List Mgmt. Aisho Going Elsewhere

[BPikkers]

From the Bears board...

Ok let's play tradsies without using Aish picks

Current picks 2,17,21,39,3rd rounder for Leuy,58, irrelvant after.

2=Schache
21=Bell+Casboult
39=Astbury/Jansen/Whitecross
17+39=Academy kids.

Think we can scrape through if we say goodbye to bastinac, and we rob Carlton for Casboult.


I hope Keays gets bid on around 5 and Hipwood around 8-10
Picks 17 and 39 wouldn't be enough points for one of them

Bell is so overrated!

 

[Apex36]

For those who think we would go to court to get Aish.
While Ed is in charge this simply will not happen. He is a supporter of the AFL rules and will not try to break them via the courts.
Brisbane are hoping against hope that Aish will not consider going to Carlton and will sign with them again.
If he holds firm that he will not sign them, and only then, will they consider trading to get a return.
Problem for them is that by then we may have used whatever package we have in other trades.
This will cone down to how hard the kid wants to go to secure a trade.
I'm not sure that I would want a player who has requested a trade to his club of choice, then been frustrated in completing that move, at my club.
I reckon he would be toxic to every new player into the environment.
Revenge is a dish best served in the change rooms.

Why would Collingwood take anything to court?

The only party likely to take legal proceedings are the Aish camp, and that's a threat that would be put to the AFL rather than Brisbane, who are operating within AFL guidelines.

In this case, the target of legal proceedings would be the draft itself being a restraint of trade. It's a battle that he has a good chance of winning. That's why the AFL and the AFLPA will step in. Nobody wants this to escalate, as the draft is a key equalisation (lol) measure in the competition. Without it the AFL turns in to the EPL, where cash is king and the biggest clubs always get the good players while the minnows don't even get close to success.

 

[PicaBoo]

Going to court won't help us in the long run. More rules will make it more difficult for us down the track. Common sense should prevail and trading should be done as professionals. Brisbane will turn around one day. Whether that will be this trade period though?

 

[morelli89]

Bell is so overrated!

He really is! Maybe it's because he's one of the few players happy to actually play for the Bears.

 

[THATSGOLD]

This is my summary of how our see our trade week panning out.

We will get Treloar but lose our first round draft picks for the next two years which will hurt.
Losing Freeman and Kennedy is bad development and will set us back a year.
Seedsman out is ok but he will fetch a pick in the 40s at best.
Aish will go to Carlton in pre season draft.
All in all Treloar is the best thing we can get from all this.

 

[Good_Old]

This is my summary of how our see our trade week panning out.

We will get Treloar but lose our first round draft picks for the next two years which will hurt.
Losing Freeman and Kennedy is bad development and will set us back a year.
Seedsman out is ok but he will fetch a pick in the 40s at best.
Aish will go to Carlton in pre season draft.
All in all Treloar is the best thing we can get from all this.

How do you stay so positive all the time?

It truly is a wonderful gift.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

I find this very strange. Redden I would totally understand not allowing him to go. If he is contracted its well within your rights and interests to say no. A West Coast first rounder (because it is so late) is not a great result, just acceptable if he was out of contract. In contract I think its not very good. It is also something of a surprise to everyone that he announced he wanted to go at the end of the season, which doesn't give the club a lot of time to re-look at its list strategy especially when an experienced player wants out.

Aish on the other hand is going and has wanted to go for a year, is now out of contract. At this point the ability to demand trades really evaporates and its in the clubs best interests to get whatever they can for him. Last year was probably an opportunity missed to offload him for something good, but I do get why it was refused - he was in contract and it gave you a chance to change his mind.

The motives behind refusing to trade him now seem to be a mixture of hurt pride and willingness to make an example of someone the club doesn't have a lot of love for. However all that is happening by refusing to trade him is degrading the Lions list further.

Like us with Freeman you just got to get on with it, you don't want guys at the club who don't want to play for you - in the end it is that simple. We will be disappointed to lose Freeman but we get another ticket in the lottery so we pin our hopes on that and back in our recruiting team to bring the goods home. If Collingwood threw a tantrum (like most of our supporters did ) he would simply go into PSD and go to the Saints for nothing. We then would have torn the club down, it just won't happen, we can't afford to be that stupid.

