Andy D calls for James Hird to consider stepping down

[Tas]

seriously....mmm. lets go off to a compounding chemist and ask for this recipe to be made up and then inject to our blokes..grrrr.

if its not a tga approved product, it hasnt gone through the channels to be registered for use on humans in australia.so, wtf would you inject it into healthy young male bodies.

I see your problem, it is not that you disagree with me, it is that you do not understand the WADA code. I am not giving an opinion. When it comes to non-banned substances, it either has to be approved by the TGA, or it had to be something which was supplied by a compound chemist.

I don't really care if you agree with that or not, I am not giving an opinion if it should be allowed or not, I am just saying none of the substances disclosed to date violate the WADA code.

 

[liam_13]

The media are the media. Ravenous beasts. Hated by most. Rightly so.

Essendon need to quit the cover up and start earning respect back. They have a chance to do that by standing Hird down , pending investigation, then addressing the problems honestly with the Ziggy Report.

If they don't, i suggest the AFL will.

The footy public is fed up with being fed bulltish.

What Essendon have been exposed as doing is unacceptable.

Ridiculous.

Hird may well have to stand down once the investigation is completed.

However, IIRC the club has stated that they are not going to do anything drastic until the full details of the Ziggy report/external investigations are known.

Why on earth would they stand Hird down, just further encouraging this shitstorm, before they even know if Hird has actually done anything immoral or illegal?

As for your cover up comment, that's ridiculous. I don't know about most people but the fact they are standing strong and banding together as a club in the midst of this is pretty impressive. I respect the fact they haven't gone and taken drastic action, that they believe in themselves and will wait for due process.
Just because they are waiting for the investigations to be completed (ones they haven't even been interviewed in FFS) does not make this a cover-up. It makes it a thorough investigation with consequences to be determined after any malpractice/illegal methods/use is proven.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

The conduct of Wilson, Mitchell and co., salivating over the potential sacking of a high profile coach and champion of the game, is distasteful. I am unsure why Wilson in particular continues to write about the game given she so clearly reviles so many of its protagonists. AD did try to avoid agreeing that Hirdy should consider stepping down, but a more appropriate response from him would have been "As AFL CEO it would be inappropriate for me to speculate about the future of a senior coach who has not yet even been afforded the opportunity to convey his side of the story." AD's comments were unbecoming a CEO and exploited by an opportunistic media. He should not have allowed himself to be sucked in.

Having said this, if the allegations in the media are true that Hirdy knowingly:

• Allowed players to be injected with substances not approved in this country for use on humans; and/ or
• Allowed players to be administered via i.v. - a practice which Richard Ings has said "may be against the WADA code" and/ or
• Was himself injected with PEDs

...then he may well have done nothing that contravenes the WADA code. He will, however, have potentially failed in his duty of care to the players and the game. Unfortunately for Hirdy, the timing of all this is terrible as AD, recently embarrassed by failing to take a stand on Melbourne's tanking, wont risk being seen again as failing to uphold the integrity of the game. AD's posturing is suggestive that Hirdy would, at the very least, face a severe sanction if one of the above allegations is proven to be true. If more than one of the above allegations is proven, then it is very hard to see Hirdy holding onto his job.

I have always admired Hirdy as a player, as a coach and as a human being and there is nothing I would like more than to see him completely absolved of all allegations and some serious egg thrown onto the faces of the parasitic elements of the media who are baying for blood. However, the evidence reported so far is more supportive (albeit not proof) than dismissive of the allegations.

I am barracking for Hird, but I also fear for him.

A fairly balanced post.

Essendon may yet face sanctions for breaches of the WADA code, but certainly this has not yet happened. Essendon fans need to remember, the absence of evidence (info not yet available to the public) is not evidence itself. Though this does work both ways.

I agree there has been a media witch hunt, I also agree it appears that Hird has failed in his duty of care to the players and Essendon supporters have bought the Dank as scapegoat setup hook, line and sinker.

As for the highlighted, not sure about this. I don't know Hird, yes he was a great player but I cannot make any judgements about his character.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Posted on the Hawthorn board on Monday.

Just a heads up.... Trent Croad will be back in the news in the coming days... He's in some serious trouble.

Also - you can take my word for it that James Hird will be sacked before the year is out. He will be charged with bringing the game into disrepute.

