All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Markfs]

An interesting development has been how india has been drawn into this by Modi for his own reasons. The Times of India is probably as believable as any other online site in the world. But their angle is that Biden has spoken to hamas directly and offered them a deal. Who would believe biden? Is Hamas that stupid? You could argue that Israel might have told biden to make the call but there's no way that israel is going to stop the bombing. That's a red line.

 

[manicpie]

Hamas has an armed wing and was thought to have about 30,000 fighters before the start of the war. The group, whose name stands for Islamic Resistance Movement, wants to create an Islamic state in place of Israel. Hamas rejects Israel's right to exist and is committed to its destruction.5 Apr 2024

 

[Markfs]

The polls in the US and israel give an indication where the situation will go. Biden is losing support and trump is gaining it because of the way the israelis are handling gaza. In israel, the people generally want the return of the hostages and then a return to killing palestinians. It's a question of which preference is more urgent. Biden has offered US info that would allow israel to target hamas leaders, so israel could get the hostages back and then kill the hamas leadership.

The elimination of the hamas leadership wouldnt deal with the issue of too many palestinians living in and around gaza and israel. Biden could offer visas to a million palestinians and this might be acceptable to the israeli cabinet and the US could require satellite countries like australia to take a percentage. i dont think that is politically possible. Not even the right in both the US and Australia would like to see a large influx of palestinians, however much they love israel.

The polls in israel are putting pressure on netinyahoo to get the hostages back, but his coalition wont hold if he stops killing palestinians. He will need to deliver "safety" and a promised land for any chance of remaining in power. The return of the hostages wont give him anything in the long term.

Starvation still seems to be the best strategy for israel. It may allow them to keep the US onside. The US leadership would be happy to see the palestinians starved out, except for the election implications. However, starvation is still more preferable than videos of babies with blood on them. The control of the rafah gate by the israelis might indicate that are willing to embrace the trickle approach of starvation with a lower level bombing/drones aspect. The other aspect of the control of the gate is that they might open it at a time of stress to release the palestinians into egypt and then hope that the international community wont send them back. There were reports some time back that a camp site was being created outside the gate.

I really think that biden is conflicted with his christian zionist beliefs and his desire to win the election. His whole political career has been supported by israeli and jewish american interests. It would be amazing for him to rebuff them now. He might just have to accept that he is going to lose the election and maybe get an israeli medal in a year or so. The israelis will be sure to venerate him.

You have to ask yourself where the parties will be in 3 or 4 months time. If hamas gives up the hostages, they will die and they will die if they wont. Netinyahoo's only chance is to rid the area of palestinians to bring about "safety" and the promised land. Biden has probably lost the election and can only hope to retain his place in israeli history. The only positive for the palestinians is the student protests. However, as Biden's popularity drops, the effect of the students is declining. Also, their standing is being marginalised by the american media.

 

[sr36]

The polls in the US and israel give an indication where the situation will go. Biden is losing support and trump is gaining it because of the way the israelis are handling gaza. In israel, the people generally want the return of the hostages and then a return to killing palestinians. It's a question of which preference is more urgent. Biden has offered US info that would allow israel to target hamas leaders, so israel could get the hostages back and then kill the hamas leadership.

The elimination of the hamas leadership wouldnt deal with the issue of too many palestinians living in and around gaza and israel. Biden could offer visas to a million palestinians and this might be acceptable to the israeli cabinet and the US could require satellite countries like australia to take a percentage. i dont think that is politically possible. Not even the right in both the US and Australia would like to see a large influx of palestinians, however much they love israel.

The polls in israel are putting pressure on netinyahoo to get the hostages back, but his coalition wont hold if he stops killing palestinians. He will need to deliver "safety" and a promised land for any chance of remaining in power. The return of the hostages wont give him anything in the long term.

