Are 'premiership windows' a thing of the past?

[Magic Mike]

The term 'premiership window' is often used to describe teams who are at the stage of challenging for the flag and the length of time they have before the slide down the ladder, such is the cycle of football.

Sam Mitchell is one who believes that premiership windows are a thing of the past, citing Sydney as an example.

With free agency making it far easier for teams to plug holes in their lists, he may well be right.

Sydney have missed the finals a grand total of once since 2002, and don't look like missing the finals again anytime soon.

Do you agree that premiership windows are a thing of the past?

HAWTHORN star Sam Mitchell believes premiership windows are a thing of the past.

With an ageing core group of players, the Hawks may be forgiven for thinking they'd missed a vital chance to cash in another premiership to go with their 2008 triumph - and make the most out of a golden group of talent.

But Mitchell isn't subscribing to that theory.

"I think the whole concept of premiership windows has been thrown out the window so to speak by the way Sydney has gone about their list development," Mitchell said.

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-02-11/we-need-to-improve-mitchell.workstation

 

[LordLucifer]

The term was another that someone just dreamt up (may have been Malthouse ??) and became a rather invogue fad that seemingly grew to have its own ecehelon within footy vernacular due to its constant over-use.

Like all fads, they have a use-by date and this one reached it's zenith some years ago.

 

[Pessimistic]

Its only relevant if you are not in one

 

[Suma Magic]

No. They're just bigger and can be kept open with more ease. Some teams have jammed an angled bit of wood in theirs because they enjoy the breeze.

Even if you dislike the phrase, you can't argue that the window is open for all teams in 2013.

 

[Papa G]

Teams can surprise or hang around a bit longer than most expect, but I think the premiership window by and large is a pretty good description. Hawthorn, Collingwood, West Coast, Sydney and maybe the Clowns currently have a group of players that most think can win the premiership - they are in the the window. Gold Coast, GWS, Port, Melbourne don't have the players/experience/talent at the moment - they by definition arde not in the window.

Teams like the Saints, Bulldogs and Geelong have passed the window, the majority their good players have aged or retired, and the replacements are either not as good or still too young, the window seems to have passed.

Other teams are moving towards the window through talent and experience. Malthouse despite being an egotistical and self serving maniac does think deeply about the game, and I think his description of this is pretty apt.

 

[parsons nose]

Yes you cannot confidently assert because team A has fallen out of contention in a given year they consigned to the scrap heap for a number of years. Clubs can turn around their fortunes pretty quickly these days.

 

[Magic Mike]

No. They're just bigger and can be kept open with more ease. Some teams have jammed an angled bit of wood in theirs because they enjoy the breeze.

Even if you dislike the phrase, you can't argue that the window is open for all teams in 2013.

Sydney had a total of 4 players that played in both their 2005 and 2012 premierships.

Their lowest finish in that period was 12th in 2009, but you could argue that was their rebuilding year.

Another good example is Collingwood who have played finals for 7 straight years, and don't look like missing the finals again anytime soon.

Current Collingwood players who were on the list at the end of 2006:

Travis Cloke
Alan Didak
Ben Johnson
Nick Maxwell
Scott Pendlebury
Heath Shaw
Dane Swan
Dale Thomas
Harry O'Brien (rookie)
Alan Toovey (rookie)

That equates to an 80% turnover of the senior list without missing the finals.

So much for every team needing to 'bottom out' between drinks.

 

[baja]

If you believe you are not in a 'premiership window' so to speak you may as well not turn up. Its a losers mentality. They said the Swans 'premiership window' was closed so we just smashed it.

 

[Suma Magic]

Magic Mike - I agree with you.

 

[Magic Mike]

Teams like the Saints, Bulldogs and Geelong have passed the window, the majority their good players have aged or retired, and the replacements are either not as good or still too young, the window seems to have passed.

Teams like Sydney and Collingwood have shown that they are capable of being perennial finalists while they turn over their playing list.

St Kilda and Geelong will both be interesting to watch after being so good for so long. It will be interesting to see whether they follow Western Bulldogs off the cliff or whether they can regenerate their playing lists while hovering around the mark like Sydney.

I've seen many St Kilda supporters comparing their 2012 season to Sydney's 2009, and are confident their team can do what Sydney have managed to do.

As for Geelong, they outlined their intention to play finals every year during their 5 year plan (2012-2016) so it seems that they intend to follow the Sydney route as well.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think saying premiership windows are a thing of the past and citing Sydney as an example only really works if you subscribe to the theory that a team needs to bottom out to be entitled to another premiership window. From 2007-2011 Sydney were mainly in that 'competitive, but not really' phase, where they made the finals in four of the five years, but rarely, if ever looked capable of being a top 4 side (best H&A record over that period was 13-9).

Their mid 00s window was closed by 08 at the very latest and they only looked like being a potential premiership contender again in 2011 (just looked to be missing a key forward - see Daniel Bradshaw - to be able to compete). The almost complete turnover of their best 22 from 05-12 confirms that.

Geelong is going to be the major test of this premiership window theory. They've obviously reloaded for another tilt at a flag in 2013, with the recruiting of Rivers and McIntosh (and to a lesser extent, Caddy). Whether you think they can do it or not is another question, but that's obviously what their plan is. They also have potential senior players waiting in the wings to replace Corey, Podsiadly, Enright and Chapman; along with Johnson, Bartel and Kelly in a few years time. It's a massive (impossible?) ask to expect the next generation to pick up where these champs left off, without missing a beat, but I think Geelong has the tools in place to remain (at the very least) competitive, in a Sydney 2007-08 kind of way, through to the mid 10s.

 

[Air_Chester]

I don't agree with or particularly like the term "premiership window" much in the same way I dislike the notion that someone other than the favourite winning the premiership is considered "stealing it" or making it a "Bradbury premiership".

