Altitude training thoughts

[76woodenspooners]

I've spent the last two weeks in Northern Arizona not far from Flagstaff where the Collingwood players used to train. Where I am is at 1600m. Flagstaff is at 2100m.

Collingwood have chosen to spend this offseason at home, Buckley believing that greater benefits can be achieved with a program at home. (anybody got a link to that video?) And there has been some conjecture about the physiological benefits of altitude training and how long it lasts and whether it is worth the cost.

I've got no idea about what those physiological benefits are in terms of platelets and red blood cells and, and, and, and. (there are others here who do know more about that stuff and can talk about that side of it) But I do feel the effects on my own body and it has given me a little insight into what it's about.

Now I'm a long way from being an elite athlete, but I do a little bit of running to try and maintain some semblance of fitness. So I can compare the benefits of training here at 1600m with the training at sea level I normally do around the running tracks of Sydney Harbour.

So, what it's it all about? Well, it's about a number of different things ...

(1)

Firstly, forgive me for the jargon because I really don't know what I'm talking about ... but let me try: when we normally do any sustained physical activity there is a transition between the activity going from the anaerobic state (oxygen not needed) to the aerobic state (oxygen needed). You go for a run and skip off the mark, and after a short time you start to feel a bit stuffed as oxygen is depleted from muscles. You push through it and get into a rhythm of running and breathing and elevated heart rate and pretty soon you're able to get into a comfortable stride. Doing that at altitude, the transition seems to come a lot sooner and is deeper. ie: very quickly I feel totally spent, and pushing through it is a lot harder, but when I do I feel OKish (see point 2 below). I could imagine that with a bit more training it would get a lot better as the ability of the blood to carry oxygen improves, and that could be carried back to sea level as a benefit. Not sure how long those benefits would last - but I think those who claim that altitude training benefits don't last very long are referring to this. But there are other benefits too ...

(2)

Training at altitude is so much harder on the muscles. Doing anything at altitude is harder. Even vegitating in front of the TV at altitude burns more calories than at sea-level. Even when I'm not exercising I find myself gulping an extra breath of air. And when I am exercising I breath hard - I am practically trying to hyperventilate but I just can't seem to get enough oxygen - it's a weird sensation.

It's a way of loading up the muscles - imagine carrying around hand and leg weights for a few weeks - but altitude training has the added benefit of not loading up the joints in the way that weights do.

It makes training so much harder, so it gets the body in good training condition for the start of an off-season.

But I can't imagine that training in Melbourne's 40+ deg heat would be easy on the body either.

(3)

Northern Arizona is a beautiful part of the world,. It's inspiring and makes the desire to exercise that little bit easier.

The Grand Canyon ... It just takes your breath away. Some people think about it as a big, long hole in the ground. That's not strictly true. It's more like a big long, hole in the sky ... the plateau that the Colorado river has eroded to form the Grand Canyon is at around 2200m above sea level - the same height as Mt Kosciuszko, the highest point in mainland Australia.

But it's not just the Grand Canyon, the general vista in this part of the world is stunning - it is inspiring and it really does distract you from any pain in your muscles. And even ignoring the altitude, the treks here are physically demanding.

(4)

Some call it lazy, some call it efficient - it doesn't matter, it is the same thing. We adapt to our normal environment so that we burn as little energy as we can. Getting us out of our comfort zone forces us to burn a bit more energy.

But you don't need to come to Northern Arizona or even to altitude to get that.

(5)

We've all been on school camps. We can appreciate that footy players can bond with and get to know their team-mates so much better when they're living in each other's pockets for a few weeks away from home.

And like the last point, you don't need to come to Northern Arizona or to altitude to get that benefit.

----

So yes, I definitely feel that there are benefits of altitude training camps.

But how would it compare to going away and running up and down sand dunes as Port Adelaide did at the end of last year? The differences probably wouldn't be too great.

I could imagine that the change in this pre-season and going away on local camps and doing different programs could be a good change. But I would also be surprised if Collingwood never do an altitude training camp again.

 

[piedpiper32]

Butters was big on the altitude training so no coincidence that the players are not going this year now that he is gone. Also we have the new altitude room in Melbourne now which is supposed to replicate the effects. Needless to say we will be saving a few $$$ as well.