The first part has come true. I wonder if Vlad is publicly guiding the story towards the second bolded part.

 

[TerryWallet]

Posted on the Hawthorn board on Monday.


The first part has come true. I wonder if Vlad is publicly guiding the story towards the second bolded part.

Charter and his associates are just starting to be woven into Baker and McKenzies articles. They were all being surveilled by the ACC.

We may soon find out the extent of James' "running into" Charter again just before he hired his alleged distributor Dr Dank.

 

[blackcat]

james hird calls for vlad to consider lapband or AOD

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Charter and his associates are just starting to be woven into Baker and McKenzies articles. They were all being surveilled by the ACC.

We may soon find out the extent of James' "running into" Charter again just before he hired his alleged distributor Dr Dank.

Yes, reading that article this morning the bigger picture is slowly being revealed, and Vlad will absolutely detest all this linking back to Essendon and the AFL.

 

[fishardansin]

After being pressed a number of times on whether Hird should stand down Andy D gives up on deflecting and says that Hird should CONSIDER IT. What is all the fuss about? Hird should consider a lot of things!!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

After being pressed a number of times on whether Hird should stand down Andy D gives up on deflecting and says that Hird should CONSIDER IT. What is all the fuss about? Hird should consider a lot of things!!

Wouldn't you think that vlad would or should've said something to the effect of "there's no reason for James to stand down", if he thought that the investigation was going to turn up nothing and that Hird was still squeaky clean from all the mud being slung?

Do you think that it's a fair possibility that maybe Andrew knows where this might be headed, and he's now trying to guide it towards an outcome?

I'm certainly interested in what Vlad has to say, as I think the more serious the allegations are presented, the more involved Andrew will become.

 

[Defacto]

After being pressed a number of times on whether Hird should stand down Andy D gives up on deflecting and says that Hird should CONSIDER IT. What is all the fuss about? Hird should consider a lot of things!!

thanks double chin.

to be fair andy d did said hirdy should consider it, probably for his health. but surely even you can see the tone in andy d was not good and suggested more is going to come to light that is not going to assist essendons case

 

[Chameleon75]

After being pressed a number of times on whether Hird should stand down Andy D gives up on deflecting and says that Hird should CONSIDER IT. What is all the fuss about? Hird should consider a lot of things!!

I thought the significance wasn't the wording but the posturing. Big A is hedging his bets, distance himself slightly without abandoning, so he can go either way depending on how it all plays out.

 

[sr36]

Why on earth would they stand Hird down, just further encouraging this shitstorm, before they even know if Hird has actually done anything immoral or illegal?

Illegal is obviously still in doubt, but how can you doubt that he did anything immoral. He is clearly complicit, at the least, with the persuasion of a whole lot of young employers to become a part of an experimental medical program with no medical backing that was aimed at increasing productivity. If any company in the corporate world got caught by the media doing this, those involved would be out on their ear within half an hour.

 

[liam_13]

Illegal is obviously still in doubt, but how can you doubt that he did anything immoral. He is clearly complicit, at the least, with the persuasion of a whole lot of young employers to become a part of an experimental medical program with no medical backing that was aimed at increasing productivity. If any company in the corporate world got caught by the media doing this, those involved would be out on their ear within half an hour.

Just wait for the investigation to be completed. Then make calls one way or another.

Remember that post was talking from the viewpoint of Essendon board and officials, they are fully entitled to give Hird the benefit of the doubt until they are sure they have a firm grasp on what happened.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Hird should only stand down if:

1) his continuing to coach is a disadvantage to the EFC on field

2) his current media focus provides an unnecessary distraction for the team

3) there are concerns about him potentially continuing non-compliant practices and exposing EFC to further issues

4) he's guilty of charges which will ultimately see the EFC stand him down, EFC knows it, he knows it, and its best to start transition ASAP

IMO none of these have been triggered

1) players are still playing for him, and the results show it

2) the media focus is on the club, players, and hird - removing one from that equation doesn't remove the pressure from the rest

3) even EFC haters (I believe) accept the borderline practices ceased mid year last year

4) he is very firm he is innocent, so no chance of this

 

[fishardansin]

Hird should only stand down if:

1) his continuing to coach is a disadvantage to the EFC on field

2) his current media focus provides an unnecessary distraction for the team

3) there are concerns about him potentially continuing non-compliant practices and exposing EFC to further issues

4) he's guilty of charges which will ultimately see the EFC stand him down, EFC knows it, he knows it, and its best to start transition ASAP

IMO none of these have been triggered

1) players are still playing for him, and the results show it

2) the media focus is on the club, players, and hird - removing one from that equation doesn't remove the pressure from the rest

3) even EFC haters (I believe) accept the borderline practices ceased mid year last year

4) he is very firm he is innocent, so no chance of this

/end thread.