By Brisbane placing these demands it reduces the club's ability to negotiate the best trade available. By threatening him with the PSD as if that is a bad thing is silly. He really isn't going to be that disappointed to be at Carlton (as shocking as that is to us!), he will be paid better than top dollar for a 2 year player and be playing football in Melbourne for a big club. However, if Brisbane says we will trade Aish to any Melbourne club, sides like Carlton come to the table and offer better trades which forces us to match. Sides like Carlton now can afford to wait and hope the Collingwood deal falls through, while we can afford to offer something close to fair knowing that you get nothing if the deal falls through and we move on to other targets or keep our picks/players. We don't need to offer overs now, unless Brisbane wants to be suicidal. So even if its a mere threat the damage has been done unless they do a backflip.

Everyone now knows the only loser in the deal can be Brisbane, which is not the position you should be in. Aish should be returning something good to the club not making it worse.

I think all things considered, pick 17 for Redden is a fair deal. He's a solid B grader (albeit several years ago we had incredibly high hopes for him). I think his football has stagnated, a change of scenery will be good for him. Pick 17 helps us manipulate things more with academy players (effectively with 20% on academy players it ends up being ~pick 12).

I'll contend now, that likely, Aish did want to leave. But surely you can see our point of view in that, how could a club want to build any form of culture, if we let our top draft pick from the season before, whom performed at a very good level, leave the club. Look at it from this perspective, you definitely wouldn't have gotten crisp had the deal been Aish and 25 (sliding doors and all that).

Let's be clear, at some stage Brisbane will trade Aish. It's a bit simple judging brisbane on a statement made before trade week (we could have made a 5pm friday deadline.....we all know how reliable they are ). It's posturing to get a better deal from the AFL in regards helping retain our talent. The rest of the league almost literally look at the Lions as a nursery for talent that can be pilfered in 2 seasons time. WE can't keep bleeding top draft picks and expect to become competitive. A deal for Aish will be done, be patient, it'll go to mediation as that serves our purpose (i.e. highlighting that something needs to be done about the number of 1st round draftees that have left).

I disagree that if Aish had nominated Melbourne as a city that it reduces our bargaining power. 9 clubs in fact. You're dreaming if you think that other clubs wouldn't have come into play had Aish not just nominated you. Even in your Carlton example, you aren't taking into account that they have a player that wants to get to brissy. I'm sure Bell and a second rounder for aish could have been worked out.

As I've said before, what Freeman has done severely limits your options as well (albeit the lions have been through this type of things near enough 10 times in the past 5 seasons). I don't think Freeman would get to the saints, either in the draft or PSD FWIW either,

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

So certain players can leave after 2 years and others can't. Do you just keep changing the goalposts to try to suit your argument

Have you figured out the key differences in the situation yet or are you still trying to peddle the double standards line?

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

That's literally all this is. It's ego driven and an attempt to "make an example" out of a kid who is literally completely within his rights as an uncontracted player to request a trade to another club.

This could also be spite, but even then, we came to a reasonable trade with Brisbane last year for Beams so not sure what they have to be spiteful about. This time last year, Brisbane had a shit eating grin on their faces when it was widely accepted they "won" the Beams trade. So now they're all pissy when it's eventuated that we did?

This whole situation isn't a knock on Collingwood. I think, as the dust settles on last seasons trade period, both sides are really happy with how the Beams trade worked out. You're taking it far too personally if you think otherwise.

Its Aish and Pickering, and the way they've dealt with the situation that has got the club offside. I think if they'd been more forthcoming with the truth things would be slightly more amicable with them, but they weren't so they need to sweat...

 

[ottoman]

Have you figured out the key differences in the situation yet or are you still trying to peddle the double standards line?

Mate your club is holding a 19yo kid to ransom. A kid who made it quite clear that if selected he would probably not hang around. All I see is a football club bullying a kid and no amount of spin you put on it will change that situation.
Try to convince yourself that what Brisbane is doing is right as much as you like. Any half decent person sees exactly what your club is doing and I have noticed that even the anti Collingwood media is coming out and questioning the actions of your club.

