Are we too Nice?

[greatwhiteshark]

Ever since the troubles at the club mid 2000's I think we have become a club of good samaritans.
I actually think while our list lacks a couple of special players we still have a list that could win a flag but we are held back by one important aspect in my view, the win at all cost attitude!
We do not have it, we want to win and look good as well, we want to be perceived as the nice boys and the nice good club.
We flew the flag last weekend for Gaff and thats all great but I am talking about that mean spirited stuff that the blokes Like Voss, Hodge etc dished out. Absolute enemies on the field, never going to help you up, will rub your head into the dirt when they tackle you, they will do whatever is required to win no matter how it looks.

What are others thoughts? Do you think we have that eye of the tiger, that absolute win at any cost mentality which is required to win?
We need some fair dinkum C..t in us and we aint got any players with it.

 

[Smeg Head]

Yeah we do lack some of that aggression and it shows against a hardened team like the Hawks away from home.
McGinnity has it, but he doesn't rate in the skills or getting a lot of the ball stakes.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

But yeah for the most part I agree, though Lycett, Hutch, Shuey, Yeo, Nelson - a few guys show good aggression consistently. I particularly think Lycett's aggression has rubbed off on Nic and he now realises he can be a consistent physical presence around the ground.

Still need a Beau Waters/Daniel Kerr style 'holy **** he's going to kill himself to get that ball' type, but I think we've taken some good steps towards controlled aggression.

 

[Lolbert]

Nelson could be that player. Not afraid to get stuck in and has a mouth on him.

 

[Suma Magic]

Thought this was a James Hird thread reading the title.

 

[Seadog]

To nice or not too nice, that is the question.

 

[Chris_6678]

Yep.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Too*

Fixed

 

[bradee]

Ever since the troubles at the club mid 2000's I think we have become a club of good samaritans.
I actually think while our list lacks a couple of special players we still have a list that could win a flag but we are held back by one important aspect in my view, the win at all cost attitude!
We do not have it, we want to win and look good as well, we want to be perceived as the nice boys and the nice good club.
We flew the flag last weekend for Gaff and thats all great but I am talking about that mean spirited stuff that the blokes Like Voss, Hodge etc dished out. Absolute enemies on the field, never going to help you up, will rub your head into the dirt when they tackle you, they will do whatever is required to win no matter how it looks.

What are others thoughts? Do you think we have that eye of the tiger, that absolute win at any cost mentality which is required to win?
We need some fair dinkum C..t in us and we aint got any players with it.

Agreed,that early 90s team had a few blokes like Lewis,Langdon,Worsfold and Wilson,that took no shit and were happy to dish some pain out to the opposition.This current team needs few blokes with a bit of mongrel in them.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

get ****ed

 

[Feeling Groovy]

We absolutely need more mongrel, directed at both the opposition and the ball. I am not talking Jonas type scenarios but we need to be willing to go in as hard as possible at the ball and man and be willing to give away a free kick if we don't quite get it right. There is no intimidation factor in our team outside our rucks.

 

[WCE_phil]

Not an issue.

We have ep2006 being a sandy freo supporter all the time and i'm just a general all round campaigner. Balances out the niceties of our board well. Oh you meant the team! Cripps, Yeo, Lycett, Nelson are all these types of players.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

The games as mental as it is physical. If your opponent is worrying about getting cleaned up (legally) then he's less likely to be able to execute the skill as well as in space. Thats why coaches are big on putting pressure on the ball carrier, if he's worrying about getting smashed in a tackle coz he playing a bunch of campaigners then he's not worrying as much about hitting targets. Been saying for years we're way too nice, because the QC investigation scared the shit outta the establishment at WC.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Acting like a campaigner on-field isn't a necessary ingredient to winning a flag.

Going hard at the ball and the opponent is. We've got guys who can be counted on to do that, but we could stand to have a few more. Hurn laying out Boak (fairly) at the opening bounce was a great sign, we need more of it from him and other senior players to set the example.

 

[Beutbrute]

I'm happy with how we play our football. Don't think we are too nice, but maybe we've got some players that go into their shells too much when the pressure is on (don't take the game on)

 

[Pat_Footy]

Ever since the troubles at the club mid 2000's I think we have become a club of good samaritans.
I actually think while our list lacks a couple of special players we still have a list that could win a flag but we are held back by one important aspect in my view, the win at all cost attitude!
We do not have it, we want to win and look good as well, we want to be perceived as the nice boys and the nice good club.
We flew the flag last weekend for Gaff and thats all great but I am talking about that mean spirited stuff that the blokes Like Voss, Hodge etc dished out. Absolute enemies on the field, never going to help you up, will rub your head into the dirt when they tackle you, they will do whatever is required to win no matter how it looks.

What are others thoughts? Do you think we have that eye of the tiger, that absolute win at any cost mentality which is required to win?
We need some fair dinkum C..t in us and we aint got any players with it.

So your point is basically that WCE are missing a Voss, Hodge type? Thanks for that in-depth analysis..... you must be a genius? I assume you are talking about quality aggressive players and not just aggressive players. Your description of aggression is an indefinable statistical quality that doesn't win you games. In actual fact, if the player isn't talented - the quality probably loses you games. Vickery and the guy who just got 6 weeks are both aggressive players and fit your description well.

