Club History Before the Crows, there was the Redlegs

[Ford Fairlane]

Money and eyeballs. It is the 6th biggest city in Australia.

As you say, follow the money

 

[SgtSchulz]

In regards to how the VFL expansion should have gone.

1982 - Sydney Kangaroos (Light blue is the colour of NSW, Australia's most famous animal as the moniker of its most famous city).
1985 - Port Adelaide + Norwood (1984 SANFL Grand Final was between these two clubs).
1987 - Perth City Swans (South Melbourne) + Fremantle United (Merger of South and East).
1997 - Brisbane Lions (Fitzroy, no Bears rubbish) + Gold Coast Sharks (Renamed Southport).
2011 - West Sydney + Tasmania "Tassie Devils"

Victorian Clubs

• North Melbourne -> Sydney
• South Melbourne -> Perth (Read about the 1933 VFL Premiership)
• Fitzroy -> Brisbane

 

[GremioPower]

Money and eyeballs. It is the 6th biggest city in Australia.

Backfired, didn't it?!

 

[Steve Dore]

... 1985 - Port Adelaide + Norwood ...

If this happened I would have been at Alberton with my torch

 

[Steve Dore]

Why did AFL choose Gold Coast? Because of Port?

Not sure what you mean by this question. Are you asking why the AFL chose to create a new franchise, the Gold Coast Suns, rather than bring an established club, Southport Sharks, into the AFL?

 

[Power Girl]

View attachment 389562

Polyester Legs... so shiny

Did some unzip a little bit for the unashamed cleavage look?

 

[GremioPower]

Not sure what you mean by this question. Are you asking why the AFL chose to create a new franchise, the Gold Coast Suns, rather than bring an established club, Southport Sharks, into the AFL?

Yes.

 

[SgtSchulz]

If this happened I would have been at Alberton with my torch

View attachment 389636

I just mean they entered at the same time.

 

[GremioPower]

If this happened I would have been at Alberton with my torch

View attachment 389636

One club with no fan base, and two fan bases with no club...

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Backfired, didn't it?!

The Gold Coast has had so many teams in national competitions fold and both the Titans in NRL and Suns in the AFL are struggling big time and have for a few years. It is the tourism capital of Australia so it has a bit of itinerant population, less so these days. The GC has a population of about 600,000 and you can double that at peak tourism season.

I have written many times in the last 8 year or so that the AFL would have to subsidies the Gold Cost Suns for 10-15 years and the GWS for 20-25 years. Those subsidies continue because the teams are made up teams and in Rugby League Heart land but the time frames may have to be swapped around.

Southport FC which has been mentioned above around 2002 started making noises they want to put a team in the AFL. Southport is about 40 years old and they have poker/slot machines facilities and have had so since the 1980's. I lived on the Gold Coast in 2003 and they made it clear that they had $20 million in the bank and were ready to pay for an AFL licence, $4 million and set up facilities. But the AFL rejected that because 1) at the time they weren't ready to expand and 2) they knew Southport aren't liked on the GC because they can buy all the good players from the other clubs as well as from interstate. The AFL wanted a team all the GC would get behind. They have always planned for the long term but will only subsidies for so long.

I went to one of their home game in early June when I was doing work for my sister on the GC. There was only 12,000 there but about 2,000 would have been u/15 and most of that number u/10. They have to ride out the first 10-15 years.

 

[_VXV]

Much like Norwood FC.

When did this place become the Algonquin Round Table?

 

[Steve Dore]

When did this place become the Algonquin Round Table?

As Dorothy Parker said, you can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.

 

[Steve Dore]

Yes.

OK, ignore the posts about location and size of the city of the Gold Coast then.

RussellEbertHandball's post above is a good answer to your question.

 

[Established1870]

1982 - Sydney Kangaroos (Light blue is the colour of NSW, Australia's most famous animal as the moniker of its most famous city).

Nah SM were in a huge financial shit hole when they relocated. NM weren't. As it is, I can't imagine a Sydney Football Club as anything but the Swans. North would only make sense as a FNQ/NT club because if they keep the name they might keep some of the Vic supporters.

1985 - Port Adelaide + Norwood (1984 SANFL Grand Final was between these two clubs).
1987 - Perth City Swans (South Melbourne) + Fremantle United (Merger of South and East).
1997 - Brisbane Lions (Fitzroy, no Bears rubbish) + Gold Coast Sharks (Renamed Southport).