 

[Sauras]

Mate your club is holding a 19yo kid to ransom. A kid who made it quite clear that if selected he would probably not hang around. All I see is a football club bullying a kid and no amount of spin you put on it will change that situation.
Try to convince yourself that what Brisbane is doing is right as much as you like. Any half decent person sees exactly what your club is doing and I have noticed that even the anti Collingwood media is coming out and questioning the actions of your club.

You do realise Brisbane don't have to trade him don't you? Where does it say, if a player requests a trade the club MUST do it? Worst case he goes in draft and will still be traded to a Vic team anyway.

 

[ottoman]

You do realise Brisbane don't have to trade him don't you? Where does it say, if a player requests a trade the club MUST do it? Worst case he goes in draft and will still be traded to a Vic team anyway.

I am pretty sure that at no stage in any of my comments did I say what your club was doing was against the rules. Doesn't change the fact that you are bullying a 19yo kid. Your not sending him to the draft because Collingwood is offering a ridiculous trade. Your not even willing to negotiate. Your taking the life of a young kid and holding him to ransom just so you can feed your egos. I find it disgusting

 

[SApies]

You do realise Brisbane don't have to trade him don't you? Where does it say, if a player requests a trade the club MUST do it? Worst case he goes in draft and will still be traded to a Vic team anyway.

Asks for a priority pick.
Sends a top 10 pick to the PSD.

#beingbrisbane

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Mate your club is holding a 19yo kid to ransom. A kid who made it quite clear that if selected he would probably not hang around. All I see is a football club bullying a kid and no amount of spin you put on it will change that situation.
Try to convince yourself that what Brisbane is doing is right as much as you like. Any half decent person sees exactly what your club is doing and I have noticed that even the anti Collingwood media is coming out and questioning the actions of your club.

No. You are simply seeing it from one side, not looking at it from any other point of view. I don't even think you've read any other post I've made in regards to why we're doing it (probably because it doesn't suit your rhetoric).

 

[76woodenspooners]

This whole situation isn't a knock on Collingwood. I think, as the dust settles on last seasons trade period, both sides are really happy with how the Beams trade worked out. You're taking it far too personally if you think otherwise.

Its Aish and Pickering, and the way they've dealt with the situation that has got the club offside. I think if they'd been more forthcoming with the truth things would be slightly more amicable with them, but they weren't so they need to sweat...

What should Aish and Pickering have done differently?

Given (1) Aish doesn't want to play for Brisbane anymore and (2) he is uncontracted ... Isn't it his prerogative to to sever his employment? He's nominated a destination employer, who are happy to negotiate a deal with Brisbane for Aish's services.

How is what Aish and Pickering have done to Brisbane much different to what Brisbane have done to Adcock?

Shouldn't Brisbane have been more forthcoming with the truth to Adcock, rather than mucking him around?

 

[Sauras]

What should Aish and Pickering have done differently?

Given (1) Aish doesn't want to play for Brisbane anymore and (2) he is uncontracted ... Isn't it his prerogative to to sever his employment? He's nominated a destination employer, who are happy to negotiate a deal with Brisbane for Aish's services.

How is what Aish and Pickering have done to Brisbane much different to what Brisbane have done done to Adcock?

Shouldn't Brisbane have been more forthcoming with the truth to Adcock, rather than mucking him around?

Stop making stuff up. Adcock was offered a contract but was also told there was no guarantee he'd play every game (unlike previous years where he was an automatic selection). How much more upfront could you be? We could have offered him a contract then played him the twos, but we told him how it is and he didn't like it.

 

[ottoman]

No. You are simply seeing it from one side, not looking at it from any other point of view. I don't even think you've read any other post I've made in regards to why we're doing it (probably because it doesn't suit your rhetoric).

I have read your posts. And mainly what I read from you is victim mentality. Your not questioning why people want to leave, your just trying to force them to stay. "make a stand" so to speak.
You know both our clubs are in a similar situation in that a top 10 pick is asking to leave after 2 years. In our case a player who has not even played a game. The difference is

Brisbane - Screw him, we won't be trading him. He can go to the PSD.
Collingwood - We are disappointed but respect his decision. We will get him to the club he wants. "we won't be silly about it"

One is a professional approach and the other is just stupid

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

What should Aish and Pickering have done differently?

