Analysis Are we over-rating our list?

[Finnishpie]

Sier has not come from nowhere - some just paid no attention to his development in the two's - which is why bigfooty is such a laugh.

I dunno. I paid a fair bit of attention and his form was seriously patchy. He wasn't consistently winning a lot of the ball until this year.

 

[Albert Parker]

I dunno. I paid a fair bit of attention and his form was seriously patchy. He wasn't consistently winning a lot of the ball until this year.

And hence why he was on the cusp of not getting a contract renewal. He was no certainty to emerge the way he did this year, even considering the injury interruptions in his first 2 seasons.

 

[jonbe54]

I dunno. I paid a fair bit of attention and his form was seriously patchy. He wasn't consistently winning a lot of the ball until this year.

Can't expect any kid to be consistent - the fact was he was showing enough to grab the attention of the match committee - which is enough is it not?

 

[Quicky]

I've given this a bit of thought and I don't think we are overrating our list. Our list is in extraordinary shape with the only glaring list deficiency a top line key forward. We should finish top 6 with luck even with our draw. Line by line we stack up.

Backline
B: Langdon - Dunn - Maynard
HB: Howe - Moore - Crisp
Int: Varcoe

Our defence can be among the best in the league if Dunn and Moore are playing. Dunn is a very underated key defender and among the best one on one players in the league. Moore offers Rance like potential. We know our smalls and third talls really stack up and are well balanced. Langdon and Howe are fantastic interceptors, they defend well and they offer rebound. Likewise Crisp and Maynard. Crisp is fantastic one on one and is a high metres gained player. Maynard has tightened up defensively and adds mongrel.

Midfield
Mid: Sidebottom - Pendlebury - Phillips
Fol: Grundy - Beams - Treloar
Int: Adams, Sier

That has to be among the best on ball brigades in the league. Grundy is a monster ruck and fantastic on baller. Beams strenthens our clearance winning. Pendles remains silk. Treloar explosiveness. Sidebottom and Phillips some of the best gut runners in the business. The depth is there with Adams and Sier and plenty of other options. I'd utilise Adams defensively but we could easily use Greenwood or Mayne. Very well balanced group and depth to go all day.

Forwards
HF: Elliott - Mihocek - Stephenson
FF: De Goey - Cox - Hoskin-Elliott
Int: Thomas

We are very dynamic up forward. We have 5 guys capable of kicking over 30 (Stephenson, Hoskin Elliott, Elliott, Thomas, Mihocek) and another over 50 (De Goey). Cox is the only guy that will struggle there but he balances that by being almost the best contested mark in the league, providing structure and being our second ruck. We have the luxury of rotating any of our talls from full forward or simply throwing De Goey, Stephenson or Hoskin-Elliott, all with raw pace, to the goal square and exploiting favourable match-ups. Our trio of talls in Cox, Mihocek and De Goey are not the most fearful on paper do perfectly compliment each other and our balance. It is not much of a weakness.

Our challenge
I think our biggest challenge is getting our best on the field more regularly. We need Dunn, Moore and to a lesser extent Elliott to be playing fit for most of the year. I am interested to see if we will make any moves to strengthen our medical, fitness and development departments. We have removed Davoren but been very quiet otherwise.

 

[JB1975]

Sier has not come from nowhere - some just paid no attention to his development in the two's - which is why bigfooty is such a laugh.

In fairness to Big Footy, which can indeed be a wonderland of delightfully half-baked opinion, Sier himself suggested that he was on the verge of being flung off the list last year. There were irregular and rather fleeting 'signs' of a decent player before this year, but nothing to suggest that he'd make such a statement at both VFL and AFL this season.

 

[MagicGnome97]

Love myself some positivity! Let's win the flag next year Collingwood!

 

[Jelly Bean]

I've given this a bit of thought and I don't think we are overrating our list. Our list is in extraordinary shape with the only glaring list deficiency a top line key forward. We should finish top 6 with luck even with our draw. Line by line we stack up.

Backline
B: Langdon - Dunn - Maynard
HB: Howe - Moore - Crisp
Int: Varcoe

Our defence can be among the best in the league if Dunn and Moore are playing. Dunn is a very underated key defender and among the best one on one players in the league. Moore offers Rance like potential. We know our smalls and third talls really stack up and are well balanced. Langdon and Howe are fantastic interceptors, they defend well and they offer rebound. Likewise Crisp and Maynard. Crisp is fantastic one on one and is a high metres gained player. Maynard has tightened up defensively and adds mongrel.

Midfield
Mid: Sidebottom - Pendlebury - Phillips
Fol: Grundy - Beams - Treloar
Int: Adams, Sier

That has to be among the best on ball brigades in the league. Grundy is a monster ruck and fantastic on baller. Beams strenthens our clearance winning. Pendles remains silk. Treloar explosiveness. Sidebottom and Phillips some of the best gut runners in the business. The depth is there with Adams and Sier and plenty of other options. I'd utilise Adams defensively but we could easily use Greenwood or Mayne. Very well balanced group and depth to go all day.