Agree with that but not the order. It should be 1 club from SA (us) and one club from WA (I'm all in favour of WCE still existing in this scenario). Freo and Norwood come 2 years later after everything is off the ground. Fitzroy relocate to the Brisbane in '92 and GC Sharks come in 3-4 years later.


In alphabetical order this would be the new AFL ladder if I was the decision maker back then:

1) Brisbane (relocated Fitzroy)
2) Canberra (relocated Vic minnows)
3) Carlton
4) Collingwood
5) Essendon
6) Fremantle (would still try for something docks related. Seamen?)
7) Geelong (2nd AR club but were broke in the 80's)
8) Gold Coast Sharks (Southport renamed)
9) Hawthorn (still not fully sure but they were successful when this would've happened)
10) Melbourne (first AR club/need a club called Melbourne in a national comp)
11) Norwood
12) Port Adelaide
13) Richmond
14) Sydney Swans (relocated SM)
15) Tasmania
16) West Coast Eagles/Perth whatever

Clubs in limbo:

Norf (ideal for Canberra relocation)
St Kilda (bye bye 27 winners of the wooden spoon/hello New Zealand Saints)
Footscray (Western Sydney Bulldogs?)

2011 - West Sydney + Tasmania "Tassie Devils"

I'm alright with that although Tassie could come in earlier depending on if we have an even or odd number of clubs in the comp.

Reading through history, a relocated Footscray/St Kilda/NM being put into Canberra in the 90's would've had a fair amount of traction from all the things I've seen on that with the way League and Union were back then. I'll leave that one to you and REH if it would've been viable.

 

[Established1870]

Southport FC which has been mentioned above around 2002 started making noises they want to put a team in the AFL. Southport is about 40 years old and they have poker/slot machines facilities and have had so since the 1980's. I lived on the Gold Coast in 2003 and they made it clear that they had $20 million in the bank and were ready to pay for an AFL licence, $4 million and set up facilities. But the AFL rejected that because 1) at the time they weren't ready to expand and 2) they knew Southport aren't liked on the GC because they can buy all the good players from the other clubs as well as from interstate. The AFL wanted a team all the GC would get behind. They have always planned for the long term but will only subsidies for so long.

I went to one of their home game in early June when I was doing work for my sister on the GC. There was only 12,000 there but about 2,000 would have been u/15 and most of that number u/10. They have to ride out the first 10-15 years.

I was in GC at the end of their first year and the support for the Suns was there in spades. Even south towards Tweeds where I stayed, people were all over it. They only need to win games to get people to show up. The calls from people who say they can't work are insular w***er ****wits who don't have a clue. GWS is a a claim for legitimate criticism but GC will work.

Southport taking on the GC mantle would've worked for a variety of reasons and I know they aren't the most popular but they had the initial supporter base to not be a flop, the structure a proper club would need, money behind them if they needed it and a history of success and utter domination. A huge missed opportunity to not have them as the GC Sharks by the AFL.

 

[Coobk001]

In regards to how the VFL expansion should have gone.

1982 - Sydney Kangaroos (Light blue is the colour of NSW, Australia's most famous animal as the moniker of its most famous city).
1985 - Port Adelaide + Norwood (1984 SANFL Grand Final was between these two clubs).
1987 - Perth City Swans (South Melbourne) + Fremantle United (Merger of South and East).
1997 - Brisbane Lions (Fitzroy, no Bears rubbish) + Gold Coast Sharks (Renamed Southport).
2011 - West Sydney + Tasmania "Tassie Devils"

Victorian Clubs

• North Melbourne -> Sydney
• South Melbourne -> Perth (Read about the 1933 VFL Premiership)
• Fitzroy -> Brisbane

Can't argue with that logic. Probably just the Swans V Kangaroos would be the only issue. And the timings, as obviously the Kangas are in trouble now, but Geelong were almost dead in 89, and Melb & the Hawks nearly merging, so hard to pick them at that time to move.

Only issue I have is that I do wish we had tried to expand into NZ. I know it would be a serious drain on resources of the AFl, but if we could get it going in say Auckland, with 15-20k regularly attending it would be massive for the growth of the game. Obviously a pipe dream though as they're so heavily ingrained in Rugby

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Did some unzip a little bit for the unashamed cleavage look?

There were a few Port players *cough*NortherCartsGeorge*cough* who delighted in ripping the guernseys apart as quickly as possible.

I think Matty Primus paid team mates to rip his open.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

In regards to how the VFL expansion should have gone.

