Analysis Aussie Rules Explained - Swans Board Style

[DarkFlyer]

This thread is for those new to the AFL and interested in a discussion of the broader future of the sport. I will condense the best answers on the first post. Thanks to the mods for providing a sticky for what should be a fun thread filled with good banter provided by awesome Swans fans.


Go Bloods!

So I'm going to skip these questions to ask anyone who reads this for their perspective on the international appeal of footy and I don't mean in Tasmania or NZ. The sport is an awesome blend of the constant motion and watch-ability of soccer and the physicality of American football and rugby. I can turn a game on with no background into doping scandals or rivalries or the behind the scenes history of the sport and just enjoy watching the game. American football is so boring with constant time outs and commercials, footy is the exact opposite. The rules are simple and the play isn't over officiated (for example, the side judges just toss the ball back in if it goes out of bounds, in basketball the referees will go to the TV monitor to determine who touches it last, killing the flow of the game). In short, I am a huge sports fan, and I think footy is one of the best I've seen. That said, I barely even knew the sport existed until I went to Australia.

So, why is there next to no coverage of the AFL in America or the rest of the industrialized (<--notice the proper spelling with a "z") world? I know there was a All-Star exhibition using international rules played in New York City after the season, but the only reason I knew about it was afl.com.au; there was next to no American media coverage. Do you want to keep the sport as Australia's little gem? Or do you want the sport to grow internationally? Or do you just simply not care what the rest of the world is missing?

1: South African guy from work saw his 1st game the other week. He called it 'exciting' and like yourself liked the constant motion of player & ball.
2: Buddy copped a hiding next to nothing for his admission of mental health issues when news first came out. Wish it was different, I'd say the split was about 50/50. Very proud though of how our club handled it. It helps to have an ex-Club President who openly admitted his battle with depression years ago.
3: ESPN used to screen AFL a lot in the 90's. Fair few of USA fans found our sport that way

I think there's a few reasons it struggles overseas, I'll mention a couple:

1. The rules are almost all open to the umpires interpretation which leads to a lack of consistency. I'd assume this would make it hard for somebody that hasn't grown up with the sport to understand them.

2. It's hard to play 'exhibition' type matches anywhere in the world - particularly in the U.S - because of the size and shape of the oval. (The sport was invented to keep cricketers fit in the colder months and as such was played on cricket ovals).

3. There has never been a massive push from the AFL to expand interest internationally. There has been token efforts in the past but that's about it. They have given NZ a pseudo-attempt in recent years and one club is currently doing a fair bit of work in China but other than that there's not much happening.

Why are disposals are such an important stat, I don't count the number of times I touched the basketball during a game?

Disposals (like every other stat) are only an important stat if they back up an argument you are trying to make.
Some people will claim that they don't need stats, they can see with their own eyes how a player performed. (This is usually the case when said player has had lots of disposals and some old timer (no names) wants to argue that said player needs to p-off back to WA).

If Dangerfield is that awesome why did he go from Adelaide to Geelong? (with the notable exception of LeBron James, American sports teams tend to keep their superstars on the same team for life).

Players are drafted at 18, with teams spread all over the country, there is a a chance that some kid will sook it up if they have to be away from Mommy for too long. So players change clubs. Dangerfield is from Geelong, so he just went home.
The difference with American sports stars is that they earn more than enough to keep them wherever they end up. Each AFL club has a salary cap of $10m per yer for 40-ish players on their list. LeBron earns $10m a month by himself doesn't he? The top earners in AFL make about $1m per year, ( we signed Buddy on a $10m deal for 9 years) first year drafted players get about $70k per year for their first 2 years as a standard wage. More importantly, sportspeople in this country have very limited earning potential from endorsements. Most would get endorsements for thousands rather than the millions sportspeople earn in the US. Our very own Tippett was earning endorsements paid in a brown paper bag at his old club, somehow that became our fault... but that is a story for another day.

what is this Father/Son draft stuff? Steph Curry's dad didn't play for Golden State (rather Charlotte on the other side of the US) and I can't fathom a team having a claim to a player because their father played there. . .

For our draft, kids are permitted to be drafted to the club where their father played. The qualification is that their father must have played 100 games for the club.
Before.... clubs could use whatever draft pick they wanted (i.e. potentially get a top draft pick for well below market value, which happened quite a lot, kids rated as top 10 draft picks were drafted under the father son rules with draft pick 37 for example)
Now...the rules changed for the 2015 draft and beyond...now clubs have to "match" draft bids and pay market price for father-son draft picks. For example if another team bids their pick 2 under the new points system the club wanting to draft using father-son would have to match the bid (the points equivalent to the draft pick...each pick is given a points value, ask AlanLau to explain the maths to you).

what is really controversial about the rules? Low tackle. High tackle. Don't push in the back on a mark. Intentional hitting the ball out of boundary. Other than that, I don't seem to hear a lot of bitching about the interpretation of the rules and it's impact on that outcomes of game (match?). American sports are rampant with cries of favoritism of the officials. Maybe I'm a complete neophyte, but the officials seems largely neutral?

the rules...it's more that the interpretation can change week to week. Certain rules almost become trendy and will be implemented harshly for a few weeks before the next rule takes its' turn. Then when it gets to finals, and in particularly the Grand Final, the rulebook is almost thrown out the window and to a degree it's a bit of a free-for-all. Certain officials are definitely accused of favouritism from time to time, cou*Matt Stevic*gh but majority of the time they are impartial.

