND Austadiums individual crowd figiures stack up with the averages posted by rltables.

Edit: one of you is citing full year stats for 2007 iincluding matches played at Suncrop, RLP is only using the average at Carrara.

Full 2007 year: 21,488, Carrara: 16815

42030​	Suncorp
17946​	Carrara
47686​	Suncorp
18021​	Carrara
17806​	Carrara
17266​	Carrara
13642​	Carrara
15306​	Carrara
17608​	Carrara
15873​	Carrara
17257​	Carrara
17423​	Carrara

 

[GC2015]

The Rugby League Project is the most comprehensive and reliable source for RL statistics that's publicly accessible.

With all due respect, your numbers are wrong, your understanding of the history of RL is lacking, and your understanding of cultural standards and practices in RL is wrong. From that basis of faulty information you've concocted a convenient narrative that supports your preconceived bias towards Aussie Rules.

I'm not blaming you for that, you're not a RL fan, it's whatever, I'm just telling you straight that you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Okay mate. Look at it however you want to look at it. I actually live on the Gold Coast and have been here every year since the Titans entered the NRL in 2007. I remember what it was like in those first four years when seemingly every second or third person on the GC was a Titans fan vs what it's like now where it's almost looked down upon to follow the Titans, even within rl circles. If the Titans fanbase truly is growing as you suggested, I'm not seeing it in and around the city and I frequent Robina regularly. In fact, I was in Robina on Sunday and I saw far more Broncos fans walking around than I did Titans fans.

with all due respect dude, afl tables/rl tables has been around a lot longer than RLP., as has Austadiums. And both have a proven track record. Just need to make sure you are using the right data.

Its worth noting that rltables AND Austadiums individual crowd figiures stack up with the averages posted by rltables.

Edit: one of you is citing full year stats for 2007 iincluding matches played at Suncrop, RLP is only using the average at Carrara.

Full 2007 year: 21,488, Carrara: 16815

42030​	Suncorp
17946​	Carrara
47686​	Suncorp
18021​	Carrara
17806​	Carrara
17266​	Carrara
13642​	Carrara
15306​	Carrara
17608​	Carrara
15873​	Carrara
17257​	Carrara
17423​	Carrara

Well I think it would be unfair to not include the Titans first ever game at Suncorp because there would have been MANY Gold Coasters who made the 60 minute trip up the M1 for that game. I did the same thing when the Suns played their first ever game against Carlton at the Gabba and that game also pulled a crowd that was larger than the capacity at Carrara. That's completely different to Magic Round IMO because MR is a marquee event where you get to see mutiple games on the same day + off field entertainment where higher drawing teams can create deception from a crowds perspective e.g. the Titans played in the game before the Broncos in Magic Round this year so of course it's going to look like a huge number showed up to watch the Titans, but the reality is it was mostly Broncos fans pushing that crowd number to 50k because their team was playing next. As opposed to the first ever Titans' home game at Suncorp where people were there to purely watch those two teams play.

 

[RedV3x]

The Rugby League Project is the most comprehensive and reliable source for RL statistics that's publicly accessible.

Yes and at times they have been grandly fudged.

 

[Aucklander]

The Rugby League Project is the most comprehensive and reliable source for RL statistics that's publicly accessible.

Well worth a bookmark.

 

[Badger17]

with all due respect dude, afl tables/rl tables has been around a lot longer than RLP., as has Austadiums. And both have a proven track record. Just need to make sure you are using the right data.

And?

Who cares if they're older.

Its worth noting that rltables AND Austadiums individual crowd figiures stack up with the averages posted by rltables.

Edit: one of you is citing full year stats for 2007 iincluding matches played at Suncrop, RLP is only using the average at Carrara.

Full 2007 year: 21,488, Carrara: 16815

42030​	Suncorp
17946​	Carrara
47686​	Suncorp
18021​	Carrara
17806​	Carrara
17266​	Carrara
13642​	Carrara
15306​	Carrara
17608​	Carrara
15873​	Carrara
17257​	Carrara
17423​	Carrara

So one of us (me) was actually comparing the crowds on the GC and the other wasn't despite having "lived it" and supposedly been in those 20k+ crowds on the GC that didn't actually happen lol.

 

[Badger17]

Okay mate. Look at it however you want to look at it. I actually live on the Gold Coast and have been here every year since the Titans entered the NRL in 2007. I remember what it was like in those first four years when seemingly every second or third person on the GC was a Titans fan vs what it's like now where it's almost looked down upon to follow the Titans, even within rl circles. If the Titans fanbase truly is growing as you suggested, I'm not seeing it in and around the city and I frequent Robina regularly. In fact, I was in Robina on Sunday and I saw far more Broncos fans walking around than I did Titans fans.


