Apple Isle Showdown: Tas Govt threatens to end Hawks, North deals if no plan for 19th side

[Bicco]

Sounds good but most people can't just walk to the ferry. They have to drive.

Same problem, where to park.

The Cricket people said the same thing when promoting the growth of Bellerive Oval.

They never addressed the obvious problem of getting to & from the ferry terminals.

Also how many Ferries operate? Not many!!

Reason is as above. So they aren't a sensible option for most people, especially families & oldies.

Do you think people in Melbourne drive to the tram? Most city train stops don't have car parks, Londoners don't drive to the tube, they walk.
People under the age of 60 should be able to walk 3 blocks. If you can't then you drive or get a taxi/lift.
Not being able to find a park is the most Tasmanian thing ever. Parents would rather sit in their car for 15 minutes, parked illegally, than drive 5 minutes away and walk.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do you think people in Melbourne drive to the tram? Most city train stops don't have car parks, Londoners don't drive to the tube, they walk.
People under the age of 60 should be able to walk 3 blocks. If you can't then you drive or get a taxi/lift.
Not being able to find a park is the most Tasmanian thing ever. Parents would rather sit in their car for 15 minutes, parked illegally, than drive 5 minutes away and walk.

Outer suburbs have massive car parks to cater for people who drive to the train station in Melbourne

 

[Bicco]

Outer suburbs have massive car parks to cater for people who drive to the train station in Melbourne

I know. That's why l referred to 'city' train stops having no parking and not 'all'.

 

[boncer34]

C'mon mate, don't be like that. One thing I've noticed after moving here is the Tasmanian aversion to walking. For Hurricanes games I've always parked in Bellerive village and never had a problem getting a park.

When I lived there I'd park in the Clarence St Carpark. After the game, walk back, turn right and head to the South Arm highway.

I never had any issues. Maybe I'm lucky.

 

[madmug]

Do you think people in Melbourne drive to the tram? Most city train stops don't have car parks, Londoners don't drive to the tube, they walk.
People under the age of 60 should be able to walk 3 blocks. If you can't then you drive or get a taxi/lift.
Not being able to find a park is the most Tasmanian thing ever. Parents would rather sit in their car for 15 minutes, parked illegally, than drive 5 minutes away and walk.

Yes. Thats what a lot of people are like here. Public transport here isnt quite as good as the London underground.

I'm saying thats the psychology of it.

Although walking 3 blocks in flat Melbourne is different to walking up the Queens domain to the TCA.

Its about convenience. People here live in a small city. They won't even use busses. They often aren't convenient enough.

I'm sure that all affects crowds at events at Bellerive.

Anecdotally. I know people who just won't go to Boot Park for just those reasons.

 

[Bicco]

Yes. Thats what a lot of people are like here. Public transport here isnt quite as good as the London underground.

I'm saying thats the psychology of it.

Although walking 3 blocks in flat Melbourne is different to walking up the Queens domain to the TCA.

Its about convenience. People here live in a small city. They won't even use busses. They often aren't convenient enough.

I'm sure that all affects crowds at events at Bellerive.

Anecdotally. I know people who just won't go to Boot Park for just those reasons.

Absolutely. It's a long term thing in that people have to accept the pro's and con's of public transport. Currently everyone expects to drive to the front gate and park and then go straight home without delay. Kids are picked up directly from school, I hardly (if ever) see a pack of kids riding bikes like we used to. One of the pleasures of going to the footy in Melbourne is the walk from Flinders St to the 'G. The famed (although fruitless) 2013 GF walk with all of the Freo fans was awesome. Once Hobartians understand the rhythm of public transport they will be fine with using it, but it will take a bit of adjusting.

 

[HPKS]

Absolutely. It's a long term thing in that people have to accept the pro's and con's of public transport. Currently everyone expects to drive to the front gate and park and then go straight home without delay. Kids are picked up directly from school, I hardly (if ever) see a pack of kids riding bikes like we used to. One of the pleasures of going to the footy in Melbourne is the walk from Flinders St to the 'G. The famed (although fruitless) 2013 GF walk with all of the Freo fans was awesome. Once Hobartians understand the rhythm of public transport they will be fine with using it, but it will take a bit of adjusting.

