Angus Graham

[MightyTiger]

Claw did you watch the Coburg game? They got spanked by 70+ points.

I cant see many changes happening, not many pushing for selection, and it would be stupid to make wholesale changes after a win.

 

[theflea]

i heard that browne played pretty good though. for me bring him in for graham. cant hurt or be worse.

 

[Goldust]

Claw did you watch the Coburg game? They got spanked by 70+ points.

I cant see many changes happening, not many pushing for selection, and it would be stupid to make wholesale changes after a win.

Exactly!

You don't step a racehoprse up in company to take on Black Caviar if he finishes seven lengths from the winnet at a midweek meeting at Colac!

 

[CallMeAl]

so play browne then and post not as if these two have done nothing the last few weeks.
im over players who are just plain poor win lose or draw.

ive had this debate many times. it is indeed preferable to have players going well at coburg and then being promoted. but its also been 5 games and we have players who have been poor what do you do keep on rewarding mediocrity and accepting sub standard games or promote a kid if only for experience sake.

i know what i prefer to see done atm and its not play blokes who have been around for ages who regularly produce ordinary performances.

let me ask if we had lost against nm and make no mistake we went within a whisker of losing it because of very ordinary performances from players who have been out of touch most of the yr would you be so averse to making changes.
its simple play poorly risk getting dropped.
its not as if we are winning games or playing higfh quality footy.did you actually watch the north game. there were several unacceptable performances and it near cost us a win. the standard was terrible.
surely we are aiming for better win lose or draw.

Where did i say or even hint that i was adverse to changes.

All i did was point out the call for a change to be Derrickx was not that bright. You simply dont play a debutant who has just played his first game of football in 7 weeks ( yeah, i said 5, i have since learned it was 7)

...or was that rant directed at someone else?


Just on Browne.

I saw him in the practice game for coburg a few weeks back. From what i saw Id say he offers more than gus around the ground, but much less in terms of tap work.

 

[_RT_]

so play browne then and post not as if these two have done nothing the last few weeks.
im over players who are just plain poor win lose or draw.

ive had this debate many times. it is indeed preferable to have players going well at coburg and then being promoted. but its also been 5 games and we have players who have been poor what do you do keep on rewarding mediocrity and accepting sub standard games or promote a kid if only for experience sake.

i know what i prefer to see done atm and its not play blokes who have been around for ages who regularly produce ordinary performances.

let me ask if we had lost against nm and make no mistake we went within a whisker of losing it because of very ordinary performances from players who have been out of touch most of the yr would you be so averse to making changes.
its simple play poorly risk getting dropped.
its not as if we are winning games or playing higfh quality footy.did you actually watch the north game. there were several unacceptable performances and it near cost us a win. the standard was terrible.
surely we are aiming for better win lose or draw.

Its interesting how you say we shouldn't accept mediocre or sub standard performances, so I'm just wondering how long do you give Browne or Derickx in the ruck before we chop them, especially if their performances aren't much better than what Graham puts up?

For mine I would love to see how Graham went for a month where he had some decent support and to me that bloke has to be Post. Gives us that extra big body in the forward line that can have an impact on contests, can also give Gus a chop out in the ruck and add some marking power around the ground.

Ideally the set up would be Post at CHF leading up and Miller deep with Riewoldt to give Jack a chop out against double teaming. When Gus needs a break he goes to the bench, Post to the ruck Miller pushes up to CHF, Jack about 25m out behind him so when Miller leads Jack has space in front and in the square have Dusty Cotchin or Grigg resting.

 

[santa claws]

Claw did you watch the Coburg game? They got spanked by 70+ points.

I cant see many changes happening, not many pushing for selection, and it would be stupid to make wholesale changes after a win.

nope i didnt and im not debating what they are lkely to do at the selection table just stating what i would like to see.

and ya know what come thursday night graham may well be in my team purely out of neccesity.

atm i would be looking to promote browne post and tuck and hopefully batchelor.not sure why he pulled out.

 

[_RT_]

nope i didnt and im not debating what they are lkely to do at the selection table just stating what i would like to see.

and ya know what come thursday night graham may well be in my team purely out of neccesity.

atm i would be looking to promote browne post and tuck and hopefully batchelor.not sure why he pulled out.

Apparently a foot injury for Batchelor

 

[MightyTiger]

nope i didnt and im not debating what they are lkely to do at the selection table just stating what i would like to see.

and ya know what come thursday night graham may well be in my team purely out of neccesity.

atm i would be looking to promote browne post and tuck and hopefully batchelor.not sure why he pulled out.

So now we just promote guys just for the sake of it?

Our problem against North wasn't our big men, sure Rance and McGuane were shaky to start with, but you would expect that after missing 2 and 3 weeks of football, after half time they really held Hansen/Petrie and Rance especially provided good run out of defence.