Well I think it would be unfair to not include the Titans first ever game at Suncorp because there would have been MANY Gold Coasters who made the 60 minute trip up the M1 for that game. I did the same thing when the Suns played their first ever game against Carlton at the Gabba and that game also pulled a crowd that was larger than the capacity at Carrara. That's completely different to Magic Round IMO because MR is a marquee event where you get to see mutiple games on the same day + off field entertainment where higher drawing teams can create deception from a crowds perspective e.g. the Titans played in the game before the Broncos in Magic Round this year so of course it's going to look like a huge number showed up to watch the Titans, but the reality is it was mostly Broncos fans pushing that crowd number to 50k because their team was playing next. As opposed to the first ever Titans' home game at Suncorp where people were there to purely watch those two teams play.

It doesn't surprise me that Broncos fans outnumbered Titans fans. Broncos and Warriors fans outnumbering Titans fans has been a consistent issue for the Titans forever, but if anything that's even more evidence of RL's popularity on the GC.

Aside from that your anecdotes aren't supported by the facts. I don't know what to tell you mate ¯\(ツ)/¯.

 

[GC2015]

It doesn't surprise me that Broncos fans outnumbered Titans fans. Broncos and Warriors fans outnumbering Titans fans has been a consistent issue for the Titans forever, but if anything that's even more evidence of RL's popularity on the GC.

Aside from that your anecdotes aren't supported by the facts. I don't know what to tell you mate ¯\(ツ)/¯.

You think seeing a few fans of the Broncos on game day in the same suburb as the stadium proves RL's popularity on the Gold Coast? That's like saying AFL is super duper popular on the Gold Coast because you saw a few Collingwood fans at the Emerald Lakes golf club across the road from the stadium on Suns v Magpies game day. Ridiculous.

I can tell you now that outside of game day I barely ever see any NRL paraphernalia in general day to day activities on the Gold Coast. Maybe it's different in Canberra (I assume that's where you're from based on your profile) but you seem to have the wrong idea of what's going on here on the Gold Coast.

FYI a lot of those Broncos fans that attended the game in Robina would have done the 60 minute drive down the M1 so it's definitely not indicative of RL's popularity amongst Gold Coast residents. The same thing will happen next week when the Suns host the Lions at Carrara.

 

[The_Wookie]

And?

Who cares if they're older.

The point is when it comes to crowds RLP is no more authoritative than several other sources.
and they were more accurate in this case. RLP is wrong for 2007. Period.

So one of us (me) was actually comparing the crowds on the GC and the other wasn't despite having "lived it" and supposedly been in those 20k+ crowds on the GC that didn't actually happen lol.

Dude your in an AFL forum. I havent got time for this rubbish any more.

 

[Badger17]

The point is when it comes to crowds RLP is no more authoritative than several other sources.
and they were more accurate in this case. RLP is wrong for 2007. Period.



Dude your in an AFL forum. I havent got time for this rubbish any more.

Yeah it's 'rubbish' now, because you're not happy with the outcome...

I claimed the Titans crowds on the GC, what we were actually comparing, have grown since 2019 to a similar level to what they were drawing around that 2010 golden period. The numbers show that's the case, don't have sook about it.

 

[The_Wookie]

Yeah it's 'rubbish' now, because you're not happy with the outcome...

I claimed the Titans crowds on the GC, what we were actually comparing, have grown since 2019 to a similar level to what they were drawing around that 2010 golden period. The numbers show that's the case, don't have sook about it.

Im not in the overall argument. I cared only about the 2007 data.

And Im not sooking, Im warning you, that as Moderator of this specific section, its my job to watch for trolls on AFL forums that dont seem to get that its an AFL forum.

 

[Badger17]

You think seeing a few fans of the Broncos on game day in the same suburb as the stadium proves RL's popularity on the Gold Coast? That's like saying AFL is super duper popular on the Gold Coast because you saw a few Collingwood fans at the Emerald Lakes golf club across the road from the stadium on Suns v Magpies game day. Ridiculous.

Did I say that? No, clearly I didn't.

One of the major problems the Titans have struggled with since their founding is that both the Broncos and Warriors have large cemented fanbases on the GC.

It's such an issue that it's actually noticeable in Rugby League circles, where it seems like you're almost as likely to meet a Broncos or Warriors fan from the GC as a Titans one, and when they play on GC they outnumber Titans fans more often than not.

I can tell you now that outside of game day I barely ever see any NRL paraphernalia in general day to day activities on the Gold Coast. Maybe it's different in Canberra (I assume that's where you're from based on your profile) but you seem to have the wrong idea of what's going on here on the Gold Coast.

FYI a lot of those Broncos fans that attended the game in Robina would have done the 60 minute drive down the M1 so it's definitely not indicative of RL's popularity amongst Gold Coast residents. The same thing will happen next week when the Suns host the Lions at Carrara.

