All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[IlovethePies]

You do realise you are trying to pass as fact to an Israeli Jew, that the Holocaust Revisionism authored by Mahmoud Abbas The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism, which was widely supported by the Soviets is true.

You do realise who Mahmoud Abbas is don't you and what his day job is...

Zionist Federation of Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ZEV]

I am against all nation states. The nation state system is leading to world war 3. No nation state has the historical legitimacy to exist today.

Ok so you are against a Palestinian state.

You have some pretty horrific views.

I can't figure you out, you promote Holocaust Revisionism in one sentence, deny Palestinians the right to a state and self determination in the next.

 

[IlovethePies]

Ok so you are against a Palestinian state.

You have some pretty horrific views.

I can't figure you out, you promote Holocaust Revisionism in one sentence, deny Palestinians the right to a state and self determination in the next.

I do not promote holocaust revisionism, that is a totral lie and slander, which is typical of Zionist propaganda.
I believe in the world socialism, in which all nation states will be abolished and the entire world population will have its needs fulfilled through a world planned economy.
The Palestinian and Israeli workers need to unite against both Hamas and the Israeli government. Likewise the Ukrainian and Russian workers need to unite against the Putin and zelensky governments. You are the one who is promoting horrific views.

 

[ZEV]

I do not promote holocaust revisionism, that is a totral lie and slander, which is typical of Zionist propaganda.
I believe in the world socialism, in which all nation states will be abolished and the entire world population will have its needs fulfilled through a world planned economy.
The Palestinian and Israeli workers need to unite against both Hamas and the Israeli government. Likewise the Ukrainian and Russian workers need to unite against the Putin and zelensky governments. You are the one who is promoting horrific views.

So you are unemployed?

 

[IlovethePies]

Finally Mahmoud Abbas is the leader of the PNA (Palestinian National Authority) which has collobarated totally with the Israel regime, and is in fact the major reason why Hamas won the electin in 2006 - the people of Gaza understood that the Palestinian National Authority was completely subservient to both Israel and the US, so turned to Hamas in despair, because there was no other alternative. To claim that he is a "Holocaust Revisionist" simply exposes your extremist views.

 

[IlovethePies]

So you are unemployed?

Ha Ha. That's all you've got? (contempt emoji)

 

[manicpie]

I do not promote holocaust revisionism, that is a totral lie and slander, which is typical of Zionist propaganda.
I believe in the world socialism, in which all nation states will be abolished and the entire world population will have its needs fulfilled through a world planned economy.
The Palestinian and Israeli workers need to unite against both Hamas and the Israeli government. Likewise the Ukrainian and Russian workers need to unite against the Putin and zelensky governments. You are the one who is promoting horrific views.

That sounds so far off ever happening that you'd be better off taking shrooms daily just to be able to imagine it, even then, your mind would probably drift off to more important things like, "why are my shoes changing colour " . Just can't see that ever happening

 

[IlovethePies]

That sounds so far off ever happening that you'd be better off taking shrooms daily just to be able to imagine it, even then, your mind would probably drift off to more important things like, "why are my shoes changing colour " . Just can't see that ever happening

it has already happened once Manic, in October 1917 in Russia. the issue was, then, that the revolution did not extend further than Russia.
But since it happened once, we know that it is possible again. And this time, it must extend. The alternative is the destruction of human civilisation in a nuclear war.

 

[manicpie]

it has already happened once Manic, in October 1917 in Russia. the issue was, then, that the revolution did not extend further than Russia.
But since it happened once, we know that it is possible again. And this time, it must extend. The alternative is the destruction of human civilisation in a nuclear war.

I just couldn't imagine it in today's world. Way too much greed and power hungry psychos in power all over the world. It would require all humans to accept each other for who they are. Can you really see that happening. However, it would solve the need for war's I suppose

 

[IlovethePies]

I just couldn't imagine it in today's world. Way too much greed and power hungry psychos in power all over the world. It would require all humans to accept each other for who they are. Can you really see that happening. However, it would solve the need for war's I suppose

There was just as much greed and just as many hungry psychos in power in 1917. There is no doubt that there are millions of humans who will accept each other for what they are: that is what the ongoing global protests against the Israeli genocide in Gaza demonstrate beyond doubt. And yes, the only way war can be prevented forever is by workers uniting internationally and overthrowing all these capitalist governments which have no other way to resolve their conflicts except through war, and genocide.

 

[ZEV]

I do not promote holocaust revisionism, that is a totral lie and slander, which is typical of Zionist propaganda.
I believe in the world socialism, in which all nation states will be abolished and the entire world population will have its needs fulfilled through a world planned economy.
The Palestinian and Israeli workers need to unite against both Hamas and the Israeli government. Likewise the Ukrainian and Russian workers need to unite against the Putin and zelensky governments. You are the one who is promoting horrific views.

Good idea mate let’s put you in charge!

 

[Markfs]

sportsbet is running the odds of a palestinian state and a utopia for workers.... both are paying $1billion on a $1 bet.

 

[manicpie]

There was just as much greed and just as many hungry psychos in power in 1917. There is no doubt that there are millions of humans who will accept each other for what they are: that is what the ongoing global protests against the Israeli genocide in Gaza demonstrate beyond doubt. And yes, the only way war can be prevented forever is by workers uniting internationally and overthrowing all these capitalist governments which have no other way to resolve their conflicts except through war, and genocide.

