Are these Cats pussies, or tomcats?

[Asgardian]

Continuing on a theme, I have done reviews of 3 team lists so far, and frankly none seemed overly impressive.
Lets see how the Cats stand up man by man, remember, at this stage I am not aware of any delistings or retirements other than Hockings.
I try my best to be fair and impartial, see what you guys reckon

Ezra Bray :- He is an unknown for me
Ronnie Burns :- This guy is easy to upset, but his good is great
Paul Chapman :- Build wise looks like Diesel, play wise not close
David Clarke :- Pack skirter, nice skills when clear
Joel Corey :- Plenty of ability to work with here
Paul Corrigan :- Back up player only, will he stay on list?
Corey Enright :- Good type, should consolidate a place
Daniel Foster :- Groomed for key position, may take time
Ben Graham :- Always looks like he should be better than he is
Brent Grgic :- Hack, why did you bother?
Tom Harley :- Honest, gives a contest
Adam Houlihan :- Had one too many drinks last night didn't he
Joshua Hunt :- Got some work to do, but he should get there
Glenn Kilpatrick :- Semi hack now
Steven King :- His 2001 disappointed, he is better than that
Kent Kingsley :- Has anyone coached him how to be a forward
Cameron Ling :- Heard a lot, but now time to deliver
Daniel Lowther :- Hack
Tim McGrath :- Semi hack now
Joel McKay :- Should have done more by now
David Mensch :- Hack
Darren Milburn :- Over-rated, plays like a hack
Cameron Mooney :- Tough guy, go get the ball son
Jason Mooney :- Will he survive the cut?
Danny O'Brien :- Time to step up, if he can?
James Rahilly :- Back up player at best
Peter Riccardi :- Class player, injuries may be taking their toll
Brenton Sanderson :- Plays the sweeper to perfection
Matthew Scarlett :- Lose the tough guy stuff to get better
Brad Sholl :- Looked out of sorts in 2001
Hamish Simpson :- Hack
Jason Snell :- Hope he mentally recovers from the break
David Spriggs :- Midfield hopes are in his hands
Peter Street :- Damn this guy is big, good back up
Mitchell White :- Not the force he once was
David Wojcinski :- Servicable, still has work to do
Marc Woolnough :- Damn knees, has talent

Where the hell are the star players that you normally associate with Geelong teams?
Sorry guys, but this looks like a bleak winter coming up in 2002 for the Cats

 

[JUBJUB]

Well thats the biggest load of crap I've read this year

 

[tragicforces]