Your issue is with the Ruck, you say Graham hasn't been any good because he's been getting beaten by second stringer Rucks, well who has Browne beaten in the VFL, the 3rd or 4th best Ruck at a club?

 

[Crumden]

I think his centre bounce work has been ok and same with ball ups around the ground. But he is neither dropping back to fill a hole in the backline or drifting forwad to kick a goal, or providing a marking target for the kick outs. A good ruckman has to do at least one of these things to impact a game. Maybe his workload is not letting him get to contests as much as he should? If so, I can see the sense in what Hardwick is doing by giving him so much time onthe ball. But its his boundary work that worries me - it is terrible. Again on the weekend the kangaroo ruckman was able to double palm the ball directly to a rover on a few occasions. He just seems to get out-positioned too often at boundary throw ins.

 

[Haggard H]

Ideally the set up would be Post at CHF leading up and Miller deep with Riewoldt to give Jack a chop out against double teaming. When Gus needs a break he goes to the bench, Post to the ruck Miller pushes up to CHF, Jack about 25m out behind him so when Miller leads Jack has space in front and in the square have Dusty Cotchin or Grigg resting.

If you're going to do that - and it sounds great to me - I'd reckon you're better off with Vickery than Miller, just for long term development.

 

[Goldust]

If you're going to do that - and it sounds great to me - I'd reckon you're better off with Vickery than Miller, just for long term development.

From where I sit, our forward line has functioned a whole lot better since the inclusion of Miller, who is definitely paying his way!
I know the whole developing argument, but Miller is simply producing more than Vickery right now.
Also, as difficult as it is for some to grasp, Miller is 27 ….. not 30 or 33. 27 ain’t old. Who is to say he can’t be holding his own until he’s 30 or 31?
In a team that has so many young players we can lump into the ‘developing’ bracket, a few steadier heads are welcome.
All perception too … we tend to look at Newman differently – and even Tuck – as we do Miller and they’re similar age!

 

[_RT_]

If you're going to do that - and it sounds great to me - I'd reckon you're better off with Vickery than Miller, just for long term development.

With the way Vickery is having next to no impact on games we're better off without him. Not only is he struggling to get possessions, he also struggles to get into dangerous enough spots or impose himself on the contest either up forward or in the ruck. As a result its like we're playing one short and I reckon him being subbed off on Sunday was Hardwick pretty much saying that was the case.

Given Derickx hasn't played for 7 weeks I'd be turning to Post who performed reasonably well when used as a second ruck at the end of last year and going by the reports from Coburg, he is not only taking marks but also having an impact when he doesn't take the grab. I reckon he would be perfect to sit either deep forward or at CHF and then push into the ruck for the next 5 weeks until the bye.

By that time Derickx would have had enough time to get his fitness level up and if Post isn't doing the job we could turn to him for 6 weeks until our second bye. That would give us a good chance to see what he can do at this level and also give Vickery a good 10-12 weeks to work on his game so that if we want to we can give him another crack.

If we do that then by seasons end we'll have a very good idea as to which 2 players are best suited to play as our rucking duo. For mine it has to be one of Graham or Browne partnered by one of Post or Vickery or Derickx as I just don't think we can afford to play 2 traditional ruckmen, which is what I see Browne and Graham being.

 

[kainokaino]

Why does no one rate Graham?

2nd in the league in Hitouts.
20th in the league in Tackles.
1st in the league for Tackles from ruckmen.
80% Disposal Efficiency (1st out of ruckmen.)

Has still only played 38 games and just turned 24. As most people know it takes a lot longer for ruckmen to develop. People need to give him a break, he cops far to much abuse on here, he is easily our number 1 ruck option at the moment and lets let him get 50+ games into he's legs before people start saying he is not apart of our future. I highly doubt you will find many ruckmen that had big effects on games before playing 50 games so give the kid a chance.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Re: Why does no one rate Graham?

I'd like to know Hitouts to Advantage comparison. I don't think it'd be very high.

He isn't getting enough of the ball for my liking and his clanger count is quite high.

He's getting better though.

 

[_RT_]

Re: Why does no one rate Graham?

I'd like to know Hitouts to Advantage comparison. I don't think it'd be very high.

He isn't getting enough of the ball for my liking and his clanger count is quite high.

He's getting better though.

Are you aware that clangers cover free kicks against? Therefore 13 of Gus' 16 clangers are from free kicks given away.

 

[santa claws]

With the way Vickery is having next to no impact on games we're better off without him. Not only is he struggling to get possessions, he also struggles to get into dangerous enough spots or impose himself on the contest either up forward or in the ruck. As a result its like we're playing one short and I reckon him being subbed off on Sunday was Hardwick pretty much saying that was the case.

Given Derickx hasn't played for 7 weeks I'd be turning to Post who performed reasonably well when used as a second ruck at the end of last year and going by the reports from Coburg, he is not only taking marks but also having an impact when he doesn't take the grab. I reckon he would be perfect to sit either deep forward or at CHF and then push into the ruck for the next 5 weeks until the bye.

