Recommitted Andrew Gaff [re-signed]

[Suma Magic]

Question on Compo

Band 1 compo does that have to be where your club finishes or does the AFL
have the right to choose what they think the player is worth ?

So if WCE lose Gaff instead of pick 18 or 17
The AFL Steve Hocking can say he is worth pick 3 and give us fair value ?

If the AFL didn't intervene for buddy they wouldn't for gaff. Our only chance for fair compo is if we can afford to match the offer financially (forcing a trade).

 

[tiltraise]

Different clubs have different salary cap situations. Clubs like north, gold coast, carlton and st kilda have been struggling to give cash away the last couple of years. It makes sense for them to use some of their cash to pay more than a club with a tight salary cap would to attract the best talent.

Hardly any clubs would want to offer the cash that clubs in these situations are in an attempt to lure players. It just wouldn't make sense. If we did this with gaff it would be inconsistent for our approach with our other contracts.

If he leaves, the only consideration for west coast is our compensation. If its a pick in the late teens that's a poor return by any metric. If we can afford to match he will likely net us two high picks or equivalent.

I understand however if you can afford to match you can afford to pay more than you offered.

Also if you match the same offer to Gaff may not be on the table as any draft pick cost would need to be factored into the total worth of the package.

 

[Groin guru]

Yes but teams with lists of good, experienced players have less money to throw around. You don't see Geelong offering every out of contract player in the world $2m to join their club.

If Gaff joins North it will be for more than he can get at WC, that's fairly obvious.

But most teams have 1 or 2 key players (I assume Dangerfield, Selwood, and even Hawkins would be on pretty decent wages). WC just made McGovern the second highest player in the league.

North's highest paid player is Goldstein on 800k and that's only for one more season. It drops from there.

 

[frenchconnection]

Heard he isnt meeting with anyone while in melb.

Also heard he met with Essendon - who knows where the truth lies??

 

[Suma Magic]

I understand however if you can afford to match you can afford to pay more than you offered.

Also if you match the same offer to Gaff may not be on the table as any draft pick cost would need to be factored into the total worth of the package.

I agree with your first point. I was referring to a situation where he goes to a club that can only offer what we can - potentially going to the dees because he wants to move back home and be at a club that (supposedly) has a potential for success in the next few years. I agree that we won't up our offer, or at least won't up it much, if he gets a higher offer than our highest offer.

Can you re-word your second point? I can't understand it as it's written.

 

[BLERN]

Also heard he met with Essendon - who knows where the truth lies??

Well what i heard was in mainstream media. So chances are what i heard is actually the BS given where i heard it

 

[tiltraise]

Can you re-word your second point? I can't understand it as it's written.

Team X willing to pay Gaff Y to get him to move back to Vic via FA.

My point is that they may not be willing to pay the same amount if they are also required to spend draft picks to acquire him. This would need to be factored into the cost with perhaps his original team paying some of his wages which I have a feeling maybe as equally unpalatable as getting FA compo.

 

[GreatBradScott]

Andrew met with the dogs this week...

He met with a lot of people. Met with Woosha his old coach and other footy friends along the way.

 

[Suma Magic]

Team X willing to pay Gaff Y to get him to move back to Vic via FA.

My point is that they may not be willing to pay the same amount if they are also required to spend draft picks to acquire him. This would need to be factored into the cost with perhaps his original team paying some of his wages which I have a feeling maybe as equally unpalatable as getting FA compo.

Maybe. Personally I think would be hard to see a club offering Gaff a contract but saying "if they match the offer to force a trade we will have to lower our offer". or for the club to just lower the offer after it was matched, wouldn't get the relationship off to the best start.

But west coast wouldn't really care if they did. They would just be happy that they could afford to match and force a trade (and keep open the small possibility that he stayed).

West Coast wouldn't be any more inclined to pay some of his salary than in a normal trade situation. Actually, isn't this usually done only when players are already contracted (e.g. Deledio)? If this is limited to contracted players, then west coast would have to re-sign him, then the trade be completed - sounds pretty unlikely.