 

[Heres Waite]

I am wondering why people (here and the media) are calling for Hird to be sacked/stand down because of Dank's allegations that he injected him with drugs. Even if this is true and these drugs are banned by WADA, the way I understand it, the WADA policy doesn't apply to coaches and officials. So why does it matter if Hird was injected. The only way that I can see this being an issue is if he did it in front of players or was doing it in the coaches box during a game, but even then WADA have no say in that, it would be a matter for Essendon to deal with in house.

The only way I see Hird being sacked or him standing down is if it is proven that Essendon players took banned substances during his time at the club. I see that it has been widely reported that Essendon players had taken AOD9406, Thymosin, and some kind of pigs brain extract. Are theses substances even banned? If they are banned, and Essendon clearly tried to use them to get a physical advantage over the competition, then throw the book at Essendon, sack Hirdy and Evans and suspend their players, but at this stage I seems as though not even ASADA know if these substances are banned or not.

 

[josephine666]

I agree it is odd. I don't give a damn what drugs coaches or support staff take. I also don't give a damn what drugs players take as long as they are not of the performance enhancing variety. The use of (non performance enhancing) drugs whether they be illicit or not is one between the individual and their employer.

 

[CharacterFirst]

I don't know.

Hird said he took full responsibility for what happened in the Footy Dep. We know enough, just from what the club have sparingly said so far, that serious management mistakes have been made. Is Hird now implying these are not his responsibility?

I think people are well within their rights to call for Hird to step down while the investigations take place. This has been very common practice in the past, and still is in many fields such as business, politics, law enforcement, and other organisations. It is not an admission of guilt, just a taking on oneself out of the picture to allow any conflicts to be removed, and allow for a truly independent investigation - even if it is only for the sake on being seen to be impartial/above board.

I think it actually goes hand in glove with the EFC approach not to comment while the investigation is ongoing. I am not sure one without the other is very convincing at all. And of course many have pointed out the untruth of EFC claiming they can't speak while the investigation is ongoing. They really mean they won't speak, unless it suits them.

I suppose the only real issue is that the whole club are under investigation. Perhaps they should all be stepping down while the investigations are going on? That would be messy indeed, eh?

 

[josephine666]

My view was purely on Hird stepping down in relation to allegations he was taking drugs himself. There is certainly a strong case In terms of him being responsible while untoward events took place at the club. I imagine this is why Demetriou appears to be pro fast tracking a conclusion when only a few weeks ago he was adamant the investigation could go on all year. I suspect the information he is privvy to is damning, but this slow death by media insinuation and selective leaks is just cruel to everyone, bombers fans and the general football community alike. I'm hoping there is some common sense and the bandaid gets ripped off quickly.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I suppose the only real issue is that the whole club are under investigation. Perhaps they should all be stepping down while the investigations are going on? That would be messy indeed, eh?

yeah that's not a completely and utterly stupid statement at all...

 

[CharacterFirst]

yeah that's not a completely and utterly stupid statement at all...

You are the true king of red herrings Lance.

But anyway, you missed the humour there.

Despite your insistence that I never use "the smileys", it looks like you really need me to, b/c you just can't understand anything unless I spell it out for you.

What do you think of Mark Wright down at Dandenong? And, how many did you back at Randwick? The Cav continues on her merry way, and IDD looked mighty impressive, eh?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

"humour"? That's humorous

 

[CharacterFirst]

"humour"? That's humorous

Not if you are too dull to pick up the wry absurdity of the paragraph! (here is a winking smiley to show I am saying this with a slight smile on my face, and a knowing "wink" to the gentle sparring we are having here.)

 

[Cylon7]

Andy D calling for Hird to step down?

Wow! Pot calling the kettle black.
If we are going to examine our conscience, perhaps it is time for him to do so too.

 

[Cylon7]

It doesn't pay to be associated with Canberra, does, it Andy?