What is controversial about the rules is that they keep changing them! Or at least how they are interpreted.
Sounds like a good idea? Unfortunately this sometimes happens mid season, or during a game, sometimes interpretations change over the course of a game.
Leg End is our resident umpiring expert.

The one thing stopping the AFL as an international product is the rules. Games of AFL are largely interpreted as opposed to strictly enforced guidelines. Making the sport very difficult to escape it cultural boundaries IMO.

How many import players play in the AFL now? I think I remember a few Irishmen on the footy fields, but the NBA and baseball and international soccer all benefit from an influx of worldwide talent. Also, what is the relative interest in professional rugby as compared to the AFL in Australia?

Well as you'd probably know, Sydney had a Canadian Rugby Union convert in the name of Mike Pyke play 110 games for us. He is comfortably the biggest convert success story to date. You're spot on about Irish players...there has been quite a few due to the similarities between AFL and Gaelic football. We've seen a few American ex-college basketballers try their hand with limited success in recent times and there is 2 on AFL lists as international rookies at the moment to my knowledge as well as an ex-NFL listed player.

What is the method for determining the draft order? Sydney was successful last year and made the playoffs(?), how did they have the third pick that turned into future Swan messiah Callum Mills? In American sports there is a debate about "tanking" - intentionally making your team's final record poor to secure the best talent because the worst teams draft first. How did Sydney draft so high?

Draft order is inverse ladder position. However this broadly accurate rule now has some changes. AFL is native to the south-east and west coast of Australia. In order to grow the game in the north east it's considered essential to develop AFL footballers from this region (Rugby is the game in NSW and QLD). To this end the drafting rules allow NSW and QLD teams priority access to young talent playing in this area with the idea of regional representation for the clubs in non traditional AFL states. Previously this didn't tamper with the inverse ladder structure, but now every draft selection is set a value and although priority access remains to the clubs, they must match a "bid" (aka preliminarily drafted by some other club) with equivalent draft points. Mills is "bid on" high at pick 3, we had to cash in several picks to get this value and we take him at that pick, again due to priority access due to Mills being a NSW product. This bidding process happens live during the rest of the draft.

In your opinion, will these rules be reconsidered in the near future? Do Heeney and Mills represent an abnormal influx of talent, or is NSW catching up in terms of talent production.

Other clubs do complain and got the rules changed to what they currently are as a result. No doubt they will be revisited at some point. I wouldn't say its because Victoria is so central to Australian Sporting Culture but because Victoria is the biggest State that supports Aussie Rules. Rugby League, Rugby Union and Soccer get most of their players out of New South Wales and Queensland (with Soccer having larger numbers in Victoria as well, RL and RU just aren't played in Victoria, Western Australia and South Australia to the level Aussie Rules is in NSW and QLD)

The answer to this question is probably about AFL history. AFL started as an expansion of the VFL and Victoria plays a big part in the media and journalism surrounding the game, due to the deep roots and network surrounding the game there. And the significant representation of the total clubs being in VIC. The Victorian clubs are geographically named after inner city suburbs in Victoria and have a lot of history. The supporter groups of these clubs have broadly grown along the public transport routes over 100's of years and certain clubs have their own flavour etc, lots of romance about these golden eras dominates the media. It should be noted that during the time of the expansion of the VFL to the AFL (late 80s early 90s) The SA league (SANFL) and WA league (WAFL) were of very good strength and largely comparable in talent, the VFL just did it first and reaped the reward of owning the AFL. The AFL is three broad highways of talent directed from VIC,SA and WA. As such the rule is terribly contentious and will continue to be watered down as power brokers from WA,SA and VIC clubs seek a competitive advantage as much as anything else.

I would also suggest that the sporting culture and entertainment culture between the capital cities from those three states are largely similar. To compare that with Brisbane and Sydney is chalk and cheese in terms of AFL. The game doesn't really exist there in comparison. QLD and NSW do a pretty good job at broadly rejecting "Aussie rules" football in every shape and form. Living in a non traditional AFL state has many drawbacks concerning talent retention and that is recognised through this draft priority.