1982 - Sydney Kangaroos (Light blue is the colour of NSW, Australia's most famous animal as the moniker of its most famous city).
1985 - Port Adelaide + Norwood (1984 SANFL Grand Final was between these two clubs).
1987 - Perth City Swans (South Melbourne) + Fremantle United (Merger of South and East).
1997 - Brisbane Lions (Fitzroy, no Bears rubbish) + Gold Coast Sharks (Renamed Southport).
2011 - West Sydney + Tasmania "Tassie Devils"

Victorian Clubs

• North Melbourne -> Sydney
• South Melbourne -> Perth (Read about the 1933 VFL Premiership)
• Fitzroy -> Brisbane

How could you justify moving North Melbourne in 1982? They were premiers in 1975 and 1977, grand finalist in 1974, 1976 and 1978, and played finals 7 consecutive years prior to 1982.

South Melbourne were in the bomb shelter.

 

[Steve Dore]

There were a few Port players *cough*NortherCartsGeorge*cough* who delighted in ripping the guernseys apart as quickly as possible.

I think Matty Primus paid team mates to rip his open.

OT but Mrs Whafie was at a seminar at the Lakes Resort one afternoon back when Matty was an assistant coach at Ports. The seminar was in one of the lake front rooms and in the middle of a rather serious presentation a shirtless Matty jogged past along the lake front path. Apparently there weren't to many of the mostly female audience watching the presentation.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Nah SM were in a huge financial shit hole when they relocated. NM weren't. As it is, I can't imagine a Sydney Football Club as anything but the Swans. North would only make sense as a FNQ/NT club because if they keep the name they might keep some of the Vic supporters.



Agree with that but not the order. It should be 1 club from SA (us) and one club from WA (I'm all in favour of WCE still existing in this scenario). Freo and Norwood come 2 years later after everything is off the ground. Fitzroy relocate to the Brisbane in '92 and GC Sharks come in 3-4 years later.


In alphabetical order this would be the new AFL ladder if I was the decision maker back then:

1) Brisbane (relocated Fitzroy)
2) Canberra (relocated Vic minnows)
3) Carlton
4) Collingwood
5) Essendon
6) Fremantle (would still try for something docks related. Seamen?)
7) Geelong (2nd AR club but were broke in the 80's)
8) Gold Coast Sharks (Southport renamed)
9) Hawthorn (still not fully sure but they were successful when this would've happened)
10) Melbourne (first AR club/need a club called Melbourne in a national comp)
11) Norwood
12) Port Adelaide
13) Richmond
14) Sydney Swans (relocated SM)
15) Tasmania
16) West Coast Eagles/Perth whatever

Clubs in limbo:

Norf (ideal for Canberra relocation)
St Kilda (bye bye 27 winners of the wooden spoon/hello New Zealand Saints)
Footscray (Western Sydney Bulldogs?)



I'm alright with that although Tassie could come in earlier depending on if we have an even or odd number of clubs in the comp.

Reading through history, a relocated Footscray/St Kilda/NM being put into Canberra in the 90's would've had a fair amount of traction from all the things I've seen on that with the way League and Union were back then. I'll leave that one to you and REH if it would've been viable.

If pay TV was introduced into Oz in 1984 and not 1994 who knows what could have been viable.

The other thing you guys forget is that Australia went thru boom and bust throughout the 1980's. The second oil crisis of 1979 effected the early 80's with an official recession in 1982, some boom years in 84,85,86, the stock market crash world wide in October 87, central banks pumping money into the economies which saw money flee to property which end up seeing 17-19% interest rates, double digit inflation double digit unemployment and the recession we had to have in late 1990 and its effects lingered for 2 or 3 years. We had 2 non competitive airlines who didnt offer many cheap flights. You cant really assess how things would have worked through the prism of 2017 and 26 consecutive years of economic growth in Oz.

Pay TV is critical in assessing what could have been. ESPN in US started in 1980 and had filler minor sports rights until about 1987 when it started getting college football and college basketball and decent major league baseball rights, as a business it started making money and then got into the other big professional sports and had to pay the big bucks to beat Free TV to the rights and natural competition for the TV/media rights have driven them up since. (Its why around 1985,86,87 Aussie Rules had a bit of a decent following in North American because they would put on the VFL game on at 11pm, think it was a Tuesday night and the night owls would watch it and became curious about the funny little blokes with white hats and flags and sticking their fingers out. When I lived in North America for a year in 1988-89 I had hundred of people in both Canada and USA ask me about the game and they would ask me in this order about the goal umpires, high marks and tight shorts. By the early 1990's they had so much content AFL was moved to 4am time slot and then onto ESPN 2 and then ESPN 3 at 4am)

Same in the UK pay TV started around 1987, they a 24 hour sports channel but until they paid the big bucks in 1992 for the new Premier League they did poorly and Pay TV changed the sports rights market in the UK.