Starvation still seems to be the best strategy for israel. It may allow them to keep the US onside. The US leadership would be happy to see the palestinians starved out, except for the election implications. However, starvation is still more preferable than videos of babies with blood on them. The control of the rafah gate by the israelis might indicate that are willing to embrace the trickle approach of starvation with a lower level bombing/drones aspect. The other aspect of the control of the gate is that they might open it at a time of stress to release the palestinians into egypt and then hope that the international community wont send them back. There were reports some time back that a camp site was being created outside the gate.

I really think that biden is conflicted with his christian zionist beliefs and his desire to win the election. His whole political career has been supported by israeli and jewish american interests. It would be amazing for him to rebuff them now. He might just have to accept that he is going to lose the election and maybe get an israeli medal in a year or so. The israelis will be sure to venerate him.

You have to ask yourself where the parties will be in 3 or 4 months time. If hamas gives up the hostages, they will die and they will die if they wont. Netinyahoo's only chance is to rid the area of palestinians to bring about "safety" and the promised land. Biden has probably lost the election and can only hope to retain his place in israeli history. The only positive for the palestinians is the student protests. However, as Biden's popularity drops, the effect of the students is declining. Also, their standing is being marginalised by the american media.

I still think enough persuasion will be put on Egypt to open their border and make a part of the Sinai an open air prison in place of Gaza.

 

[manicpie]

The polls in the US and israel give an indication where the situation will go. Biden is losing support and trump is gaining it because of the way the israelis are handling gaza. In israel, the people generally want the return of the hostages and then a return to killing palestinians. It's a question of which preference is more urgent. Biden has offered US info that would allow israel to target hamas leaders, so israel could get the hostages back and then kill the hamas leadership.

The elimination of the hamas leadership wouldnt deal with the issue of too many palestinians living in and around gaza and israel. Biden could offer visas to a million palestinians and this might be acceptable to the israeli cabinet and the US could require satellite countries like australia to take a percentage. i dont think that is politically possible. Not even the right in both the US and Australia would like to see a large influx of palestinians, however much they love israel.

The polls in israel are putting pressure on netinyahoo to get the hostages back, but his coalition wont hold if he stops killing palestinians. He will need to deliver "safety" and a promised land for any chance of remaining in power. The return of the hostages wont give him anything in the long term.

Starvation still seems to be the best strategy for israel. It may allow them to keep the US onside. The US leadership would be happy to see the palestinians starved out, except for the election implications. However, starvation is still more preferable than videos of babies with blood on them. The control of the rafah gate by the israelis might indicate that are willing to embrace the trickle approach of starvation with a lower level bombing/drones aspect. The other aspect of the control of the gate is that they might open it at a time of stress to release the palestinians into egypt and then hope that the international community wont send them back. There were reports some time back that a camp site was being created outside the gate.

I really think that biden is conflicted with his christian zionist beliefs and his desire to win the election. His whole political career has been supported by israeli and jewish american interests. It would be amazing for him to rebuff them now. He might just have to accept that he is going to lose the election and maybe get an israeli medal in a year or so. The israelis will be sure to venerate him.

You have to ask yourself where the parties will be in 3 or 4 months time. If hamas gives up the hostages, they will die and they will die if they wont. Netinyahoo's only chance is to rid the area of palestinians to bring about "safety" and the promised land. Biden has probably lost the election and can only hope to retain his place in israeli history. The only positive for the palestinians is the student protests. However, as Biden's popularity drops, the effect of the students is declining. Also, their standing is being marginalised by the american media.

there's no such thing as a christian Zionist, you are either one or the other. christians believe that the jews are god's chosen people and that's as far as it goes but keep spreading the propaganda. it's not unusual for a christian to to respect the jews but you wouldn't know that because you think everyone is a catholic. i'm glad I have no idea what I'm talking about

 

[sr36]

there's no such thing as a christian Zionist, you are either one or the other. christians believe that the jews are god's chosen people and that's as far as it goes but keep spreading the propaganda. it's not unusual for a christian to to respect the jews but you wouldn't know that because you think everyone is a catholic. i'm glad I have no idea what I'm talking about

Zionism isn't the religion. It's supporting the existence of a Jewish state.