Heeney and Mills are both massive outliers in this regard. They are the only 2 top 10 draft picks from Sydney and the surrounds in the last decade, as opposed to 50-60 from Victoria. University sport is basically non-existent over here in a pathway sense. Players play for local clubs as kids and then representative clubs if they are good enough before eventually being drafted as 18+ year olds.

Heeney and Mills come from the parts of NSW that traditionally haven't produce AFL players so its certainly abnormal at this stage. There aren't any kids coming though at their level the next few years. As for NSW catching up, numbers wise in the draft yes, but no where near what the AFL States produce on mass.

How popular is university-level footy relative to the AFL? In America, university level sports area big deal.

University sport is basically non-existent over here in a pathway sense. Players play for local clubs as kids and then representative clubs if they are good enough before eventually being drafted as 18+ year olds.

University Football in Australia is a kick around with your mates. Nothing like the US

what is the relative interest in rugby compared to the AFL? Does this lead to some of the talent disparity between states?

The relative interest between Rugby League and Aussie Rules (without bringing other codes into it as thing will get far too complex then) is 50/50.

You have the New South Wales/ACT and Queensland that are the Rugby League states and Victoria, Western Australia, South Australia, Tasmania and Northern Territory that make up the AFL States. Southern NSW is where the merge between the codes takes place. As such each code is able to find the talent to fill the spots in each team.

AFL in Victoria is what Rugby is to Queensland and New South Wales. You listen to the radio in Victoria, you're more than likely to find games covering the AFL. In Queensland and New South Wales, you'll hear a Rugby game for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Australian_football_code_crowds#Attendances_by_league for average game attendance.

Rugby doesn't have more than a very minor presence in AFL states and vice-versa. But the AFL can fill 100K stadiums so it's doing a lot healthier in terms of scope, professionalism and salary. There's been some high profile rugby into AFL recruits like Karmichael Hunt and Israel Folau. Both were spectacular failures.

 

[Ticky009]

At Ticky's invitation . . .

1. Where are you from?

Beavercreek, OH, USA.

2. Why did you start supporting the Swans?

I visited Australia for vacation with my family and was convinced by a rather attractive young Australian lady on the flight over to check out an AFL game (she was a Hawthorn supporter and warned me about toothless Geelong fans.) So Easter Weekend, my 11 year old son and I braved the rainy weather and Easter Show crowds around ANZ Stadium to watch the Bloods play Essendon. I'm sure many of you remember that Sydney came out an laid an egg (not sure if that phrase translates between American and Aussie, it means they sucked). After three quarters, the Swans were losing by 34, but the sports fan in me knows never to leave a game early or you might miss a miracle. Well, that miracle happened and a Swans fan was born.

3. How long have you been supporting the Swans?

For a year to the day almost.

4. Favourite players (current)?

Buddy Franklin. I work in the mental health field in America and I appreciate that Buddy was strong enough to leave for mental health reasons without everyone going ape shit (at least this is my perspective from across the Pacific, maybe you can tell me if I'm wrong). If LeBron James did the same in America before the NBA playoffs, it would have been on the news non-stop with very little understand for the need for privacy and the importance of treating mental illness. To me, this is one of the many things you Down Under blokes get right and we in the States get wrong.

5. Favourite players (all time)?

Callum Mills. LOL.

6. Favourite Swans memories?
7. Where were you for the 2005 GF?
8. Favourite piece of Swans memorabilia that you own?


So I'm going to skip these questions to ask anyone who reads this for their perspective on the international appeal of footy and I don't mean in Tasmania or NZ. The sport is an awesome blend of the constant motion and watch-ability of soccer and the physicality of American football and rugby. I can turn a game on with no background into doping scandals or rivalries or the behind the scenes history of the sport and just enjoy watching the game. American football is so boring with constant time outs and commercials, footy is the exact opposite. The rules are simple and the play isn't over officiated (for example, the side judges just toss the ball back in if it goes out of bounds, in basketball the referees will go to the TV monitor to determine who touches it last, killing the flow of the game). In short, I am a huge sports fan, and I think footy is one of the best I've seen. That said, I barely even knew the sport existed until I went to Australia.

So, why is there next to no coverage of the AFL in America or the rest of the industrialized (<--notice the proper spelling with a "z") world? I know there was a All-Star exhibition using international rules played in New York City after the season, but the only reason I knew about it was afl.com.au; there was next to no American media coverage. Do you want to keep the sport as Australia's little gem? Or do you want the sport to grow internationally? Or do you just simply not care what the rest of the world is missing?

Anyway, thanks to those who have welcomed me. I look forward to learn a lot more about your great sport.

Go Bloods!