Forwards
HF: Elliott - Mihocek - Stephenson
FF: De Goey - Cox - Hoskin-Elliott
Int: Thomas

We are very dynamic up forward. We have 5 guys capable of kicking over 30 (Stephenson, Hoskin Elliott, Elliott, Thomas, Mihocek) and another over 50 (De Goey). Cox is the only guy that will struggle there but he balances that by being almost the best contested mark in the league, providing structure and being our second ruck. We have the luxury of rotating any of our talls from full forward or simply throwing De Goey, Stephenson or Hoskin-Elliott, all with raw pace, to the goal square and exploiting favourable match-ups. Our trio of talls in Cox, Mihocek and De Goey are not the most fearful on paper do perfectly compliment each other and our balance. It is not much of a weakness.

Our challenge
I think our biggest challenge is getting our best on the field more regularly. We need Dunn, Moore and to a lesser extent Elliott to be playing fit for most of the year. I am interested to see if we will make any moves to strengthen our medical, fitness and development departments. We have removed Davoren but been very quiet otherwise.

Good post, and I agree with most of this Quicky. I could argue the toss about proposing Scharenberg instead of maybe Mayne, Wells instead of maybe Phillips, and Reid instead of maybe Mihocek, but by and large I agree.

I think one of the interesting challenges we will have will be our small forward structure. In De Geoy, Elliott, Hoskin Elliott and probably Stepheson, we have four players who are best playing as a deep forward and having the ball delivered to them in the air (rather than crumbing / gathering the ball upfield and delivering into the forwardline). I think Elliott and De Goey should be the deeper forwards (given they are deadly one on one), and so I'd like to see Hoskin Elliott develop an outside run game more than what he does at the moment so he can run and carry from upfield into the forwardline and become effective as a higher forward. Stephenson shouldn't have too much problem with this transition.

 

[jonbe54]

In fairness to Big Footy, which can indeed be a wonderland of delightfully half-baked opinion, Sier himself suggested that he was on the verge of being flung off the list last year. There were irregular and rather fleeting 'signs' of a decent player before this year, but nothing to suggest that he'd make such a statement at both VFL and AFL this season.

No argument - Sier has been a self admitted slacker in attitude to his game.

 

[Carringbush2010]

In answer to the thread title I'd say yes our list is somewhat overrated, but we are not personnel reliant like our gf opponents are. Therefore list names are not so important as how we play.

We have a game style that is difficult to beat, it suffocates the opposition for the whole game and when we win possession it tends to overwhelm. On top of that we have a lot of utility players that can change position when it suits this is also difficult for the opposition to coach against.

We don't have names the likes of gws or wc. Nor does richmond or the dogs of 16........... it's the game style that is successful.

Sure you could argue if Pendles or Sides had a decent game on the gf we win, you could also argue that if wc are missing their KP's we win. But we only played 1 good qtr of footy.............. play like we did the week before and no one beats us

In all that it is hard to argue that our midfield is overrated

 

[Carringbush2010]

Geez mate, 4th best midfield?. The same midfield that got an absolute reaming by a very average West Coast midfield in the big dance?. Even bloody Shuey carved us up and all we are doing is adding Beams. I think our midfield is very over rated.

Are you possibly underrating the wc mids? Remember this was the only team that was able to break down pressure teams - starting with their mids getting on top of their opposition.

I'm not suggesting that we have the 4th best of all time but to rate the wc mids as average is a bit of a stretch:

Yeo
Redden
Shuey

Lycett

They're no b graders and they still have the likes of Gaff and NN to come back in.

 

[nahnah]

At our best only West Coast can compete imo, I think we are as close to a lock to making a GF as any team in the past 3 years. Unless we get completely dicked with injuries for a 6th year running which is pretty possible now I think about it.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Over rating our list

or

Under rating our list

Depending on our individual bent I guess.

What really matters is if our best players play their best.

Grundy, De Goey, Pendlebury, Beams, Sidebottom, Treloar, Wells et al

Moore, Maynard, Scharenberg, Crisp, Cox, Varcoe, Sier, Greenwood, Langdon et al

Up to them.....

 

[PieNSauce]

I find it hard to believe that anybody is overrating a list which almost achieved a flag in the face of crippling injury numbers over virtually the entire season. Consider what might have been achieved with a fit list (Moore, Elliott, Dunn etc.) then add Beams and a couple of highly rated newbies and it would take awfully high praise to overrate that list IMO. I think if anything, some here seriously underrate our list because it's been hard to get it on the park for a few years. Surely 2018 was just a taste of what's possible.

 

[Horaceg]

Love myself some positivity! Let's win the flag next year Collingwood!

I take that attitude in to every season and work my way backwards as numbers merit.