Personally I think it's bullshit. The team that wins the last game in September is the Premier, whether they were "supposed to" win or not.

 

[Quinz]

Premiership windows are caused by clubs. When they don't think they're a decent chance at a flag they load up with youth and via the draft. There's no need for it necessarily, a well run club can cycle youth into the team and phase out older players without hitting rock bottom.

 

[Mr Magic]

Teams like Sydney and Collingwood have shown that they are capable of being perennial finalists while they turn over their playing list.

St Kilda and Geelong will both be interesting to watch after being so good for so long. It will be interesting to see whether they follow Western Bulldogs off the cliff or whether they can regenerate their playing lists while hovering around the mark like Sydney.

I've seen many St Kilda supporters comparing their 2012 season to Sydney's 2009, and are confident their team can do what Sydney have managed to do.

As for Geelong, they outlined their intention to play finals every year during their 5 year plan (2012-2016) so it seems that they intend to follow the Sydney route as well.

Not sure how you cab san say Collingwood and Sydney escaped the window argument, Collingwood got Pendlebury and Thomas out of their window and the Swans got Rohan outside their window to.

Remember Swans are an anomoly boosted by AFL HQ but their team is completely different to the team that beat WC in the GF!!

 

[dymot]

Not sure how you cab san say Collingwood and Sydney escaped the window argument, Collingwood got Pendlebury and Thomas out of their window and the Swans got Rohan outside their window to.

Remember Swans are an anomoly boosted by AFL HQ but their team is completely different to the team that beat WC in the GF!!

Really? Swans paid nowhere near the cap and didn't use the additional payment allowance but don't let facts get in the way.

 

[Pessimistic]

Premiership windows are caused by clubs. When they don't think they're a decent chance at a flag they load up with youth and via the draft. There's no need for it necessarily, a well run club can cycle youth into the team and phase out older players without hitting rock bottom.

Lists are not big enough to do that unless every recruit is a success

 

[Magic Mike]

Not sure how you cab san say Collingwood and Sydney escaped the window argument, Collingwood got Pendlebury and Thomas out of their window and the Swans got Rohan outside their window to.

Remember Swans are an anomoly boosted by AFL HQ but their team is completely different to the team that beat WC in the GF!!

Sydney regenerated their side through clever trading, good drafting and good player development while they turned over their playing list.

2009 was the one year they missed the finals, and Rohan at pick 6 was the result of their 12th place finish that year. They never 'bottomed out' so to speak.

You can point to the CoL allowance all you like, but the fact is that no one at the club was getting paid big bucks, and it was reported that they didn't even pay 100% of the salary cap in 2012.

As for Collingwood, scroll up and read post #7.

 

[legend166]

Not sure how you cab san say Collingwood and Sydney escaped the window argument, Collingwood got Pendlebury and Thomas out of their window and the Swans got Rohan outside their window to.

Remember Swans are an anomoly boosted by AFL HQ but their team is completely different to the team that beat WC in the GF!!

Uh, you do know what happened to Gary Rohan last year right? How can you use that as an example when he played practically no part in the premiership?

 

[Balance]

I prefer to call it a door. Teams should always try to aim for the best each season, I don't like it when too many young kids are played for the majority of the season, this has been discussed many times. Time and time again though, we see that teams who ALWAYS aim for the best (not just in AFL) get rewarded more than teams who don't. It's time to wake up for some clubs.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Still a valid concept. There is no way for example that the Western Bulldogs can win the 2013 flag. But if your list is well balanced and you unearth quality young players regularly enough, you can theoretically contend every year.

List management is an evolving science, and you can expect the well-run clubs to better mitigate the effect of their senior players retiring in clusters.

 

[PoidaCat]

Yep. Gold Coast will be shit for a while.

 

[Sttew]

Teams can surprise or hang around a bit longer than most expect, but I think the premiership window by and large is a pretty good description. Hawthorn, Collingwood, West Coast, Sydney and maybe the Clowns currently have a group of players that most think can win the premiership - they are in the the window. Gold Coast, GWS, Port, Melbourne don't have the players/experience/talent at the moment - they by definition arde not in the window.

Teams like the Saints, Bulldogs and Geelong have passed the window, the majority their good players have aged or retired, and the replacements are either not as good or still too young, the window seems to have passed.

Other teams are moving towards the window through talent and experience. Malthouse despite being an egotistical and self serving maniac does think deeply about the game, and I think his description of this is pretty apt.

Disagree, obviously....

Everyone said Cats were past in 2011. And who would / could have predicted the Swans' rise in 2012? I agree with Sam Mitchell

 

[Martyn_30_]

Of course premiership windows exist Sydney did have a total rebuild after the 06 grand final they just didn't bottom out but no season through 07-11 were they a contender or in a window. Right now there's 6 teams that could say they're in a premiership window, sides such as Geelong and St Kilda can kid themselves that they're still a chance but that times passed.

 

[Testekill]

St Kilda and Geelong will both be interesting to watch after being so good for so long. It will be interesting to see whether they follow Western Bulldogs off the cliff or whether they can regenerate their playing lists while hovering around the mark like Sydney.

Well, the Bulldogs were stuck with a coach that didn't play the youth until too late and a recruiter that missed more often then he hit and suffered under Peter Rohde. Eade was a great coach and I'm glad we had him but Scott Clayton was incredibly overrated thanks to a great couple of years with Brisbane.


Still, Port Adelaide knows just how we feel about Rohde.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Increased professionalism and Free Agency will make cycles and that shorter. Sure, clubs will be out of contention for a season or two like ours, but I won't be surprised if in the near future, teams will rise and fall quicker, making extended "windows" and the like rarer.