Welcome DF, glad you're here. I'll try and answer and maybe later RW can guide you to the best thread to post these types of questions.
1: South African guy from work saw his 1st game the other week. He called it 'exciting' and like yourself liked the constant motion of player & ball.
2: Buddy copped a hiding next to nothing for his admission of mental health issues when news first came out. Wish it was different, I'd say the split was about 50/50. Very proud though of how our club handled it. It helps to have an ex-Club President who openly admitted his battle with depression years ago.
3: ESPN used to screen AFL a lot in the 90's. Fair few of USA fans found our sport that way.

 

[CD__]

DarkFlyer I think there's a few reasons it struggles overseas, I'll mention a couple:

1. The rules are almost all open to the umpires interpretation which leads to a lack of consistency. I'd assume this would make it hard for somebody that hasn't grown up with the sport to understand them.

2. It's hard to play 'exhibition' type matches anywhere in the world - particularly in the U.S - because of the size and shape of the oval. (The sport was invented to keep cricketers fit in the colder months and as such was played on cricket ovals).

3. There has never been a massive push from the AFL to expand interest internationally. There has been token efforts in the past but that's about it. They have given NZ a pseudo-attempt in recent years and one club is currently doing a fair bit of work in China but other than that there's not much happening.

 

[Number37]

So I'm going to skip these questions to ask anyone who reads this for their perspective on the international appeal of footy and I don't mean in Tasmania or NZ. The sport is an awesome blend of the constant motion and watch-ability of soccer and the physicality of American football and rugby. I can turn a game on with no background into doping scandals or rivalries or the behind the scenes history of the sport and just enjoy watching the game. American football is so boring with constant time outs and commercials, footy is the exact opposite. The rules are simple and the play isn't over officiated (for example, the side judges just toss the ball back in if it goes out of bounds, in basketball the referees will go to the TV monitor to determine who touches it last, killing the flow of the game). In short, I am a huge sports fan, and I think footy is one of the best I've seen. That said, I barely even knew the sport existed until I went to Australia.

So, why is there next to no coverage of the AFL in America or the rest of the industrialized (<--notice the proper spelling with a "z") world? I know there was a All-Star exhibition using international rules played in New York City after the season, but the only reason I knew about it was afl.com.au; there was next to no American media coverage. Do you want to keep the sport as Australia's little gem? Or do you want the sport to grow internationally? Or do you just simply not care what the rest of the world is missing?

Anyway, thanks to those who have welcomed me. I look forward to learn a lot more about your great sport.

Go Bloods!

 

[DarkFlyer]

Exactly! I will find the time to solicit the board's opinions in a thoughtful way at some point. In my opinion, the AFL's product is better than anything in American professional sports. Watching live games is a joy in the same vein (is that a phrase used in Australia?) as the English Premier League . . . without the 0-0 draws. Scoring can be fast and furious in footy, and the play is continuous. The amount of time between a goal an the next action is 30 seconds in footy compared to 5 minutes in the NFL, that makes a huge difference in the enjoyment of the game.

I will stop telling you guys what you already know - your sport is awesome - and get into the hardcore Swans discussion. I have so much to learn about the game before I can contribute on the latter front. My current queries are stuff like 'Why are disposals are such an important stat, I don't count the number of times I touched the basketball during a game?' and 'If Dangerfield is that awesome why did he go from Adelaide to Geelong?' (with the notable exception of LeBron James, American sports teams tend to keep their superstars on the same team for life).

I'm guess just sort of giddy that I found something so entertaining in this modern world that I can't believe so few of my American peers know about or discuss. It's sort of like I'm one of the few out of people I know who use the internet, so many are missing out.

 

[DarkFlyer]

DarkFlyer I think there's a few reasons it struggles overseas, I'll mention a couple:

1. The rules are almost all open to the umpires interpretation which leads to a lack of consistency. I'd assume this would make it hard for somebody that hasn't grown up with the sport to understand them.

2. It's hard to play 'exhibition' type matches anywhere in the world - particularly in the U.S - because of the size and shape of the oval. (The sport was invented to keep cricketers fit in the colder months and as such was played on cricket ovals).

3. There has never been a massive push from the AFL to expand interest internationally. There has been token efforts in the past but that's about it. They have given NZ a pseudo-attempt in recent years and one club is currently doing a fair bit of work in China but other than that there's not much happening.

1. Have you seen American basketball? Referees are maddeningly inconsistent.

2. Excellent point. And I suppose a lack of standardized rules (how different are Irish rules?) probably hinders a wider adoption too.

3. How many import players play in the AFL now? I think I remember a few Irishmen on the footy fields, but the NBA and baseball and international soccer all benefit from an influx of worldwide talent. Also, what is the relative interest in professional rugby as compared to the AFL in Australia?