Same for AFL. The game didnt go full time until 2000 ( it was almost there in 1999 but not quiet) when the AFL told clubs they had to go full time, the AFL went and borrowed money, increased the distribution to the clubs, increased the salary cap by 29% in 1999, then 17% and then 10% made a combined $25mil loss over 3 years 1999-01 in anticipation that by the end of 2000 there would be a massive TV offer that 7 probably weren't going to match and it came at Christmas 2000, and 7 spent 2001 broadcasting the footy knowing they had lost the 2002-06 rights.

 

[Power Girl]

There were a few Port players *cough*NortherCartsGeorge*cough* who delighted in ripping the guernseys apart as quickly as possible.

I think Matty Primus paid team mates to rip his open.

wipes up drool

 

[raptalia]

When you think about it, as an AFL feeder club, Norwood supporters hate being called that, we have not had that much out of Norwood over the years. Tom Jonas and Roger James are probably the standouts over a twenty year period. On the other hand we have taken a few spuds like Phillips, Daniels, Minson and Lower but that is possibly our fault for not picking a better nursery. What makes it worse is when you think of names like Thompson, Enright, Johncock, Pickett, Lycett who we could have picked up from a certain working class club.

 

[*PAF]

Reading about Port's History, SANFL was dominated by two teams: Port and Norwood. What has happened to the Redlegs? Do they have a strong fan base? Did they lose the train of History or they could become a third SA's AFL team? Can Adelaide support three AFL teams?

Norwood's History intrigued me...

This is a vuew from a not so long Port.
supporter.
Well been following Port for a few decades now, but not being from Adelaide there is no family history like many on here.

When I firat came to Adelaide in the late 70s there were two arrogant type of supporters. Port and Norwood. That is the good sporting type of arrogance not as in bad arrogance.
Barcellona Real Madrid, Man U , Liverpool, Celtic Rangers type etc.

That creates a healthy rivalry and IMO it is a pity it didn't go on in the AFL era.

The rivalry now is a two horse town type and not so much from a we will beat anyone anytime type attitude. Hopefully in time that will change. I certainly hope will go back to the old style as it still had it the moment we joined and Jack was coaching.

Wrt having 3 teams I cannot see it happen any time soon. IMO that does not have much to do with spectator numbers as what really hurt us wasn't so much the low crowd figures but the ability to attract good sponsors after the GFC.

The Crows were lucky that they had a long term sponsor whereas we lost ours just before the GFC hit and struggled to find a replacement until recently. The China push is IMO something we are doing to try and increase our options incase something similar was to happen again.

I am not sure SA has the ability to attract 3 sponsors with the ability to pay the required $ to carry teams. The costs to run a team nowadays are a lot higher than they were during state league days, and that is an understatement.

The dividends teams get from TV rights etc are only enough to cover what we have now and the main reason behind the AFL wanting to expand to non traditionally footy states.
Increase that to European sovcer levels and all of a sudden we have a differwnt ball game.

 

[SgtSchulz]

How could you justify moving North Melbourne in 1982? They were premiers in 1975 and 1977, grand finalist in 1974, 1976 and 1978, and played finals 7 consecutive years prior to 1982.

South Melbourne were in the bomb shelter.

I just really don't like North.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

How could you justify moving North Melbourne in 1982? They were premiers in 1975 and 1977, grand finalist in 1974, 1976 and 1978, and played finals 7 consecutive years prior to 1982.

South Melbourne were in the bomb shelter.

Yeah that makes no sense, same as the push at the of 2007 season to get North to move to the GC.

South Melbourne played in the 1945 bloodbath grand final and only played 1 final in 1970, before they were moved to Sydney.

In 2007 when the AFL accelerated their 2006 Next Generation Strategy to have a team in both GC and western Sydney by the 2015, they pushed North Melbourne to move there but they had won the 1996 and 1999 premierships ie in 95% of their supporter bases living memory, made the 98 GF, 99 PF and had just lost the PF in 2007.