Originally posted by Asgardian


Ezra Bray :- He is an unknown for me. - Three shoulder reconstructions. Future uncertain. Deserves one last chance.
Ronnie Burns :- This guy is easy to upset, but his good is great. - Refused anger management counselling. Needs to play every game for the Cats to take a tilt at the finals.
Paul Chapman :- Build wise looks like Diesel, play wise not close. - Smart around the goals. Don't go bagging this bloke, he'll make you eat your words.
David Clarke :- Pack skirter, nice skills when clear - Burst acceleration often gets him out of trouble. Not to good in close.
Joel Corey :- Plenty of ability to work with here - Give him time. First round pick in '99. Will deliver.
Paul Corrigan :- Back up player only, will he stay on list? - May go, especially if Cats nab experienced midfielder in pre-season draft.
Corey Enright :- Good type, should consolidate a place. Future superstar.
Daniel Foster :- Groomed for key position, may take time. Agreed, hence McGrath's extra year down back.
Ben Graham :- Always looks like he should be better than he is. Always played out of position. Should be in the NFL!
Brent Grgic :- Hack, why did you bother? - Fresh start, could come good.
Tom Harley :- Honest, gives a contest - Yep
Adam Houlihan :- Had one too many drinks last night didn't he - How do you know ?
Joshua Hunt :- Got some work to do, but he should get there - Solid boy.
Glenn Kilpatrick :- Semi hack now. Woud beat the pants off you.
Steven King :- His 2001 disappointed, he is better than that. - Needs to forego his own safety for the ball
Kent Kingsley :- Has anyone coached him how to be a forward -I think at Geelong they reverse-engineer....
Cameron Ling :- Heard a lot, but now time to deliver - Has delivered and will continue to deliver
Daniel Lowther :- Hack. Mate, you should get a thesaurus
Tim McGrath :- Semi hack now. Tell that to his face...
Joel McKay :- Should have done more by now. Been injured
David Mensch :- Hack. biting my tongue!
Darren Milburn :- Over-rated, plays like a hack. Your opinion only of course!!
Cameron Mooney :- Tough guy, go get the ball son -Not the man!
Jason Mooney :- Will he survive the cut? No
Danny O'Brien :- Time to step up, if he can? - He can't
James Rahilly :- Back up player at best- That's what you think
Peter Riccardi :- Class player, injuries may be taking their toll - You may be right
Brenton Sanderson :- Plays the sweeper to perfection - Take note Collingwood
Matthew Scarlett :- Lose the tough guy stuff to get better - Huh?
Brad Sholl :- Looked out of sorts in 2001 - Could do an Anthony Rock?
Hamish Simpson :- Hack - Had his chances
Jason Snell :- Hope he mentally recovers from the break - Will be back stronger
David Spriggs :- Midfield hopes are in his hands - Hope not!!!
Peter Street :- Damn this guy is big, good back up - Needs more game time
Mitchell White :- Not the force he once was - Does that mean he's a 'hack'?
David Wojcinski :- Servicable, still has work to do - Needs to step up.
Marc Woolnough :- Damn knees, has talent. - Ray of hope

Where the hell are the star players that you normally associate with Geelong teams?
Sorry guys, but this looks like a bleak winter coming up in 2002 for the Cats

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by JUBJUB
Well thats the biggest load of crap I've read this year

Well come on ace, tell me what evaluations you disagree with, be specific like I have, so some discussion can take place.

Don't take the easy cop out of saying "that's all crap", at least I put some time and effort into my post

 

[Catman]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Don't take the easy cop out of saying "that's all crap", at least I put some time and effort into my post

How? You basically called everyone on our list a hack.

 

[JUBJUB]

Originally posted by Catman


How? You basically called everyone on our list a hack.

Exactly,he's full of crap.The only ones he hasn't bagged are Ex-Port players.

 

[Cats2001!]

I'm actually glad that we are thought to be not that good by people, as we always perform best when our backs are against the walls and everyone is expecting us to be crap. We always perform the opposite to what people think!

Eg:

1995 - Expected to miss the finals after poor GF finish in '94 - we made the GF again
1996 - Expected to be right up there again - were not
1997 - Gazza gone, expecting a bleak year, but were practicly the best team of that year, led to us missing out on going all the way by the stiffist of circumstances.
1998 - After the unfairness of 1997, in 1998 Geelong was reguarded as the best Victorian bet to take the flag. Nowhere near it!
1999 - We were premiership material until round 6, when everyone had us down to take the pennant!
2000 - Expected to be a bleak year again - we made the finals!
2001 - Expected to make the finals again, diddnt

and that leads to 2002

-Our team is labled to be full of hacks with a bleak winter coming along - lets wait and see what happens!

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by JUBJUB


Exactly,he's full of crap.The only ones he hasn't bagged are Ex-Port players.

Okay, what I asked before was for you to tell me which players you disagree with me, have a look at these descriptions, does this really sound like I have bagged your whole list?