Given (1) Aish doesn't want to play for Brisbane anymore and (2) he is uncontracted ... Isn't it his prerogative to to sever his employment? He's nominated a destination employer, who are happy to negotiate a deal with Brisbane for Aish's services.

How is what Aish and Pickering have done to Brisbane much different to what Brisbane have done done to Adcock?

Shouldn't Brisbane have been more forthcoming with the truth to Adcock, rather than mucking him around?

Do you know the in's and outs of the the adcock position. He had a contract offer (mid season) but also wanted guaranteed playing time. WE couldn't give him that guarantee, at which time we retracted the offer. At no stage have we mucked him around. He wasn't happy with our terms, we've decided to go our separate ways.....

Aren't you offering an ideal that Aish wanted out last season? If so, why didn't he speak up then? Why continually postpone contract talks if he never wished to actually engage in them? You are right in some respects, but he is still contracted to the lions until after the trade period. Then it becomes his prerogative to get to where he wants in either the draft or PSD.

Offering a 2nd rounder and oxley isn't really a good start to negotiations.........

 

[76woodenspooners]

Stop making stuff up. Adcock was offered a contract but was also told there was no guarantee he'd play every game (unlike previous years where he was an automatic selection). Adcock knocked the offer back and is now looking elsewhere.

LOL

You missed the bit where Brisbane withdrew their offer ... Which Adcock only found out about when he went to sign it

 

[Sauras]

I have read your posts. And mainly what I read from you is victim mentality. Your not questioning why people want to leave, your just trying to force them to stay. "make a stand" so to speak.
You know both our clubs are in a similar situation in that a top 10 pick is asking to leave after 2 years. In our case a player who has not even played a game. The difference is

Brisbane - Screw him, we won't be trading him. He can go to the PSD.
Collingwood - We are disappointed but respect his decision. We will get him to the club he wants. "we won't be silly about it"

One is a professional approach and the other is just stupid

If Collingwood really want him, they'll offer accordingly. If Brisbane still say no then that's the way it is, but please don't offer 2nd rounders and dud players. That's just wasting our time.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

I have read your posts. And mainly what I read from you is victim mentality. Your not questioning why people want to leave, your just trying to force them to stay. "make a stand" so to speak.
You know both our clubs are in a similar situation in that a top 10 pick is asking to leave after 2 years. In our case a player who has not even played a game. The difference is

Brisbane - Screw him, we won't be trading him. He can go to the PSD.
Collingwood - We are disappointed but respect his decision. We will get him to the club he wants. "we won't be silly about it"

One is a professional approach and the other is just stupid

Again. that is all supposition on your behalf.

We can turn this around with beams from last season (setting deadlines etc) and comparing to how we've treated redden this season if you like. One is a professional approach and the other is just stupid

 

[ottoman]

If Collingwood really want him, they'll offer accordingly. If Brisbane still say no then that's the way it is, but please don't offer 2nd rounders and dud players. That's just wasting our time.

Wouldn!t it be lovely if the clubs could negotiate. Unfortunately one club is refusing to do so. And Oxley is not a dud. Also last I checked a 2nd rounder and a player is greater than zero

 

[ottoman]

Again. that is all supposition on your behalf.

We can turn this around with beams from last season (setting deadlines etc) and comparing to how we've treated redden this season if you like. One is a professional approach and the other is just stupid

I do believe we traded Beams. Last I checked we didn't send him to the draft. And also he was a contracted player yet we still met his wishes. So yeah it is a huge difference.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Wouldn!t it be lovely if the clubs could negotiate. Unfortunately one club is refusing to do so. And Oxley is not a dud. Also last I checked a 2nd rounder and a player is greater than zero

Do you actually have any proof that we aren't negotiating for Aish, or are you still you basing this on Lethal's tough talk pre trade week/month?

 

[Sauras]

Wouldn!t it be lovely if the clubs could negotiate. Unfortunately one club is refusing to do so. And Oxley is not a dud. Also last I checked a 2nd rounder and a player is greater than zero

Offer pick 7 and I bet we sit down and listen. You instead want to use that on Treloar, so as much as Collingwood say they will do as much as they can to get Aish, are they really?