 

[mattys123]

We have the world's biggest altitude room at the Westpac Centre now, so there's simply no benefit to us travelling overseas other than the "bonding experience" it may have.

 

[piedpiper32]

The key is how long the benefits of altitude training last. If it's only a matter of weeks or a month or so then we are not reaping much given that the camps were usually around the end of the year well before the regular season started. Having the camp later wouldn't be feasible however from a logistics point of view.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Butters claimed the effects would last around 12 weeks. The idea is to be able to fast-track a training program by - as you said - adding extra load without the muscle stress. Combine that with the effects of excess red blood cell production and it means that a pre-season can yield a couple % increase in regular training. Doesn't sound like much but when we're talking top end of the competition it is fractions of % in terms of strength/endurance.

Mind you, even better results can be had by exercising at sea level and then resting/recovering at altitude. It's just that it's not always practical in real-world situations. That's why the Westpac facilities are better value than an overseas trip, nothing to do with effectiveness of Flagstaff. Just good economics.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The key is how long the benefits of altitude training last. If it's only a matter of weeks or a month or so then we are not reaping much given that the camps were usually around the end of the year well before the regular season started.

I disagree.

Sure, there are the physiological benefits and there are question marks over how long they last.

But there is so much more to it than that.

Let me give an analogy ...

Imagine you are learning a language. You have a talent for learning languages. You go to class, you have a strong class, you have an excellent teacher. You learn the grammar and build up your vocabulary and learn all the past participles and subjuctive tenses and, and, and, and ...

... and then you go travel with your class to a foreign country where the natives speak that language. And let me tell you, you struggle. You have to use the language to eat (or go hungry). You have to use the language to ask for directions (or be lost). You have to use the language to chat up pretty girls / handsome guys. You struggle at first - the natives laugh at your attempts to speak their language, but you learn very quickly - and when the natives give you what you asked for you get inspired (particularly when it comes from that pretty girl / handsome guy ).

And then when you return back home from your trip your language skills have improved dramatically and your capacity for learning has been raised dramatically.

And so it would be with altitude training. Athletes returning from altitude training would return to their footy club with an improved fitness base (over and above the physiological benefits associated with altitude training). For example, if their 10km time has gone from 38 mins to 34 mins as a result of altitude training, the improvement may be due to improved oxygen carrying capacity (which doesn't last). But it may ***also*** be due to reduced body fat and increased muscle mass associated with the heavier training load - and that does last with sustained training.

 

[76woodenspooners]

That's why the Westpac facilities are better value than an overseas trip, nothing to do with effectiveness of Flagstaff. Just good economics.

Not necessarily.

With overseas trips the club can sell expensive tickets to a few supporters for them to join the team and help subsidise the trip

 

[76woodenspooners]

We have the world's biggest altitude room at the Westpac Centre now, so there's simply no benefit to us travelling overseas other than the "bonding experience" it may have.

When you're at altitude your body is working harder 24/7. It works harder even when you're sleeping.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Butters claimed the effects would last around 12 weeks.

From memory you went out to Sedona? I went out there the weekend before last - stunning!

 

[mattys123]

When you're at altitude your body is working harder 24/7. It works harder even when you're sleeping.

So our players should sleep in the room then? (Hey, a drunk icon, WTF?).

 

[ipswichpies]

The altitude room should be very beneficial to injuries we pick up during the season and it should help the players if they get the bends.

 

[THATSGOLD]

We'll be there at the end of 2014 I can almost guarantee that. We will have a core of players that haven't experience the trip and will be more settled in after a season of football.

 

[Lockyer24]

Getting the extra 1% is fine but if the other 99% isn't up to scratch it isn't an advantage. We certainly didn't have any extra run at the end of last year.

 

[Magpie Girl]

How much of the benefit is lost in the long flight home?

And then when you return back home from your trip your language skills have improved dramatically and your capacity for learning has been raised dramatically.
And so it would be with altitude training.

One is an intellectual exercise, the other is physical, so although I understand the analogy you are trying to make, I'm not sure it's appropriate.

It does however raise the question of how much their attitude to training is challenged, and therefore changed, by altitude training.

This may have a far more beneficial long term effect.