There’s not a lot of pros for public transport in tassie to the footy. A lot of stops have little or no shelter, it’s a game played during winter. It takes forever to get to where your going, a 15 minute drive can turn into an trek . It’s always cheaper to drive unless your a concession card holder. I’ll also add any family or older people will avoid the Glenorchy bus mall like the plague after 7 for obvious reasons which means families or the older generation you rule out if your trying to stear them into using PT to Bellerive from the northern suburbs. It’s not and never has been anything like public transport in other states. It basically hasn’t changed since I was a teenager growing up down there. If I ever lived back down there I’d avoid it like a lot of people do.

I stick up for my home state a lot but I’ll never even consider sticking up for the public transport system down there. People that use it either work in the city or are unemployed, that’s it. It’s terrible. No1’s ever going to get into the Rhythm of pt in tassie.

But when I lived in Melbourne I never bothered to own a car, didn’t need to as PT was light years ahead of Hobart. Perth caught the train regularly. Parked at the train station then the train Dropped me right outside Optus. Walked all of 5 minutes to get in. No1 likes buses in any city. They’re used by people who don’t own a car or can’t drive.

 

[madmug]

There’s not a lot of pros for public transport in tassie to the footy. A lot of stops have little or no shelter, it’s a game played during winter. It takes forever to get to where your going, a 15 minute drive can turn into an trek . It’s always cheaper to drive unless your a concession card holder. I’ll also add any family or older people will avoid the Glenorchy bus mall like the plague after 7 for obvious reasons which means families or the older generation you rule out if your trying to stear them into using PT to Bellerive from the northern suburbs. It’s not and never has been anything like public transport in other states. It basically hasn’t changed since I was a teenager growing up down there. If I ever lived back down there I’d avoid it like a lot of people do.

I stick up for my home state a lot but I’ll never even consider sticking up for the public transport system down there. People that use it either work in the city or are unemployed, that’s it. It’s terrible. No1’s ever going to get into the Rhythm of pt in tassie.

But when I lived in Melbourne I never bothered to own a car, didn’t need to as PT was light years ahead of Hobart. Perth caught the train regularly. Parked at the train station then the train Dropped me right outside Optus. Walked all of 5 minutes to get in. No1 likes buses in any city. They’re used by people who don’t own a car or can’t drive.

I think its more the people who live in the growth areas of Kingston, Brighton & Sorrell.

Older areas like the Northern Suburbs are fairly well served by busses.

The basketball at the refurbished DEC/Wilkinsons point is right on the main highway & has lots of close by parking.

Bellerive has nothing like that sort of accessibility.

 

[Bicco]

I think its more the people who live in the growth areas of Kingston, Brighton & Sorrell.

Older areas like the Northern Suburbs are fairly well served by busses.

The basketball at the refurbished DEC/Wilkinsons point is right on the main highway & has lots of close by parking.

Bellerive has nothing like that sort of accessibility.

The DEC would be a good place for a ferry stop. Heaps of parking.

 

[Bicco]

There’s not a lot of pros for public transport in tassie to the footy. A lot of stops have little or no shelter, it’s a game played during winter. It takes forever to get to where your going, a 15 minute drive can turn into an trek . It’s always cheaper to drive unless your a concession card holder. I’ll also add any family or older people will avoid the Glenorchy bus mall like the plague after 7 for obvious reasons which means families or the older generation you rule out if your trying to stear them into using PT to Bellerive from the northern suburbs. It’s not and never has been anything like public transport in other states. It basically hasn’t changed since I was a teenager growing up down there. If I ever lived back down there I’d avoid it like a lot of people do.

I stick up for my home state a lot but I’ll never even consider sticking up for the public transport system down there. People that use it either work in the city or are unemployed, that’s it. It’s terrible. No1’s ever going to get into the Rhythm of pt in tassie.

But when I lived in Melbourne I never bothered to own a car, didn’t need to as PT was light years ahead of Hobart. Perth caught the train regularly. Parked at the train station then the train Dropped me right outside Optus. Walked all of 5 minutes to get in. No1 likes buses in any city. They’re used by people who don’t own a car or can’t drive.