Ronnie Burns :- This guy is easy to upset, but his good is great
David Clarke :- Pack skirter, nice skills when clear
Joel Corey :- Plenty of ability to work with here
Corey Enright :- Good type, should consolidate a place
Daniel Foster :- Groomed for key position, may take time
Ben Graham :- Always looks like he should be better than he is
Tom Harley :- Honest, gives a contest
Joshua Hunt :- Got some work to do, but he should get there
Steven King :- His 2001 disappointed, he is better than that
Kent Kingsley :- Has anyone coached him how to be a forward
Cameron Ling :- Heard a lot, but now time to deliver
Cameron Mooney :- Tough guy, go get the ball son
James Rahilly :- Back up player at best
Peter Riccardi :- Class player, injuries may be taking their toll
Brenton Sanderson :- Plays the sweeper to perfection
Matthew Scarlett :- Lose the tough guy stuff to get better
Brad Sholl :- Looked out of sorts in 2001
Jason Snell :- Hope he mentally recovers from the break
David Spriggs :- Midfield hopes are in his hands
Peter Street :- Damn this guy is big, good back up
Mitchell White :- Not the force he once was
David Wojcinski :- Servicable, still has work to do
Marc Woolnough :- Damn knees, has talent


Now that is 23 players who I thought were footballers, some I have made comment like Brad Sholl who didn't play up to form in 2001, but I didn't bake him, others like Cameron Mooney I made comments on what I believe will improve the player, it doesn't mean I consider him to be a hack. Finally with guys like Mitchell White, I just don't reckon he has his best footy in front of him any more, again, that doesn't mean I reckon he is a hack.

As for some of the others I did label as hacks, how many of them will actually stay on your list for 2002?

Come on, tell me player by player where you disagree with my commments, I'm not trying to flame, just trying to get some feedback.

So come on ace, lets talk about Geelong's players

 

[nolsey77]

Choco's Chokers

When you see Port win a final you can do what you want, why dont you go on the essendon board and have a crak at them.

Asgardian- Big Footys Robert Walls

 

[Fall Out Boy]

That list was pretty fair i think, but then again i have both eyes open.

Only two i would disagree with are Matthew Scarlett (he's not overly aggresive, fantastic player) and CamLing (definitely showed what he can do last season, tore Cousins apart in Perth.)

Cheers

 

[jod23]

Geez well after seeing Geelongs list im pretty confident that the Eagles can avoid bottom...apart from Graham and King, there list is very weak.

Getting better everyday for the Eagles..

 

[Red Rover]

Originally posted by jod23
Geez well after seeing Geelongs list im pretty confident that the Eagles can avoid bottom...apart from Graham and King, there list is very weak.

Getting better everyday for the Eagles..

The Eagles are a woeful outfit!!! At least Geelong were competitive for the most part in 2001, even though it ended as a bad year. How many games did West Coast lose by more than 10 goals in 2001?? Too many to want to remember, including two thrashings against Geelong. They copped enough spankings to last a decade.

All West Coast have is on their list Ben Cousins, who as phatandfreaky rightly pointed out, got touched up by a second year player in Cameron Ling when the clubs met at Subiaco this year.

 

[Red Rover]

Thanks for your thoughts, Asgardian, unlike JUBJUB who can get temperamental when you criticise his team, I don't think it was the biggest load of crap I've read this year. All in all, your evaluation of Geelong's list was pretty accurate.

I do disagree with a few such as Cameron Ling who did deliver in 2001. As for Darren Milburn, well you're the first person I've ever heard call him over-rated, I thought quite the opposite. But there's always going to be a few points of debate, but for the majority I think you weren't far off.

But to say we're in for another bad year is drawing the long bow. You can't just look at the current state of club's list to judge likely future performance. All that tells you is the reputations of its players. In 2000 when we surprised everyone and had a reasonably good season, it wasn't the reputations of our players that won games, it was the improvement in our developing players that got under the guard of opposition sides.

Going into 2002, we have a large group of players going into their 3rd or 4th seasons, it will be the ability of these players to take the next step that could push us back into the finals.

Here are the players I think most likely to take the next step:

Cameron Ling - despite injuries in 2001, proved he is a mature and complete player. Can run in the middle or play up forward.

Corey Enright - stepped up in 2001 and will look to establish himself as a senior player. Has all the tools of a quality midfielder.

David Spriggs - regular senior player who showed signs of being a future superstar in his first two seasons but struggled toward season's end. Will get fitter and stronger.