However, I interpreted your post as merely WCE are missing a Voss/Hird/Buckley/Hudge type player. They aren't just aggressive players. They are generational, inspirational type players you build teams around. Every team wants one, yet most teams get the Cotchin type player.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Odd week to bring that up considering we just had a fair chunk of our team fined for a melee

 

[greatwhiteshark]

So your point is basically that WCE are missing a Voss, Hodge type? Thanks for that in-depth analysis..... you must be a genius? I assume you are talking about quality aggressive players and not just aggressive players. Your description of aggression is an indefinable statistical quality that doesn't win you games. In actual fact, if the player isn't talented - the quality probably loses you games. Vickery and the guy who just got 6 weeks are both aggressive players and fit your description well.

However, I interpreted your post as merely WCE are missing a Voss/Hird/Buckley/Hudge type player. They aren't just aggressive players. They are generational, inspirational type players you build teams around. Every team wants one, yet most teams get the Cotchin type player.

Thats the aggression I am talking about Pat, going for the man and having a crack at them!!!!

Mate we have plenty of good footballers who have no aggression, last week we saw Hurn run through Boak and that is what I am talking about. Hurn is our skipper and I have not seen him do that before. He should be a steam train when running for the ball but he isn't.
You don't have to be a superstar player to be aggressive, you just need to draw a line in the sand when you cross the white line that the opponent is the enemy and for 120 minutes friendships are thrown out the door. An attitude of no matter the game situation if its my turn and I have to go then I will go.
No one is talking king hits or dog acts which you referred to.

You obviously feel we do have this win at any cost attitude and that is why I asked what your thoughts were. I will put you down as a "Yes we have that killer instinct"

 

[RookiePick]

I'm not sure we don't have any hard at it types - Hurn, Crippa, Lycett, Wellers on his day and young Nelson is coming along

I think as much as anything it's just that none of our on ballers are of this type and when you are under the pump it's these guys that need to see ball, get ball and use ball to advantage to pull you back into it/over the line. Shuey starts looking for frees, Pridda does his thing and the rest of our on ballers are undersized or inexperienced. I think we can see that Simpson acknowledges this with the inclusion of Hutchings as a regular. We just need more grunt around the ball. I would kill for a Ziebell type at times, that flog just wants to get the footy.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Odd week to bring that up considering we just had a fair chunk of our team fined for a melee

Hahaha a melee these days is like having a coffee with your Grand parents. I would of much preferred one of our players chinned Jonas and got 3 weeks suspension and send a message to the comp to not stuff around with us.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I'm not sure we don't have any hard at it types - Hurn, Crippa, Lycett, Wellers on his day and young Nelson is coming along

I think as much as anything it's just that none of our on ballers are of this type and when you are under the pump it's these guys that need to see ball, get ball and use ball to advantage to pull you back into it/over the line. Shuey starts looking for frees, Pridda does his thing and the rest of our on ballers are undersized or inexperienced. I think we can see that Simpson acknowledges this with the inclusion of Hutchings as a regular. We just need more grunt around the ball. I would kill for a Ziebell type at times, that flog just wants to get the footy.

Agree that Lycett and Wellingham have it, JK does as well.
Not sure about Hurn though, think you would have to almost kill one of his family for him to get the slightest bit angry. Just not in his make up unfortunately. Maybe we saw a turning point with him last week that he can impact the game with his physical presence.

 

[Pat_Footy]

Thats the aggression I am talking about Pat, going for the man and having a crack at them!!!!

Mate we have plenty of good footballers who have no aggression, last week we saw Hurn run through Boak and that is what I am talking about. Hurn is our skipper and I have not seen him do that before. He should be a steam train when running for the ball but he isn't.
You don't have to be a superstar player to be aggressive, you just need to draw a line in the sand when you cross the white line that the opponent is the enemy and for 120 minutes friendships are thrown out the door. An attitude of no matter the game situation if its my turn and I have to go then I will go.
No one is talking king hits or dog acts which you referred to.

You obviously feel we do have this win at any cost attitude and that is why I asked what your thoughts were. I will put you down as a "Yes we have that killer instinct"

I see no problem as none of the WCE players are backing out of contests. You said you wanted our players to push heads in dirt and engage in those niggly acts. They frequently lead to free kicks to the opposition.

I don't know if WCE are still doing it under Simpson or not but under Worsfold - players had to justify their selfishness in giving away stupid free kicks in front of the whole playing group.

Had Boak slipped or ducked - Hurn would have been out for weeks. I liked the contest of course but the bump and aggressive tackles have been outlawed.

 

[Ochre]

Too*

Boo*

 

[MWPP]

Yep we are nice.
I'm glad we're not dirty on-field (because that would mean more suspensions/ fewer free kicks) , and I'm glad that neither Woosha nor Simpson are whingers/snipers
But I'm also glad we flew the flag on the weekend (love how NicNat forced Jonas to apologise )
I'm more peeved that we're too nice off-field eg at the trading table, jumper clash issues (bending to teams like Richmond by wearing our home guernsey in the past)

 

[MWPP]

Hahaha a melee these days is like having a coffee with your Grand parents. I would of much preferred one of our players chinned Jonas and got 3 weeks suspension and send a message to the comp to not stuff around with us.

I wouldn't. I would've been annoyed by their recklessness, and ruing having to play the Bulldogs/Crows without them.