 

[Number37]

Exactly! I will find the time to solicit the board's opinions in a thoughtful way at some point. In my opinion, the AFL's product is better than anything in American professional sports. Watching live games is a joy in the same vein (is that a phrase used in Australia?) as the English Premier League . . . without the 0-0 draws. Scoring can be fast and furious in footy, and the play is continuous. The amount of time between a goal an the next action is 30 seconds in footy compared to 5 minutes in the NFL, that makes a huge difference in the enjoyment of the game.

I will stop telling you guys what you already know - your sport is awesome - and get into the hardcore Swans discussion. I have so much to learn about the game before I can contribute on the latter front. My current queries are stuff like 'Why are disposals are such an important stat, I don't count the number of times I touched the basketball during a game?' and 'If Dangerfield is that awesome why did he go from Adelaide to Geelong?' (with the notable exception of LeBron James, American sports teams tend to keep their superstars on the same team for life).

I'm guess just sort of giddy that I found something so entertaining in this modern world that I can't believe so few of my American peers know about or discuss. It's sort of like I'm one of the few out of people I know who use the internet, so many are missing out.

Disposals (like every other stat) are only an important stat if they back up an argument you are trying to make.
Some people will claim that they don't need stats, they can see with their own eyes how a player performed. (This is usually the case when said player has had lots of disposals and some old timer (no names) wants to argue that said player needs to p-off back to WA).

Players are drafted at 18, with teams spread all over the country, there is a a chance that some kid will sook it up if they have to be away from Mommy for too long. So players change clubs. Dangerfield is from Geelong, so he just went home.
The difference with American sports stars is that they earn more than enough to keep them wherever they end up. Each AFL club has a salary cap of $10m per yer for 40-ish players on their list. LeBron earns $10m a month by himself doesn't he? The top earners in AFL make about $1m per year, ( we signed Buddy on a $10m deal for 9 years) first year drafted players get about $70k per year for their first 2 years as a standard wage. More importantly, sportspeople in this country have very limited earning potential from endorsements. Most would get endorsements for thousands rather than the millions sportspeople earn in the US. Our very own Tippett was earning endorsements paid in a brown paper bag at his old club, somehow that became our fault... but that is a story for another day.

Any other questions?

 

[DarkFlyer]

Any other questions?

Do you really mean that?

 

[DarkFlyer]

Disposals (like every other stat) are only an important stat if they back up an argument you are trying to make.
Some people will claim that they don't need stats, they can see with their own eyes how a player performed. (This is usually the case when said player has had lots of disposals and some old timer (no names) wants to argue that said player needs to p-off back to WA).

Players are drafted at 18, with teams spread all over the country, there is a a chance that some kid will sook it up if they have to be away from Mommy for too long. So players change clubs. Dangerfield is from Geelong, so he just went home.
The difference with American sports stars is that they earn more than enough to keep them wherever they end up. Each AFL club has a salary cap of $10m per yer for 40-ish players on their list. LeBron earns $10m a month by himself doesn't he? The top earners in AFL make about $1m per year, ( we signed Buddy on a $10m deal for 9 years) first year drafted players get about $70k per year for their first 2 years as a standard wage. More importantly, sportspeople in this country have very limited earning potential from endorsements. Most would get endorsements for thousands rather than the millions sportspeople earn in the US. Our very own Tippett was earning endorsements paid in a brown paper bag at his old club, somehow that became our fault... but that is a story for another day.

Any other questions?

More. . .

Where does that best fit on this board? Can I have a thread to point others to in order to answer the baby-steps-into-the-AFL questions that we ignorant need?

Side note: I have a friend who is the manager for the facility where the Golden State Warriors (and awesome Aussie Andrew Bogut) play - the Oracle Arena in San Francisco - and just tonight I was extolling the virtues of your sport tonight in a phone conversation. He, a man completely tuned in to the sports world, asked "Are you ****ing with me?" when I talked about the awesomeness of your sport. Seriously, America is 99% ignorant to the AFL. I am willing to testify, but I am undereducated myself.

More queries: what is this Father/Son draft stuff? Steph Curry's dad didn't play for Golden State (rather Charlotte on the other side of the US) and I can't fathom a team having a claim to a player because their father played there. . .

 

[Number37]

Do you really mean that?

Yes.

 

[CD__]

1. Have you seen American basketball? Referees are maddeningly inconsistent.

2. Excellent point. And I suppose a lack of standardized rules (how different are Irish rules?) probably hinders a wider adoption too.

3. How many import players play in the AFL now? I think I remember a few Irishmen on the footy fields, but the NBA and baseball and international soccer all benefit from an influx of worldwide talent. Also, what is the relative interest in professional rugby as compared to the AFL in Australia?

Basketball is already an international sport though, most fans would already have somewhat of an understanding of it from a young-ish age. Irish rules are basically completely different...the sameness comes from it being a 360 degree sport and the kicking action.