David Clarke - established senior player, good ball-winner with the ability to kick goals, improving physical side of his game.

Cameron Mooney - showed he run out a game in the ruck as well as up forward, has terrific physical presence, which he needs to learn to control.

Joel Corey - another quality midfielder who needs to improve his decision making at times, good stage in his career to step up.

David Wocjinksi - pacy defender/wingman who showed promise at senior level in 2000, has been developing in the VFL.

Daniel Foster - only limited opportunities at senior level, but looked the part when given a chance. Despite injuries early this year, has been an excellent performer at VFL level.

Asgardian, you were looking to the future in your prediction of the club's fortunes, but in evaluating the players you looked at the present. You have to look at where the improvement could come from and judge on that basis, but it's all just speculation anyway. As Cats2001! said, Geelong have a habit of doing the unexpected, this isn't the first time we've been told to expect a rough season and it won't be the last.

 

[Red Rover]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Well come on ace, tell me what evaluations you disagree with, be specific like I have, so some discussion can take place.

Don't take the easy cop out of saying "that's all crap", at least I put some time and effort into my post

HERE HERE!! (take note JUBJUB and Catman)

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Cats2001!
I'm actually glad that we are thought to be not that good by people, as we always perform best when our backs are against the walls and everyone is expecting us to be crap. We always perform the opposite to what people think!

And unfortunately, it's just as often it's easy to predict when Geelong will fall over . . . seemingly right at the time they need to stand up and take the next step.

 

[JUBJUB]

Originally posted by jod23
Geez well after seeing Geelongs list im pretty confident that the Eagles can avoid bottom...apart from Graham and King, there list is very weak.

Getting better everyday for the Eagles..

This coming from a WET TOAST supporter

Your club has just appointed a coach who would rather of coached Fremantle

John Worsfold will be the new Tony Shaw of coaching .

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Red Rover


The Eagles are a woeful outfit!!! At least Geelong were competitive for the most part in 2001, even though it ended as a bad year. How many games did West Coast lose by more than 10 goals in 2001?? Too many to want to remember, including two thrashings against Geelong. They copped enough spankings to last a decade.

All West Coast have is on their list Ben Cousins, who as phatandfreaky rightly pointed out, got touched up by a second year player in Cameron Ling when the clubs met at Subiaco this year.

Spot on. WCE are nowhere near being a "decent" outfit. On the other hand, Geelong were competitive for at least 75% of the season. Had they been able to win close games against the Bulldogs and Melbourne (the second game), as well as one or two others, they would have challenged for the finals.

Then again, IMO, I would also factor in the notion that Geelong, to some extent, won games against teams which were generally "better" over the course of the entire season. This leaves you wondering, did Geelong overachieve on these particular occasions? Or was it underacheiving every other week?

For this reason it's hard to say exactly where Geelong are at. Are they rebuilding? Or are they two or three decent players off of being a finals contender??

Either way, the safest bet for the club will be to have modest expectations, and look to the positives, and build upon them. If the results are better than expected, then it will be a pleasant surprise.

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Red Rover


HERE HERE!! (take note JUBJUB and Catman)

Red Rover, go and wash your mouth out with hot soapy water.

I'm appalled at your lack of respect for visionaries such as JUBJUB and Catman (who were the masterminds behind the old Geelong emblem, I'll have you know).

You know who you remind me of, Red Rover? Those guys down at KP when we went down there for round 21 this season. The particular group I am talking about, were those two groups of Geelong supporters, who were having a go at each other.

As it started, someone called Hocking a "mindless egocentric ****tah" (although, this wasn't the same guy who said B.Graham was holding Geelong Football Club to financial ransom). The response from a group in front, was one of anger. They turned around, and started laying it on this codger, calling him a "fairweather" supporter, to which he said "Geez, I was only joking. I'm from Geelong, so I don't really know what's going on". to which the other group replied "Well we're from Geelong as well! Want a beer?"