Some now use it to mean supporting an expansion of Israel.

 

[manicpie]

Zionism isn't the religion. It's supporting the existence of a Jewish state.

Some now use it to mean supporting an expansion of Israel.

Which is exactly what a Christian believes. The only ones that won't accept that the jews are god's chosen people are the catholics because they have a pope. do i have to go back to the days of Judea again?

 

[sr36]

Which is exactly what a Christian believes. The only ones that won't accept that the jews are god's chosen people are the catholics because they have a pope. do i have to go back to the days of Judea again?

What I mean is that you can be a Christian Zionist. Zionism is a political movement and not a religion.

 

[manicpie]

What I mean is that you can be a Christian Zionist. Zionism is a political movement and not a religion.

I know that mate but it's always used to denegrate the jews. a true christian has no choice but to accept that the jews are god's chosen people, there is nothing wrong with that. the catholics refuse to believe it because they their own god in the pope. It really does make a big difference and one that everyone who isn't catholic knopws and respects

 

[leon123]

To lighten the mood a little:

A man goes to the Western Wall every day to pray. The years go by, but he never wavers from his devotion. One day, after 50 years of praying, a local news crew comes by to interview the old man.

The reporter asks the old man, "What are you praying for?"

He replies, "I'm praying for peace in the Middle East."

The reporter asks, "How do you feel about praying for that for 50 years?"

The old man says, "Like I'm talking to a f*cking brick wall!"

 

[manicpie]

To lighten the mood a little:

A man goes to the Western Wall every day to pray. The years go by, but he never wavers from his devotion. One day, after 50 years of praying, a local news crew comes by to interview the old man.

The reporter asks the old man, "What are you praying for?"

He replies, "I'm praying for peace in the Middle East."

The reporter asks, "How do you feel about praying for that for 50 years?"

The old man says, "Like I'm talking to a f*cking brick wall!"

Love it and have no issues with it. This thread needs some light hearted humour

 

[Markfs]

I still think enough persuasion will be put on Egypt to open their border and make a part of the Sinai an open air prison in place of Gaza.

In the short term, it's probably the solution that is going to be acceptable with most....although there's going to be some angry palestinians who are being moved on again. Egypt will only accept a temporary period, and will want them moved out. The israelis will want them moved on to the rest of the world.

Egypt will want an economic dividend for doing this.

We might finally hear the end of the two state solution jingo...which has been annoying me for years since we saw israel take over the west bank.

 

[Markfs]

To lighten the mood a little:

A man goes to the Western Wall every day to pray. The years go by, but he never wavers from his devotion. One day, after 50 years of praying, a local news crew comes by to interview the old man.

The reporter asks the old man, "What are you praying for?"

He replies, "I'm praying for peace in the Middle East."

The reporter asks, "How do you feel about praying for that for 50 years?"

The old man says, "Like I'm talking to a f*cking brick wall!"

The wall asked for a definition of what the old man meant by "peace"....

 

[Markfs]

I was just thinking about gaza and the tradition in BF of making predictions of the future.....predicting the teamsheet in round 1 etc.

I think that I had my go above. I would add the comment that Egypt will get a payout and then will stage a temporary camp for the 2 million palestinians. There is going to be a problem of getting the palestinians to move on to other countries. I think in the long term that gaza might be opened up to more european immigrant settlers and maybe a limited number of vetted palestinians will be allowed to return.

As for how many palestinians will die overall, I think most in the future will die from starvation. The israeli civilians are already blocking trucks from entering gaza and today they looted the trucks. The white house has called their actions outrageous and has put 2 red lines in place. Antony blink will fly in soon, I would think.

But if I had to make a guess, I think under 50,000 palestinians will die by the end of this year in and around gaza. There might be more in the west bank but that will depend on trump getting in and giving the israelis the ok for a full takeover.