I think people can learn. Or be forced to. When parking and congestion in the CBD starts to get really bad and expensive like it is in Melbourne/Sydney, people will look for cheaper alternatives. Not only has PT not changed since you were a kid, neither have the roads. There's still only 4 lanes of road heading north on the Western shore. 2x Brooker, 1x Main Rd and 1x in the Glenorchy rat run through Lenah Valley. I moved to Melbourne in the late 90's and left finally in 2015. The difference in traffic was enormous. Things need to be enacted now with the idea that in 20 years things (traffic congestion) will be worse, it's inevitable. A serious look needs to be taken at a ring road or tunnel to avoid the city from the south. But that's another matter.
IN terms of Bellerive, as I said earlier, I've never had an issue getting in/out. But a Northern Light Rail running to a ferry to the ground would be pretty much world class PT. Something we can be proud of and something that will future proof the city for a long time. Ultimately, the unless the capacity of the ground changes (it won't too much as far as I can tell) the situation we have now won't change either.
Whatever people think of it, it's hardly a reason to not have a team, I think we can all agree on that.

 

[madmug]

The DEC would be a good place for a ferry stop. Heaps of parking.

Their is one there.

Not used currently, but built over a decade or so ago. Modern looking solid concrete & plate glass design, well protected from wind & rain. Its basically at the opposite end of Montrose bay to Moorilla/Mona.

As Wilkinson's point is developed with Hotel, eateries, dedicated basketball/indoor centre & the DEC itself, one can see the ferry stop being used.

 

[HPKS]

I think its more the people who live in the growth areas of Kingston, Brighton & Sorrell.

Older areas like the Northern Suburbs are fairly well served by busses.

The basketball at the refurbished DEC/Wilkinsons point is right on the main highway & has lots of close by parking.

Bellerive has nothing like that sort of accessibility.

I think people can learn. Or be forced to. When parking and congestion in the CBD starts to get really bad and expensive like it is in Melbourne/Sydney, people will look for cheaper alternatives. Not only has PT not changed since you were a kid, neither have the roads. There's still only 4 lanes of road heading north on the Western shore. 2x Brooker, 1x Main Rd and 1x in the Glenorchy rat run through Lenah Valley. I moved to Melbourne in the late 90's and left finally in 2015. The difference in traffic was enormous. Things need to be enacted now with the idea that in 20 years things (traffic congestion) will be worse, it's inevitable. A serious look needs to be taken at a ring road or tunnel to avoid the city from the south. But that's another matter.
IN terms of Bellerive, as I said earlier, I've never had an issue getting in/out. But a Northern Light Rail running to a ferry to the ground would be pretty much world class PT. Something we can be proud of and something that will future proof the city for a long time. Ultimately, the unless the capacity of the ground changes (it won't too much as far as I can tell) the situation we have now won't change either.
Whatever people think of it, it's hardly a reason to not have a team, I think we can all agree on that.

Oh yeh I fully agree on a team. I left 15 years ago and I go back every year except last year due to COVID. Buses will never be the answer to pt to a footy game & it’s why no other major city in Australia has them as the only public transport solution for the footy or life in general. For the reasons I’ve outlined previously.

 

[madmug]

Oh yeh I fully agree on a team. I left 15 years ago and I go back every year except last year due to COVID. Buses will never be the answer to pt to a footy game & it’s why no other major city in Australia has them as the only public transport solution for the footy or life in general. For the reasons I’ve outlined previously.

Yes i think your right. Hobart's western shore is shaped like a tube of Toothpaste, squeezed in the middle.

The City centre is between the port & the mountain, thus expansion is to the Northern 'burbs, At Kingston down the Southern Outlet & over the Eastern shore down to Sorrell

Its a bugger to cover for the Public bus system. Everything goes through the city to get out to those areas.

Thats why the traffic gets so bad for such a small place. Buses too get stuck in traffic, So people drive.

Traffic jam is relevant. But for a small place, it gets bad for people not use to having to wait.

 

[Bicco]

Their is one there.