Well as you'd probably know, Sydney had a Canadian Rugby Union convert in the name of Mike Pyke play 110 games for us. He is comfortably the biggest convert success story to date. You're spot on about Irish players...there has been quite a few due to the similarities between AFL and Gaelic football. We've seen a few American ex-college basketballers try their hand with limited success in recent times and there is 2 on AFL lists as international rookies at the moment to my knowledge as well as an ex-NFL listed player.

 

[Number37]

More. . .

Where does that best fit on this board? Can I have a thread to point others to in order to answer the baby-steps-into-the-AFL questions that we ignorant need?

Side note: I have a friend who is the manager for the facility where the Golden State Warriors (and awesome Aussie Andrew Bogut) play - the Oracle Arena in San Francisco - and just tonight I was extolling the virtues of your sport tonight in a phone conversation. He, a man completely tuned in to the sports world, asked "Are you ******* with me?" when I talked about the awesomeness of your sport. Seriously, America is 99% ignorant to the AFL. I am willing to testify, but I am undereducated myself.

More queries: what is this Father/Son draft stuff? Steph Curry's dad didn't play for Golden State (rather Charlotte on the other side of the US) and I can't fathom a team having a claim to a player because their father played there. . .

You could probably get one of the mods to 'sticky' a thread to the top of the our board. Create a thread and ask the mods, they are usually accommodating.

For our draft, kids are permitted to be drafted to the club where their father played. The qualification is that their father must have played 100 games for the club.
Before.... clubs could use whatever draft pick they wanted (i.e. potentially get a top draft pick for well below market value, which happened quite a lot, kids rated as top 10 draft picks were drafted under the father son rules with draft pick 37 for example)
Now...the rules changed for the 2015 draft and beyond...now clubs have to "match" draft bids and pay market price for father-son draft picks. For example if another team bids their pick 2 under the new points system the club wanting to draft using father-son would have to match the bid (the points equivalent to the draft pick...each pick is given a points value, ask AlanLau to explain the maths to you).

 

[DarkFlyer]

Basketball is already an international sport though, most fans would already have somewhat of an understanding of it from a young-ish age. Irish rules are basically completely different...the sameness comes from it being a 360 degree sport and the kicking action.

Well as you'd probably know, Sydney had a Canadian Rugby Union convert in the name of Mike Pyke play 110 games for us. He is comfortably the biggest convert success story to date. You're spot on about Irish players...there has been quite a few due to the similarities between AFL and Gaelic football. We've seen a few American ex-college basketballers try their hand with limited success in recent times and there is 2 on AFL lists as international rookies at the moment to my knowledge as well as an ex-NFL listed player.

To your first point: what is really controversial about the rules? Low tackle. High tackle. Don't push in the back on a mark. Intentional hitting the ball out of boundary. Other than that, I don't seem to hear a lot of bitching about the interpretation of the rules and it's impact on that outcomes of game (match?). American sports are rampant with cries of favoritism of the officials. Maybe I'm a complete neophyte, but the officials seems largely neutral?

To the bolded: Honestly, I'm willing to learn, but I don't know.

 

[CD__]

To your first point: what is really controversial about the rules? Low tackle. High tackle. Don't push in the back on a mark. Intentional hitting the ball out of boundary. Other than that, I don't seem to hear a lot of bitching about the interpretation of the rules and it's impact on that outcomes of game (match?). American sports are rampant with cries of favoritism of the officials. Maybe I'm a complete neophyte, but the officials seems largely neutral?

To the bolded: Honestly, I'm willing to learn, but I don't know.

RE the rules...it's more that the interpretation can change week to week. Certain rules almost become trendy and will be implemented harshly for a few weeks before the next rule takes its' turn. Then when it gets to finals, and in particularly the Grand Final, the rulebook is almost thrown out the window and to a degree it's a bit of a free-for-all. Certain officials are definitely accused of favouritism from time to time, cou*Matt Stevic*gh but majority of the time they are impartial.

 

[robbieando]

DarkFlyer I've moved your posts and the posts of the others into its own thread.

Great topic to to cover. I'll stick it at the top of the board as well.

Welcome to the board

 

[Number37]

To your first point: what is really controversial about the rules? Low tackle. High tackle. Don't push in the back on a mark. Intentional hitting the ball out of boundary. Other than that, I don't seem to hear a lot of bitching about the interpretation of the rules and it's impact on that outcomes of game (match?). American sports are rampant with cries of favoritism of the officials. Maybe I'm a complete neophyte, but the officials seems largely neutral?

To the bolded: Honestly, I'm willing to learn, but I don't know.

What is controversial about the rules is that they keep changing them! Or at least how they are interpreted.
Sounds like a good idea? Unfortunately this sometimes happens mid season, or during a game, sometimes interpretations change over the course of a game.
Leg End is our resident umpiring expert.

 

[DarkFlyer]

DarkFlyer I've moved your posts and the posts of the others into its own thread.