 

[sr36]

The wall asked for a definition of what the old man meant by "peace"....

It's an old wall. It would know its Latin. Peace and Pacify both come from "pax". Romans talked about Pax after they had massacred and thus pacified the locals in the place they were invading.

 

[Markfs]

It's an old wall. It would know its Latin. Peace and Pacify both come from "pax". Romans talked about Pax after they had massacred and thus pacified the locals in the place they were invading.

i think the old man's peace means the ability to walk up to the temple mount and enter the new temple...

 

[leon123]

I've put it through the AI site and it seems this joke is anti-semitic. It seems jesus was retrospectively branded a christian, because he lived and died as a jew and he rose up and then sailed into the heavens as a jew.

though well, I dont discriminate, i discriminate everyone

 

[Markfs]

though well, I dont discriminate, i discriminate everyone

There's only one true god...I think people should just give up all this stuff from the past.

 

[leon123]

There's only one true god...I think people should just give up all this stuff from the past.

Agreed Im a devout Pastafarian.
"We need never doubt our Divine Carbohydrate, for even our DNA is shaped like a noodle so we know that pasta is holy"



"

 

[petrie pie]

Maggie5

Lebanon was the only Christian Republic in the middle East , it was prosperous country and arts and science flourished , Muslims came in as “refugees” and by use of “civil rights” protests and Arab money gained sufficient political power to finally begin the systematic murder of all Christian's in Lebanon…over 90,000 Christians died in the genocide…the history of this has been wiped from school textbooks…
This is the reason why your parents had to live in a refugee camp.

Lebanon was part of the Ottoman empire for centuries and they did have a civil war in the 70,s and lot,s of people died certainly more than a 100.000 and the Christians too did their fair share of killing also. Maggie 5 was certainly lucky his family were in neither Shatila or Sabra refugee camps as you are such a fountain of knowledge about the middle east you will enlighten people what the Christians did there after being let in by the IDF under Sharon.

The only reason the israeli sympathisers want this thread closed is because they have lost the argument already about what a decent and democratic country Israel is.

 

[manicpie]

Lebanon was part of the Ottoman empire for centuries and they did have a civil war in the 70,s and lot,s of people died certainly more than a 100.000 and the Christians too did their fair share of killing also. Maggie 5 was certainly lucky his family were in neither Shatila or Sabra refugee camps as you are such a fountain of knowledge about the middle east you will enlighten people what the Christians did there after being let in by the IDF under Sharon.

The only reason the israeli sympathisers want this thread closed is because they have lost the argument already about what a decent and democratic country Israel is.

Blah, blah, WGAF, not me

 

[manicpie]

Why couldn't the Palestinians blow up a toy robot? Because it had an iron dome.

 

[manicpie]

There's only one true god...I think people should just give up all this stuff from the past.

Who is it

 

[petrie pie]

I still think enough persuasion will be put on Egypt to open their border and make a part of the Sinai an open air prison in place of Gaza.

Israel has already broken the Camp David peace treaty by taking control of the Rafa crossing and as a result Egypt has joined the SA,s in attempting to stop the Israeli Genocide in Gaza.
What the Israeli,s are hoping to do is banish the Palestinians to the Sinai where they become Egypt,s problem with partners like Israel who needs enemies.

So Israel has 2 choices either slaughter everybody in Rafa or force them into Egypt the Israeli,s of course have already tried to drag Iran in and now setting their sights on Egypt but they are such a peace loving country.

 

[petrie pie]

Blah, blah, WGAF, not me

I thought you were interested in a debate about the Christians in Lebanon but maybe not when someone rightly contradicts you about what Hawi and Gemayel got up to in the Lebanese civil war, they were backed by Israel and they did more than their fair share of massacre,s.

You need to read up on the lebanon civil war then you may understand the Palestinian,s plight and how they have been treated as Lepers by Jews,Christians and a lot of their fellow Arabs.