By that time Derickx would have had enough time to get his fitness level up and if Post isn't doing the job we could turn to him for 6 weeks until our second bye. That would give us a good chance to see what he can do at this level and also give Vickery a good 10-12 weeks to work on his game so that if we want to we can give him another crack.

If we do that then by seasons end we'll have a very good idea as to which 2 players are best suited to play as our rucking duo. For mine it has to be one of Graham or Browne partnered by one of Post or Vickery or Derickx as I just don't think we can afford to play 2 traditional ruckmen, which is what I see Browne and Graham being.

on vickery.

for me its about what is best for his development. continually playing him when hes not getting any ball is not development.

have said it about all of griffiths astbury and now vickery they hit the wall and it was time for them to go back to coburg work on what they have learnt and find some ball and confidence.
i was highly critical of vickery earlier but ive seen enough to say he is improving but he now needs to go to coburg put in practice what hes learnt work on a few things and just get a heap of ball and grow in confidence.
to me this would be far better for his development right at this moment. 3 5 weeks at coburg and bring back a confident ball hungry player. same goes for astbury though i have to admit i have no time what so ever for certain players and i would rush him back.

 

[jko'neal]

I have no problems with Grahams ruck work, it's his around the ground work that shits me to tears, just far to soft at times. But in saying that, he has only played just under 2 seasons of AFL football and I remember watching a lot of top notch ruckman now early in their career and they were horrendus.

 

[rammbo]

From where I sit, our forward line has functioned a whole lot better since the inclusion of Miller, who is definitely paying his way!
I know the whole developing argument, but Miller is simply producing more than Vickery right now.
Also, as difficult as it is for some to grasp, Miller is 27 ….. not 30 or 33. 27 ain’t old. Who is to say he can’t be holding his own until he’s 30 or 31?
In a team that has so many young players we can lump into the ‘developing’ bracket, a few steadier heads are welcome.
All perception too … we tend to look at Newman differently – and even Tuck – as we do Miller and they’re similar age!

for a start newman is a class above miller i reckon with tucks genes he will still b playing at the same standard wen hes 35 to 40 like his oldman but ican see value in miller short term to do some grunt work while others develop

 

[TIAGRA]

Miller - Good
Gus- fine
stfu

 

[WATIGE]

Doubt that Post will come into calculations for changes around the ruck combo this week- the report on the Coburg game on the RFC site says he is playing injured - obviously not bad enough to stop him playing but i doubt that they will risk him up the extra level if it is the case.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: Why does no one rate Graham?

I'd like to know Hitouts to Advantage comparison. I don't think it'd be very high.

He had 11 hitouts to advantage rfct, Goldstein had 10, 19 effective hitouts, Goldstein had 20.

He's averaging 6.6 hitouts to advantage a game and steadily improving that average, to put that in a league-wide perspective, Zac Smith is averaging 6.5, Warnock 6.2, Cox and Sandilands generally average in the 10-11 range.

He isn't getting enough of the ball for my liking and his clanger count is quite high.

He's only a possession or two per game behind the bulk of the no.1 rucks, has the best disposal efficiency out of all the rucks, and his skill error and critical error averages are way below almost all other rucks.

He's getting better though.

Long way to go, but he's coming along decently.

Healey and Walls need a good flogging for the ridiculous game-long harassment they gave him, I've seen the game twice since and they clearly took Vickery's lack of competitiveness in the 1Q, dumped it on Graham's shoulders (he'd made one half bad contest at the time they started blaming our entire 1Q on him) and proceeded to lampoon him all game at every slight opportunity.

Throw in Lloyd, the vapid, horribly biased mouth-breather and it's enough to make you watch with no sound.

 

[nick1408]

Re: Why does no one rate Graham?

I think Graham played a fantastic game against Fremantle. He may have been beaten in the hitouts against Sandilands but I think he made him at least earn them. He looked a lot more hard at it and willing to get around the ground and into good ball receiving positions. I reckon Hardwick must have given him a spray during the week.

 

[CoggaRules]

Hats off to big Gus. Whatever anyone says about Sandilands and how domninant he was, in the end Gus provided an avenue for us around the ground, kicked a super goal when we needed one, and did enough to produce enough no contests in the ruck. Well done big fella.

 

[tugga]

Whuile Sanidlands was one of the best on ground yesterday, I actually think Gus wore him down in the end. He just refused to give up.

 

[Tiger_Stripes]

Worked supremely hard. I've been super critical of him of late but far out, had his best hand for the club. Started winning taps late also. Biggest difference I think wad less time in the ruck, Vickery shared more. As such, at the end of the game Graham was still working his ass off. He was actually running hard, hitting contests and shepherding, all criticisms I've had of him. Still does the odd stupid thing and needs to hold onto marks but I'll tell you what, when big Gus finally grabs one in the forward 50 they just seem to slot through the middle