Not used currently, but built over a decade or so ago. Modern looking solid concrete & plate glass design, well protected from wind & rain. Its basically at the opposite end of Montrose bay to Moorilla/Mona.

As Wilkinson's point is developed with Hotel, eateries, dedicated basketball/indoor centre & the DEC itself, one can see the ferry stop being used.

Is that what that building is!

 

[madmug]

Is that what that building is!

You can walk along the water front past the DEC getting refurbished to it.

Its an interesting looking construction.

Why they built it well
before anything else was on the go for the area was always a wonder to us.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There’s not a lot of pros for public transport in tassie to the footy. A lot of stops have little or no shelter, it’s a game played during winter. It takes forever to get to where your going, a 15 minute drive can turn into an trek . It’s always cheaper to drive unless your a concession card holder. I’ll also add any family or older people will avoid the Glenorchy bus mall like the plague after 7 for obvious reasons which means families or the older generation you rule out if your trying to stear them into using PT to Bellerive from the northern suburbs. It’s not and never has been anything like public transport in other states. It basically hasn’t changed since I was a teenager growing up down there. If I ever lived back down there I’d avoid it like a lot of people do.

It sounds like if there's one thing Tasmania can do in the short term to increase their chances of getting a team, building a proper light rail line in Hobart is pretty high up the list. Investing funds in a stadium somewhere along that line is probably up there too.

 

[nick1408]

It sounds like if there's one thing Tasmania can do in the short term to increase their chances of getting a team, building a proper light rail line in Hobart is pretty high up the list. Investing funds in a stadium somewhere along that line is probably up there too.

They did have plans to get the Sydney Monorail when it was dismantled but the plans fell over - probably a good thing (although Hobart people will be able to give a better opinion than me, a visitor only).

Public transport would depend on where it went to. I don't think the locals would like a lane (or two) removed from the Tasman Bridge for a tram to get people from the city to Bellerive Oval. In fact, I don't think there would be a lot of room on the current roads to add trams. It'd be a huge cost for possibly little return. Busses or trackless trams may be the best option.

My opinion means little here though - the locals will know far better than me.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

They did have plans to get the Sydney Monorail when it was dismantled but the plans fell over - probably a good thing (although Hobart people will be able to give a better opinion than me, a visitor only).

Public transport would depend on where it went to. I don't think the locals would like a lane (or two) removed from the Tasman Bridge for a tram to get people from the city to Bellerive Oval. In fact, I don't think there would be a lot of room on the current roads to add trams. It'd be a huge cost for possibly little return. Busses or trackless trams may be the best option.

My opinion means little here though - the locals will know far better than me.

The proposed light rail project isn't supposed to run on roads, but on the disused railway between the Port of Hobart and Brighton. They've built a cycleway in that path, but it's probably easier to move that rather than eliminating a lane of vehicle traffic, in terms of local pushback.

 

[madmug]

They did have plans to get the Sydney Monorail when it was dismantled but the plans fell over - probably a good thing (although Hobart people will be able to give a better opinion than me, a visitor only).

Public transport would depend on where it went to. I don't think the locals would like a lane (or two) removed from the Tasman Bridge for a tram to get people from the city to Bellerive Oval. In fact, I don't think there would be a lot of room on the current roads to add trams. It'd be a huge cost for possibly little return. Busses or trackless trams may be the best option.

My opinion means little here though - the locals will know far better than me.

Not sure I remember much said about the monorail.

Interestingly I see the Chinese have a developed such a tram/bus system as you mention. It follows electric lines under the road. It could be built into existing road/rail corridor near anywhere. It could be used on out existing rail corridor & then off onto roads or any space they could put a bus on.

Far too left field for Governments in Australia.

 

[madmug]

It sounds like if there's one thing Tasmania can do in the short term to increase their chances of getting a team, building a proper light rail line in Hobart is pretty high up the list. Investing funds in a stadium somewhere along that line is probably up there too.

That means KGV. Its right next to the unused rail corridor.

I really don't think such a rail system would be cost efficient.

However, if KGV was upgraded to say 25K, plus BBL games, it would help make it worthwhile.