It seems as though anything at Geelong can be fixed by beer. Two groups of supporters, who at one moment, were to rip each other's giblets apart, to two groups of supporters who have forgotten all trespasses and are getting along as if they had been bossom buddies from years back. All due to the ofference of beer.

It's a good system.

 

[JUBJUB]

Originally posted by Red Rover
Thanks for your thoughts, Asgardian, unlike JUBJUB who can get temperamental when you criticise his team, I don't think it was the biggest load of crap I've read this year. All in all, your evaluation of Geelong's list was pretty accurate.
.

Red Rover
How many Geelong games do you go to each year ?
I'm just wondering if you see the team most weeks.

 

[Red Rover]

Originally posted by JUBJUB
Red Rover
How many Geelong games do you go to each year ?
I'm just wondering if you see the team most weeks.

I've been a club member for the last three years.

I went to 18 games in 2000, I missed one game in Victoria, but went to Sydney for a game and saw the final against Hawthorn.

This year I went to 13 out of the 16 games in Victoria, one of the ones I missed I watched live on TV from Shell Stadium, one I had to go away but saw the replay on TV, the other was the R22 Carlton game which I listened to on radio and watched the replay on TV.

I watch the interstate games on TV if Channel Seven bother to cover them.

I also went to the two Ansett Cup games in Victoria this year.

I see enough, JUBJUB.

I was at the Kangaroos game standing in the outer watching the boys play underwater. Anyone at that game deserves to be called a true supporter.

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Red Rover

I see enough, JUBJUB.

That's what you say most weeks! Just jaggin'!

 

[Red Rover]

You're in good form today, Olmy.

 

[TigerTank]

Asgardian and Cats fans.

As much as I would sincerely love to see the Cats do well, I am in almost total agreement with Asgardian's evaluation. A very honest and frank assessment of the list.

The Cats are very fragile on the field, and have to have a lot of things going for them to do well. They lack players who can take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag them over the line.

So much is dependent on King - in my opinion the best "credentialed" young ruckman in the competition. The Geelong midfield needs him to give them first use because they aren't big or strong enough to consistently win contested balls in the middle.

I disagree with Asgardian's assessment of Matthew Scarlett who I see as being as good as Darren Gaspar, only earlier in development (meaning he is now where Gaspar was 3 years ago and in 3 years time will be where Gaspar is now).

Forget about Ben Graham at Full back - wasted there and not tight enough. Graham absolutely must become a centre half forward (or centre half back, but the former is preferable).

I rate Ling, Spriggs and Sanderson, and Milburn can play (when he is not being a dill), but geez they're short on star quality.

One thing they do have is a very clever and tactical coach (Thompson is at least as good as Wallace in my opinion). The Cats struggle against good/average teams who are on their game, but can often upset better teams and make them play on the Cats' terms. A great coach really.

They win games by surprising the opposition with clever tactics or knocking them off their game, but if they don't break the opposition early, the odds are against them.

As I said, I'd love to see Geelong do well - they are "good for football", it's good for country Victoria, and they are a terrific club. But sadly, they simply don't have enough good players to play well every week.

 

[TigerTank]

And for the last frigging time - it's Hear! Hear!, not "here! here!"

Here! here! is what you say to a dog.

 

[Red Rover]

Originally posted by Olmy
You know who you remind me of, Red Rover? Those guys down at KP when we went down there for round 21 this season. The particular group I am talking about, were those two groups of Geelong supporters, who were having a go at each other.

Yes, I remember, quality entertainment, we'll write a book about that one-day.

But I just thought it was a poor reaction on the part of JUBJUB and Catman, to treat a genuine critique of our playing list with such contempt. They dismissed it right away - not very constructive - no wonder this board is usually a graveyard.

JUBJUB has a habit of making airy-fairy, huff-and-puff statements without bothering to back them up. If you strongly disagree with someone, why not point out where and why you disagree to form the basis of an argument? At least this stimulates discussion that may be constructive.

Any moron can just say, "that's a load of crap," not that JUBJUB is a moron, but has the ability to make himself look like one at times.