Let's say that the protests were successful and peace was restored, can you see Palestine forgiving Israel, as well as say, Iran? Will all of Islam forgive Israel?, because that's what would be required in order for your theory to work. I just don't think it will ever happen. How will you stop all the religions of the world to bow down and accept everyone else's faith's. It would probably require some sort of global war just to get the ball rolling. It's a good and noble proposal but it's just not realistic unfortunately

 

[IlovethePies]

Good idea mate let’s put you in charge!

Whatever mate. You are clueless, and your political views have no future.

 

[JB1975]

And yes, the only way war can be prevented forever is by workers uniting internationally and overthrowing all these capitalist governments which have no other way to resolve their conflicts except through war, and genocide.

I wish it were so, comrade, but my understanding of humanity suggests otherwise.

Nothing wrong with lopping some capitalist heads in a romantic but ultimately futile revolution, though.

On Albo, I don't like him at all. If I hear him talk about how tough his Mum did it back in the day I might start a riot myself.

But Albo's response to the ICC arrest warrants at least validated the process, whereas nuttin' Dutton mimicked his American betters and attacked the court itself.

Small difference, not insignificant though.

 

[IlovethePies]

sportsbet is running the odds of a palestinian state and a utopia for workers.... both are paying $1billion on a $1 bet.

If that is the case, Sportsbet will be bankrupted...but not before all its ill gotten profits are confiscated!!

 

[IlovethePies]

I wish it were so, comrade, but my understanding of humanity suggests otherwise.

Nothing wrong with lopping some capitalist heads in a romantic but ultimately futile revolution, though.

On Albo, I don't like him at all. If I hear him talk about how tough his Mum did it back in the day I might start a riot myself.

But Albo's response to the ICC arrest warrants at least validated the process, whereas nuttin' Dutton mimicked his American betters and attacked the court itself.

Small difference, not insignificant though

 

[IlovethePies]

But that is the point. The tiny, slippery differences are there to make you think that he is the "lesser evil", to keep you hooked to the possiblity of a "better future" under capitalism.
There is no lesser evil. Both Labor and Liberal are toxic. How can a tiny difference from what Dutton says be appropriate under conditions of genocide??

 

[ZEV]

There was just as much greed and just as many hungry psychos in power in 1917. There is no doubt that there are millions of humans who will accept each other for what they are: that is what the ongoing global protests against the Israeli genocide in Gaza demonstrate beyond doubt. And yes, the only way war can be prevented forever is by workers uniting internationally and overthrowing all these capitalist governments which have no other way to resolve their conflicts except through war, and genocide.

The global population has more than quadrupled during that period.

Your math skills are worse than your ideologies.

 

[IlovethePies]

Let's say that the protests were successful and peace was restored, can you see Palestine forgiving Israel, as well as say, Iran? Will all of Islam forgive Israel?, because that's what would be required in order for your theory to work. I just don't think it will ever happen. How will you stop all the religions of the world to bow down and accept everyone else's faith's. It would probably require some sort of global war just to get the ball rolling. It's a good and noble proposal but it's just not realistic unfortunately

But these same issues existed in Russia in 1917. There was the question of religion (Christian Orthodox vs Judaism vs Islam- in the central and southern asian regions of the former Soviet Union, such as Georgia, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc), and the question of national self determination for many populations of different ethnic backgrounds who had been suppressed by the Tsar. Yet the political program of the Bolsheviks (Lenin and Trotsky) found a way to unify all these nationalities and different religious groups in a unified struggle to overthrow the capitalist government, which had no alternative other than to continue the war.

 

[manicpie]

But these same issues existed in Russia in 1917. There was the question of religion (Christian Orthodox vs Judaism vs Islam- in the central and southern asian regions of the former Soviet Union, such as Georgia, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc), and the question of national self determination for many populations of different ethnic backgrounds who had been suppressed by the Tsar. Yet the political program of the Bolsheviks (Lenin and Trotsky) found a way to unify all these nationalities and different religious groups in a unified struggle to overthrow the capitalist government, which had no alternative other than to continue the war.

I like the concept but just can't see it happening, but who knows I suppose

 

[JB1975]

But that is the point. The tiny, slippery differences are there to make you think that he is the "lesser evil", to keep you hooked to the possiblity of a "better future" under capitalism.
There is no lesser evil. Both Labor and Liberal are toxic. How can a tiny difference from what Dutton says be appropriate under conditions of genocide??

Nothing Albo says can make me optimistic about the future of capitalism.

I'd feel more optimistic about capitalism if I was good at it, but I'm not. We're doomed.

 

[IlovethePies]

The global population has more than quadrupled during that period.

Your math skills are worse than your ideologies.

Are you a moron? You have advanced an argument which actually supports entirely mine.
The greater the population of the world, the stronger is the international working class, and the more power it has to bring the capitalists to their knees.
Anyway, last time I reply to you, because you have absolutely no clue.
(Although, if you say something egregious - which is highly likely - ) I will make a general comment to expose it.

 

[ZEV]

it has already happened once Manic, in October 1917 in Russia. the issue was, then, that the revolution did not extend further than Russia.
But since it happened once, we know that it is possible again. And this time, it must extend. The alternative is the destruction of human civilisation in a nuclear war.

Your ok with the 100 million dead?

 

[Markfs]

evidently you can kill journalists as long as they're not american....and dont steal their equipment which is far worse than sniping at palestinian journalists in gaza. And finally, the american media asks for something in return for all their phallus work over several decades...and the israelis feed them a bone. I suppose that there's the money in return for all those noble values that US journalism has sold off to bed down a history of propaganda. Anyway the camera has been returned and I expect the israelis will be rewarded with ICC bashing in the coming weeks....steady as she goes...