 

[tiltraise]

West Coast wouldn't be any more inclined to pay some of his salary than in a normal trade situation. Actually, isn't this usually done only when players are already contracted (e.g. Deledio)? If this is limited to contracted players, then west coast would have to re-sign him, then the trade be completed - sounds pretty unlikely.

Actually yes I think your right teams can only pay a portion of the salary when said player has an existing contract.

 

[tiltraise]

Maybe. Personally I think would be hard to see a club offering Gaff a contract but saying "if they match the offer to force a trade we will have to lower our offer". or for the club to just lower the offer after it was matched, wouldn't get the relationship off to the best start.

But west coast wouldn't really care if they did. They would just be happy that they could afford to match and force a trade (and keep open the small possibility that he stayed).

If Gaff is worth paying a said amount of cap space to acquire without giving any draft picks then surely he isnt worth the same amount of TPP when draft picks need to be given up as well.

My guess at least when it comes to the North part of the equation is if you match you keep him. So why not just offer him more to stay in the first place?

 

[Suma Magic]

If Gaff is worth paying a said amount of cap space to acquire without giving any draft picks then surely he isnt worth the same amount of TPP when draft picks need to be given up as well.

My guess at least when it comes to the North part of the equation is if you match you keep him. So why not just offer him more to stay in the first place?

I agree with your first sentence. I just think there are issues with this in real life. clubs would try to work out beforehand if they are likely to get him as a FA or via trade and then make their offer accordingly. I doubt they would change their offer or put forward two offers conditional on the circumstances they come to the club in.

i think if he wants to go to north then there is no way we could match. it would definitely be FA and we'd just have to eat the compo shit-sandwich. very small chance that gaff would ask to go via trade to help us, i don't think this would happen though as he would be making things worse for his new club.

I think we will put forward our best offer possible and see what happens. but if gaff was offered something slightly higher then we would be wise to match it because it would mean that we would likely get heaps more via trade. there is a small chance that he would turn around and stay, but this wouldn't be the worst outcome.

 

[telsor]

I agree with your first sentence. I just think there are issues with this in real life. clubs would try to work out beforehand if they are likely to get him as a FA or via trade and then make their offer accordingly. I doubt they would change their offer or put forward two offers conditional on the circumstances they come to the club in.

i think if he wants to go to north then there is no way we could match. it would definitely be FA and we'd just have to eat the compo shit-sandwich. very small chance that gaff would ask to go via trade to help us, i don't think this would happen though as he would be making things worse for his new club.

I think we will put forward our best offer possible and see what happens. but if gaff was offered something slightly higher then we would be wise to match it because it would mean that we would likely get heaps more via trade. there is a small chance that he would turn around and stay, but this wouldn't be the worst outcome.

Club going for him and agrees to, say $1M*5 years, in part because it will cost nothing in trade.

WCE matches.

The club that made that deal isn't going to say yeah, sure, we'll pay the same, and we'll find the 3 top 10 picks WCE wants and throw them in too.

Instead they'll talk to WCE and unless the trade deal is really cheap, they'll walk away.

That would leave WCE with a player who either doesn't want to be there or is earning significantly more than they were previously willing to offer. (depending on why Gaff is actually leaving).

Seems like a considerable risk to WCE for what would only be a moderate pick upgrade over the compo they'd otherwise get if all goes the way WCE fans seem to hope.

 

[Thetrader15]

He met with a lot of people. Met with Woosha his old coach and other footy friends along the way.

Don Pyke one of those?

 

[Suma Magic]

Club going for him and agrees to, say $1M*5 years, in part because it will cost nothing in trade.

WCE matches.

The club that made that deal isn't going to say yeah, sure, we'll pay the same, and we'll find the 3 top 10 picks WCE wants and throw them in too.

Instead they'll talk to WCE and unless the trade deal is really cheap, they'll walk away.