I see way more American major league merchandise around than either AFL or NRL, doesn't mean that the American sports are more popular than the NRL and AFL.

Never said that Broncos fans didn't travel down in numbers from Brisbane either. In fact, one of the reasons why the NRL backed the construction of Cbus at Robina was because it's supposedly closer to the trainline down from Brisbane, which I always thought was a bit strange.

 

[Badger17]

Im not in the overall argument. I cared only about the 2007 data.

And Im not sooking, Im warning you, that as Moderator of this specific section, its my job to watch for trolls on AFL forums that dont seem to get that its an AFL forum.

Trolling. Really.

Pointing out that the AFL isn't an unimpeachable bastion of perfect purity, and that, despite what some suits in Victoria and dipshits caught in a bubble might like you to believe, it isn't, and likely never will take over the GC, let alone Queensland and the rest of world, isn't trolling.

 

[RedV3x]

I see way more American major league merchandise around than either AFL or NRL, doesn't mean that the American sports are more popular than the NRL and AFL.

But seeing more AFL merchandise than NRL is an indicator of AFL popularity as each doesn't buy the other.

 

[RedV3x]

Trolling. Really.

Your attempts to put Canberra down in favour of the N.T. show a level of paranoia that's laughable.
Your denial of NRL's crowd figure fudging is also laughable.

 

[The_Wookie]

Trolling. Really.

Pointing out that the AFL isn't an unimpeachable bastion of perfect purity,

Thats not what you did. And I was merely warning you not to go too far.
End of story.

Move on dude.

 

[1990crow]

Gold Coast need to make the finals a few times to really get this moving.

 

[PhatBoy]

I always find it interesting that one standpoint can effectively say what it wants about the respective codes and sports and its backers are just making their point, under the guise that ‘it’s an AFL forum.’

Anyone who disagrees is trolling. Are people really that incapable as adults of accepting that there are others who disagree? There are differences of opinion in literally every thread in this website. Yet this one seems absurdly untouchable even if you aren’t actually having a shot at Australian Rules.

Moderators have a job to ensure that people aren’t insulting others personally - something I’ve been guilty of a handful of times, and deliberately just clogging threads for no reason. I don’t believe it’s especially fair to accuse someone of trolling just because they’re not ‘toeing the line’ or essentially because they’re just disagreeing with a consensus

 

[stochastic]

I always find it interesting that one standpoint can effectively say what it wants about the respective codes and sports and its backers are just making their point, under the guise that ‘it’s an AFL forum.’

Anyone who disagrees is trolling. Are people really that incapable as adults of accepting that there are others who disagree? There are differences of opinion in literally every thread in this website. Yet this one seems absurdly untouchable even if you aren’t actually having a shot at Australian Rules.

Moderators have a job to ensure that people aren’t insulting others personally - something I’ve been guilty of a handful of times, and deliberately just clogging threads for no reason. I don’t believe it’s especially fair to accuse someone of trolling just because they’re not ‘toeing the line’ or essentially because they’re just disagreeing with a consensus

Yeah, but you can usually get a sense of whether someone’s trolling by looking at their post history. If most of their contributions are only in the footy industry sub-forum, then the criticism doesn’t feel especially genuine. It tends to come across less as discussion from a fan of the game and more as someone making negative comments in a space where they know it will stir reactions.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah, but you can usually get a sense of whether someone’s trolling by looking at their post history. If most of their contributions are only in the footy industry sub-forum, then the criticism doesn’t feel especially genuine. It tends to come across less as discussion from a fan of the game and more as someone making negative comments in a space where they know it will stir reactions.

I think if it was just to stir reactions it would be criticising the game everyone else follows. I haven’t been right back through the absolute bare bones of the discussion and every single post he’s made but the last dozen or so posts from him he’s not said anything derogatory about the other code.

I’ve made 50,000 posts in this forum, most of them either about cricket or about Geelong/other main board topics, with a bit of league posting. As soon as I made any positive comment about league here it wasn’t treated like a serious post and I was accused of trolling. People need to understand that a contrary view isn’t necessarily contrary just ‘for the sake of it’ or to stir others up.

 

[kalex6251]

I think if it was just to stir reactions it would be criticising the game everyone else follows. I haven’t been right back through the absolute bare bones of the discussion and every single post he’s made but the last dozen or so posts from him he’s not said anything derogatory about the other code.

I’ve made 50,000 posts in this forum, most of them either about cricket or about Geelong/other main board topics, with a bit of league posting. As soon as I made any positive comment about league here it wasn’t treated like a serious post and I was accused of trolling. People need to understand that a contrary view isn’t necessarily contrary just ‘for the sake of it’ or to stir others up.

i could point to any number of league or soccer websites where anti-AFL sentiment is rife

perhaps the lesson of respect should be a universally enforced one