Great topic to to cover. I'll stick it at the top of the board as well.

Welcome to the board

Thank you!

What is the method for determining the draft order? Sydney was successful last year and made the playoffs(?), how did they have the third pick that turned into future Swan messiah Callum Mills? In American sports there is a debate about "tanking" - intentionally making your team's final record poor to secure the best talent because the worst teams draft first. How did Sydney draft so high?

 

[Dan87]

Thank you!

What is the method for determining the draft order? Sydney was successful last year and made the playoffs(?), how did they have the third pick that turned into future Swan messiah Callum Mills? In American sports there is a debate about "tanking" - intentionally making your team's final record poor to secure the best talent because the worst teams draft first. How did Sydney draft so high?

Draft order is inverse ladder position. However this broadly accurate rule now has some changes. AFL is native to the south-east and west coast of Australia. In order to grow the game in the north east it's considered essential to develop AFL footballers from this region (Rugby is the game in NSW and QLD). To this end the drafting rules allow NSW and QLD teams priority access to young talent playing in this area with the idea of regional representation for the clubs in non traditional AFL states. Previously this didn't tamper with the inverse ladder structure, but now every draft selection is set a value and although priority access remains to the clubs, they must match a "bid" (aka preliminarily drafted by some other club) with equivalent draft points. Mills is "bid on" high at pick 3, we had to cash in several picks to get this value and we take him at that pick, again due to priority access due to Mills being a NSW product. This bidding process happens live during the rest of the draft.

The one thing stopping the AFL as an international product is the rules. Games of AFL are largely interpreted as opposed to strictly enforced guidelines. Making the sport very difficult to escape it cultural boundaries IMO.

 

[DarkFlyer]

Draft order is inverse ladder position. However this broadly accurate rule now has some changes. AFL is native to the south-east and west coast of Australia. In order to grow the game in the north east it's considered essential to develop AFL footballers from this region (Rugby is the game in NSW and QLD). To this end the drafting rules allow NSW and QLD teams priority access to young talent playing in this area with the idea of regional representation for the clubs in non traditional AFL states. Previously this didn't tamper with the inverse ladder structure, but now every draft selection is set a value and although priority access remains to the clubs, they must match a "bid" (aka preliminarily drafted by some other club) with equivalent draft points. Mills is "bid on" high at pick 3, we had to cash in several picks to get this value and we take him at that pick, again due to priority access due to Mills being a NSW product. This bidding process happens live during the rest of the draft.

The one thing stopping the AFL as an international product is the rules. Games of AFL are largely interpreted as opposed to strictly enforced guidelines. Making the sport very difficult to escape it cultural boundaries IMO.

To the first: is Victoria so central to Australia sporting culture/talent that it can amply supply the multitude of Melbourne teams despite rules favoring Queensland and NSW teams? Will there be a point where this is revisited? Does any other club object to the Swans having priority to talent in the NSW region?

(On a side note: my 12 year old son and I Googled the home cities of every Australian NBA player we could think of. 99% of them where from the Melbourne area. Why?)

To the second (about rules): as an outside observer (I have watched about two dozen AFL games), I am not often confused by the call of the officials . . .or at the very least the calls don't seems particularly controversial. I think many of you are overstating the impact of the rules enforcement factor. To the untrained eye, there is less complaining by AFL players than their counterparts in the NBA and NFL.

 

[CD__]

To the first: is Victoria so central to Australia sporting culture/talent that it can amply supply the multitude of Melbourne teams despite rules favoring Queensland and NSW teams? Will there be a point where this is revisited? Does any other club object to the Swans having priority to talent in the NSW region?

(On a side note: my 12 year old son and I Googled the home cities of every Australian NBA player we could think of. 99% of them where from the Melbourne area. Why?)

To the second (about rules): as an outside observer (I have watched about two dozen AFL games), I am not often confused by the call of the officials . . .or at the very least the calls don't seems particularly controversial. I think many of you are overstating the impact of the rules enforcement factor. To the untrained eye, there is less complaining by AFL players than their counterparts in the NBA and NFL.

I might be biased...but Melbourne is the sporting hub of Australia in most measurable ways. Also, basically every club (apart from the other 3 northern clubs who also have academies) object to the Swans having priority access to the Sydney talent, only because we were able to get Heeney and Mills in consecutive years.

 

[DarkFlyer]

I might be biased...but Melbourne is the sporting hub of Australia in most measurable ways. Also, basically every club (apart from the other 3 northern clubs who also have academies) object to the Swans having priority access to the Sydney talent, only because we were able to get Heeney and Mills in consecutive years.

In your opinion, will these rules be reconsidered in the near future? Do Heeney and Mills represent an abnormal influx of talent, or is NSW catching up in terms of talent production.

How popular is university-level footy relative to the AFL? In America, university level sports area big deal.