That would leave WCE with a player who either doesn't want to be there or is earning significantly more than they were previously willing to offer. (depending on why Gaff is actually leaving).

Seems like a considerable risk to WCE for what would only be a moderate pick upgrade over the compo they'd otherwise get if all goes the way WCE fans seem to hope.

West coast will only match if they are happy for him to stay. We wouldn’t agree to match offers that we wouldn’t be happy paying.

That way he either stays (we are happy) or he gets traded (where we got a shitload more than a pick that could be as late as pick 20 as compo. Either way, we are happy. There is no risk under this scenario.

Clubs will still want to trade for Gaff. They would probably still get a cheap deal compared to other players of similar talent/age.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Also heard he met with Essendon - who knows where the truth lies??

I doubt he met Worsfold for a potential move reckon it was just a catch up while he was in Melbourne after the events of last week.

 

[telsor]

West coast will only match if they are happy for him to stay. We wouldn’t agree to match offers that we wouldn’t be happy paying.

That way he either stays (we are happy) or he gets traded (where we got a shitload more than a pick that could be as late as pick 20 as compo. Either way, we are happy. There is no risk under this scenario.

Clubs will still want to trade for Gaff. They would probably still get a cheap deal compared to other players of similar talent/age.

If you're willing to pay the extra $$$, then why not just pay him more anyway? Most players who are happy at the club would take a little less (10%?) to avoid needing to move, so you'd actually save money. If he wants to leave for family or whatever, then he's not going to be very pleased about being forced to stay.

Adelaide forced a trade with Dangerfield....They got picks 9 & 28 for him (actually picks 11 & 33 after academy picks). They would have got pick 13 (18) anyway.. Going by the points, they benefited by 985 points...roughly equal to pick 21. Not exactly a huge win and a LONG way short of being a 'shitload more than pick 20 compo' that you seem to be expecting.

 

[Suma Magic]

If you're willing to pay the extra $$$, then why not just pay him more anyway? Most players who are happy at the club would take a little less (10%?) to avoid needing to move, so you'd actually save money. If he wants to leave for family or whatever, then he's not going to be very pleased about being forced to stay.

Adelaide forced a trade with Dangerfield....They got picks 9 & 28 for him (actually picks 11 & 33 after academy picks). They would have got pick 12 (18) anyway.. Going by the points, they benefited by 985 points...roughly equal to pick 21. Not exactly a huge win and a LONG way short of being a 'shitload more than pick 20 compo' that you seem to be expecting.

We could match the offer with the same offer that he refused. It wouldn’t have to increase.

If you think that we wouldn’t get a lot more than a pick in the late teens for Gaff then let’s agree to disagree on his trade value.

I’m not sure where you got “forced to stay” from. This isn’t actually possible under the RFA system. If a player doesn’t want to accept a matched offer he doesn’t have to. You may have to look up the system as you seem to have some fundamental misconceptions about how it works.

 

[Orange Agent]

Bloody hell this is tiresome.

Only up to page 90, long way to go, the Josh Kelly one was over 300.

 

[SwiftNShuey]

What happens if both Gaff and Lycett leave on big deals? Do we get 2 picks or are the amalgamated for 1 better pick?

 

[Candiru]

What happens if both Gaff and Lycett leave on big deals? Do we get 2 picks or are the amalgamated for 1 better pick?

Two picks.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Andrew met with the dogs this week...

Why would they be paying prime dollars for a running midfielder?

They already have 12 of them.

 

[Suma Magic]

Bombers the rumour today.

Their first and second sounds about right, assuming they can’t blow us out of the water money-wise.

 

[Candiru]

Bombers the rumour today.

Their first and second sounds about right, assuming they can’t blow us out of the water money-wise.

The fact it changes every day suggests it's up in the air.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The fact it changes every day suggests it's up in the air.

Of course it is, until he actually signs somewhere.

I truly don't believe WCE are out of the race, but i'm pretty certain only 2 other clubs were ever in the race for his services.

The bulldogs & essedon aren't those clubs.