 

[jonbe54]

Please excuse an old fart with no medical training, but it seems to me the main effect of altitude training is to increase the benefits of sea level training by making the body work harder to reproduce the same effect, sort of like a turbo on a Nissan Pulsar sedan lol.

From what I've read it's no more than a means to get an accellerated preseason going, meaning the players are further along with the program on completion of the altitude training than they would be if done at sea level at the same time.

If that's the desired and anticipated effect then it doesn't need a long lasting effect, just enough to push the training regime into overdrive.

 

[76woodenspooners]

How much of the benefit is lost in the long flight home?

Cabin pressure is equivalent to 4000 ft - it preserves it

One is an intellectual exercise, the other is physical, so although I understand the analogy you are trying to make, I'm not sure it's appropriate.

Yeah, I probably could have thought up a better one.

But the point was being challenged, responding to that challenge, and becoming stronger because of it.

It does however raise the question of how much their attitude to training is challenged, and therefore changed, by altitude training.

This may have a far more beneficial long term effect.

Particularly after their off-season holiday?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Please excuse an old fart with no medical training, but it seems to me the main effect of altitude training is to increase the benefits of sea level training by making the body work harder to reproduce the same effect, sort of like a turbo on a Nissan Pulsar sedan lol.

From what I've read it's no more than a means to get an accellerated preseason going, meaning the players are further along with the program on completion of the altitude training than they would be if done at sea level at the same time.

If that's the desired and anticipated effect then it doesn't need a long lasting effect, just enough to push the training regime into overdrive.

You nailed it!

 

[piedpiper32]

It's interesting you bring up the analogy of going overseas to enhance your language skills. Having come to China over 10 years ago there's no doubt that it was the only way of going from a very low base to being fully fluent in the language. As Magpie Girl commented one is intellectual, the other physical so it is quite different. I am sure I will retain my Chinese language skills for life now. With altitude training however the research has shown that the effects are not long-lasting, certainly not for more than a few months. If you continue training but at sea level then the research has shown fitness levels will revert back to the mean.

I don't disagree that it may assist in getting the players' fitness up quicker and allows us to be further along in our program, but maybe this brings up another issue that we may be ramping them up too early and too quickly. Ideally we want the players ramping up at a steady pace which continues through the season up to finals. Could altitude training lead to earlier burnout and a contributing factor to our poor injury record in recent times? Maybe. That's one for the boffins and stats men.

I am not disputing that training at altitude has its benefits physically, just saying that it needs to be managed in a way that we can reap the benefits for longer. That's why having the altitude room may allow us to sustain it through the season. Apart from the possible bonding experience of a camp I just don't see enough reason for us to be sending everyone away again on these costly trips. The funds might be better spent in other areas.

 

[Captivating]

No point in being the fittest team if you can't dispose of the ball to a teammates advantage. Glad the boys are working on fundamnetals. Remember, a person can't outrun a football so moving the football quickly and accurately will beat the fastest running team.

 

[Knightmare]

Interesting read and thanks for sharing your thoughts 76.

The altitude debate is an interesting one and it will be interesting 20, 30 years from now what the sports science geeks think then but for now it feels relatively inconclusive and open to debate.

 

[piedpiper32]

No point in being the fittest team if you can't dispose of the ball to a teammates advantage. Glad the boys are working on fundamnetals. Remember, a person can't outrun a football so moving the football quickly and accurately will beat the fastest running team.

All I know is that we were far from the fittest team despite the altitude camp. It will be really interesting then to see how we go in terms of fitness this year now we have the new altitude room which can be used throughout the entire year.

 

[blaze036]

The altitude room should be very beneficial to injuries we pick up during the season and it should help the players if they get the bends.

I can't imagine you would want to use the altitude room if you had an injury, wouldn't that make the injury heal slower?

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

From memory you went out to Sedona? I went out there the weekend before last - stunning!

Sure did! Pics at http://arizona.peptolab.com

 

[rustyg70]

Sure did! Pics at http://arizona.peptolab.com

Did you feel the effects of training at altiude?
How long did it last?

 

[76woodenspooners]

I can't imagine you would want to use the altitude room if you had an injury, wouldn't that make the injury heal slower?

We have our Alter-G machines in the altitude room (aerobic training machines intended to be used by players recovering from injury).