Plus If the rail went from the city out past KGV, Mona & across to Brighton, then would be of some value.

IMO.

 

[nick1408]

The proposed light rail project isn't supposed to run on roads, but on the disused railway between the Port of Hobart and Brighton. They've built a cycleway in that path, but it's probably easier to move that rather than eliminating a lane of vehicle traffic, in terms of local pushback.

Possibly, but I reckon losing any public facilities will get pushback.

Not sure I remember much said about the monorail.

Interestingly I see the Chinese have a developed such a tram/bus system as you mention. It follows electric lines under the road. It could be built into existing road/rail corridor near anywhere. It could be used on out existing rail corridor & then off onto roads or any space they could put a bus on.

Far too left field for Governments in Australia.

Bid to bring monorail to Hobart

Hobart's Deputy Lord Mayor wants the Sydney monorail to come to Hobart. Alderman Ron Christie wants his council to make an offer on the $20 million track which the New South Wales Government is dismantling.

www.abc.net.au

Here is one link for the monorail idea. There is quite a few but the idea fell over so not worth too much searching really.

You are spot on about radical ideas too. It's high risk/high reward and the type of idea that gets governments voted out if it cannot be completed in one term.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I really don't think such a rail system would be cost efficient.

I've addressed this already. I refer you back to two of my previous posts.

A business case was released in 2013 by the consulting firm ACIL Allen, which put the Benefit-Cost ratio of a Hobart-Glenorchy line at $1.12 generated per dollar spent. So actually it has passed a decent analysis.

No it doesn't. The line has the highest benefit-cost ratio when it terminates at Glenorchy. The further north it goes from there, the less financially viable it is, and it becomes a net drain on the taxpayer once it goes past Claremont, according to the 2011 business case by ACIL Allen (later superseded by the 2013 business case which only studied Hobart-Glenorchy).

Anyway...

Possibly, but I reckon losing any public facilities will get pushback.

Of course it will. But you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. The cyclists will get over it if you give them a viable alternative with most of the same benefits.

 

[madmug]

I've addressed this already. I refer you back to two of my previous posts.


Anyway...


Of course it will. But you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. The cyclists will get over it if you give them a viable alternative with most of the same benefits.

Yes you did. That report is interesting but it is 10 years old. Things have changed ie, MONA opened in 2011. Its effect couldn't have been foreseen, especially the amount of people who visit the place. So many in fact that MONA have 2 ferries & buses for the crowds. The Growth of Brighton & projected growth over the next decade also affect the economics of any line.

I'm saying for the line to be of real value it would need to go from Brighton to the city. With a KGV development & MONA adding to its usage.

Overall I guess I'm thinking why the rail stopped in the first place. Employment changed from places like Cadbury, Silk & Textiles & EZ, they mechanised & computerised so less people employed. City CBD lost jobs as modern communication saw jobs done in Melb/Syd company HQ rather than branch offices. Many went by rail back in the day. Hobart grew, but not where the rail was/is. More/cheaper cars became available.

With the above, rail might be useful for the northern corridor, but the cities major growth areas are getting strangled by old road systems & the fact that most everything has to go through Macquarie st/Davey st, a major choke point.

People like Transport economist Bob Cotgrove have mentioned all this stuff over the years. Cars are convenient in a city of Hobarts size & shape. Also the major Growth areas to the East & South need to be serviced.

Hobart needs an overall plan. Not the piecemeal ideas we seem to get all the time.

I like rail, but it has to make sense. But why old rail systems anyway? Maybe more modern transport, like broadening roads for the trackless tram systems mentioned above? Driverless car systems?

 

[The Devils Advocate]

C'mon mate, don't be like that. One thing I've noticed after moving here is the Tasmanian aversion to walking. For Hurricanes games I've always parked in Bellerive village and never had a problem getting a park.

Ayy? When I moved to the Mainland we used to chuckle at how small Victorians calves were, as none of them ever walk up a hill.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Although walking 3 blocks in flat Melbourne is different to walking up the Queens domain to the TCA.

Haha, I live in Glebe and walk from Sandy Bay after work. It's certainly different than working from QVM to Parliament or an equivalent distance.