 

[robbieando]

To the first: is Victoria so central to Australia sporting culture/talent that it can amply supply the multitude of Melbourne teams despite rules favoring Queensland and NSW teams? Will there be a point where this is revisited? Does any other club object to the Swans having priority to talent in the NSW region?

Other clubs do complain and got the rules changed to what they currently are as a result. No doubt they will be revisited at some point. I wouldn't say its because Victoria is so central to Australian Sporting Culture but because Victoria is the biggest State that supports Aussie Rules. Rugby League, Rugby Union and Soccer get most of their players out of New South Wales and Queensland (with Soccer having larger numbers in Victoria as well, RL and RU just aren't played in Victoria, Western Australia and South Australia to the level Aussie Rules is in NSW and QLD)

(On a side note: my 12 year old son and I Googled the home cities of every Australian NBA player we could think of. 99% of them where from the Melbourne area. Why?)

The Basketball set up in Victoria is the best in the country but its more luck they are from Melbourne than anywhere else. There is no reason at a junior level stopping a kid in Sydney, Brisbane or Perth from getting to the NBA if they are talented enough.

To the second (about rules): as an outside observer (I have watched about two dozen AFL games), I am not often confused by the call of the officials . . .or at the very least the calls don't seems particularly controversial. I think many of you are overstating the impact of the rules enforcement factor. To the untrained eye, there is less complaining by AFL players than their counterparts in the NBA and NFL.

The reason for less complaining is if they complain in anyway they are given a 50 meter penalty which basically moves the ball a 1/3 of the way up the ground. A technical foul and a 15 yard penalty aren't nearly as big when you think about it.

 

[Dan87]

To the first: is Victoria so central to Australia sporting culture/talent that it can amply supply the multitude of Melbourne teams despite rules favoring Queensland and NSW teams? Will there be a point where this is revisited? Does any other club object to the Swans having priority to talent in the NSW region?

(On a side note: my 12 year old son and I Googled the home cities of every Australian NBA player we could think of. 99% of them where from the Melbourne area. Why?)

To the second (about rules): as an outside observer (I have watched about two dozen AFL games), I am not often confused by the call of the officials . . .or at the very least the calls don't seems particularly controversial. I think many of you are overstating the impact of the rules enforcement factor. To the untrained eye, there is less complaining by AFL players than their counterparts in the NBA and NFL.

The answer to this question is probably about AFL history. AFL started as an expansion of the VFL and Victoria plays a big part in the media and journalism surrounding the game, due to the deep roots and network surrounding the game there. And the significant representation of the total clubs being in VIC. The Victorian clubs are geographically named after inner city suburbs in Victoria and have a lot of history. The supporter groups of these clubs have broadly grown along the public transport routes over 100's of years and certain clubs have their own flavour etc, lots of romance about these golden eras dominates the media. It should be noted that during the time of the expansion of the VFL to the AFL (late 80s early 90s) The SA league (SANFL) and WA league (WAFL) were of very good strength and largely comparable in talent, the VFL just did it first and reaped the reward of owning the AFL. The AFL is three broad highways of talent directed from VIC,SA and WA. As such the rule is terribly contentious and will continue to be watered down as power brokers from WA,SA and VIC clubs seek a competitive advantage as much as anything else.

I would also suggest that the sporting culture and entertainment culture between the capital cities from those three states are largely similar. To compare that with Brisbane and Sydney is chalk and cheese in terms of AFL. The game doesn't really exist there in comparison. QLD and NSW do a pretty good job at broadly rejecting "Aussie rules" football in every shape and form. Living in a non traditional AFL state has many drawbacks concerning talent retention and that is recognised through this draft priority.

 

[CD__]

In your opinion, will these rules be reconsidered in the near future? Do Heeney and Mills represent an abnormal influx of talent, or is NSW catching up in terms of talent production.

How popular is university-level footy relative to the AFL? In America, university level sports area big deal.

Heeney and Mills are both massive outliers in this regard. They are the only 2 top 10 draft picks from Sydney and the surrounds in the last decade, as opposed to 50-60 from Victoria. University sport is basically non-existent over here in a pathway sense. Players play for local clubs as kids and then representative clubs if they are good enough before eventually being drafted as 18+ year olds.

 

[robbieando]

In your opinion, will these rules be reconsidered in the near future? Do Heeney and Mills represent an abnormal influx of talent, or is NSW catching up in terms of talent production.

Heeney and Mills come from the parts of NSW that traditionally haven't produce AFL players so its certainly abnormal at this stage. There aren't any kids coming though at their level the next few years. As for NSW catching up, numbers wise in the draft yes, but no where near what the AFL States produce on mass.

How popular is university-level footy relative to the AFL? In America, university level sports area big deal.

University Football in Australia is a kick around with your mates. Nothing like the US